CV75 Posted May 7, 2017 Posted May 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Bobbieaware said: No, but that t is one of the definitions. I guess you don't approve of Christ's teaching method because his approach often made people feel either angry or ashamed. The same with "pride" -- there are scriptural, dictionary, and worldly definitions. Pride is a very misunderstood sin, and many are sinning in ignorance. (See Mosiah 3:11; 3 Ne. 6:18.) In the scriptures there is no such thing as righteous pride—it is always considered a sin. Therefore, no matter how the world uses the term, we must understand how God uses the term so we can understand the language of holy writ and profit thereby. (See 2 Ne. 4:15; Mosiah 1:3–7; Alma 5:61.) https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1989/04/beware-of-pride?lang=eng 2 hours ago, california boy said: So your assertion is that most people would use the Book of Mormon definition of shame? When discussing spiritual concepts (as Elder Christofferson is doing), yes, of course.
Bobbieaware Posted May 7, 2017 Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, CV75 said: The same with "pride" -- there are scriptural, dictionary, and worldly definitions. Pride is a very misunderstood sin, and many are sinning in ignorance. (See Mosiah 3:11; 3 Ne. 6:18.) In the scriptures there is no such thing as righteous pride—it is always considered a sin. Therefore, no matter how the world uses the term, we must understand how God uses the term so we can understand the language of holy writ and profit thereby. (See 2 Ne. 4:15; Mosiah 1:3–7; Alma 5:61.) https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1989/04/beware-of-pride?lang=eng When discussing spiritual concepts (as Elder Christofferson is doing), yes, of course. Just realized the Biblical expression that speaks of being ""well pleased" in another's accomplishments is pretty much the modern equivalent of, for example. a father being proud of his son. Edited May 7, 2017 by Bobbieaware
Teancum Posted May 7, 2017 Posted May 7, 2017 On 5/3/2017 at 5:22 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said: I have noticed over many years, that to those who do not believe in God, or to those who have no Faith, seem harmed by those who do. It takes on the form of threads that seek to belittle the believing, or "drive by posts", for those who still have faith or testimonies of the Church. Here of course the focus is on belief and faith in God and in the Mormon Church. But on other websites it is a constant, effort, anger, or "full court press" to convince others...or lead others into unbelief. Non-believers, and those who have left or are losing faith in the Church, seem to need a reinforcement that comes through their efforts to plant the "seeds of doubt" in those who still believe. It is not enough that they no longer believe, they seek to swell their ranks in an effort to have others feel the sense of loss they are experiencing. Sometimes they return, or when invited back begin by being polite, and happy, "at peace" (if you will), only to get frustrated when their comments are not received as they might hope. Then it turns to silly jokes about those who still mount a defense of the Church, then more direct barbs, or being less polite and then anger. At this point, (as many have put it) that "they just can't go down this road again" (too paraphrase) or end up being limited or banned again. I am speaking of many forums where believers and atheists debate, but here it takes on the form of God and The Church, as on other forums, it is only about belief vs unbelief. On this site (obviously) it is about both atheists and those who have left the LDS Church, since one can leave the Church and still believe in God. By the way, everything I listed in this second paragraph is a two way street, as many if not most like to have their feeling reinforced. But the common thread or this thread is to ask why the unbelieving seemed harmed (hurt) by those who believe in God, for the atheists, and for those who have left or losing faith in the Church, by those who remain faithful? I am sure so will say they are not hurt, but so often their threads and posts suggest people who are hurting. I would love to hear from all who have thoughts on this topic. There are so many fallacious assumptions in this post it is really not worth the time it would take to respond to it. But I will ask, why is it so painful for those who continue live their life by faith to understand that good and honest people who once lived that way may have found a different and better path? Why do those of faith need to demonize and marginalize those who may have been active LDS participants at one point but for honest and reasonable positions no longer do? Why is it ok for people of faith to try to "save" those who have lost "faith" but not ok for those in a non faithful place to try to persuade those of faith that perhaps there is a better way to love life? 1
Guest Posted May 8, 2017 Posted May 8, 2017 5 hours ago, Teancum said: There are so many fallacious assumptions in this post it is really not worth the time it would take to respond to it. But I will ask, why is it so painful for those who continue live their life by faith to understand that good and honest people who once lived that way may have found a different and better path? Why do those of faith need to demonize and marginalize those who may have been active LDS participants at one point but for honest and reasonable positions no longer do? Why is it ok for people of faith to try to "save" those who have lost "faith" but not ok for those in a non faithful place to try to persuade those of faith that perhaps there is a better way to love life? I was listing the many examples of debates that I have witnessed, or been a part of on various websites over decades. As to your response, since you quoted the entire OP, and the fact that you took the time, anyway...tell me where I or anyone marginalized anyone in this thread? I know of no post where anyone was "demonized".
probablyHagoth7 Posted May 9, 2017 Posted May 9, 2017 On 5/4/2017 at 9:59 AM, JulieM said: Why do people mock and belittle those who no longer believe? I think it's much for the same reasons. Both sides do this here (mock and belittle). Yep. And the bitter outcome from such unproductive interaction is likely why Nephites honored a law that believers must stop doing that.
Teancum Posted May 9, 2017 Posted May 9, 2017 On 5/7/2017 at 10:24 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said: I was listing the many examples of debates that I have witnessed, or been a part of on various websites over decades. As to your response, since you quoted the entire OP, and the fact that you took the time, anyway...tell me where I or anyone marginalized anyone in this thread? I know of no post where anyone was "demonized". I was speaking in general and not about just this thread.
Guest Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Teancum said: I was speaking in general and not about just this thread. Fair enough...
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