Seven wives or one? Did Joseph lie?

[Calm]

From Mormon Enigma, again dictation...I may get interrupted by grandkids wanting to read books and play with puppets in bed, so if it looks half finished, it is and I will finish it later:

pg 139  there is quite a bit earlier about the teaching and marriage, focusing on the Emma relationship change...

" The two sisters did not state how they reconcile their divided loyalties between Joseph and Emma.  Emily's appreciation for Emma is apparent in her writings one day Emma said as we have been to so many parties we are to have one and invite the young people in to the home in return of course this please that's very much but the young women would find the problems over there secret marriages would even wrote their friendship with Emma."

pg 142-144  

 For two months from March to May Joseph appears to have talked with Emma about plural marriage he apparently used the rides together to teach her the necessity of the endowment and sealing.  there is no evidence that she ever opposed him on any doctrine but plural marriage convinced that it was necessary for her salvation and essential to their continued relationship she may have decided to compromise with Joseph in May 1843 she finally agreed to give Joseph otherwise if she could choose any of Joseph otherwise by now numbered at least 16 would have been more comfortable if they had had Emma's approval and I chose the two sets of sisters then living in her house Emily and Eliza Partridge and Sarah and Maria Lawrence.

 Joseph had finally converted Emma to plural marriage but not so fully that he dared tell her get married the partridge sisters two months earlier Emily said that "to save family trouble brother Joseph thought it best to have another ceremony perform… [Emma] had her feelings and so we thought there was no use in saying anything about it so long as she has chosen us herself." Emily also remembered that Emma " helped explain the principles to us."

skip a paragraph

 On May 23, 1843 Emma watched Judge James Adams a high priest in the church who is visiting from Springfield,  Mary Joseph to Emily analyze a Partridge in her home Emily wrote " we did not make much trouble but were sealed in her presence" she noted "Emma was present she gave her free and full consent ."

 Emma had made the sacrifice and within five days she had her reward on a cold rainy day May 28, 1843 Emma was sealed to Joseph for time and all eternity on the same day she was the first woman admitted to the Prayer Circle, Joseph would initiate her into the endowment sometime before the early autumn of that year.

 Emma's capitulation however was only momentary Emily wrote that "Emma seem to feel well until the ceremony was over when almost before she could draw a second breath she turned and will was more better in her feelings than ever before if possible before the day was over she turned around or repented what she had done and get Joseph up till very late in the night talking to him" understandably Emily and Eliza whose marriages  sanctioned one moment and disapproved the next had feelings of their own "she had as it were bound us to the ship and carried us to mid ocean then threw us over board to sink or swim as the case might be"

 William Clayton's diary entry for that same day explains why Emma was angry Joseph told Clayton that he "had had a little trouble with sister Emma" he had been with Eliza Partridge in an upstairs room when he heard someone on the stairs and quickly shut the door "not knowing who it was and held it Emma came to the door and called Eliza four times and tried  to force open the door President Smith opened it and told her the cost etc. she seemed much irritated and "why would Joseph have held the door until Emma called Eliza partridges name four times did Emma believe that Joseph And Eliza were hiding something from her Emily remember that Emma "kept a close watch on us if we were missing for a few minutes and Joseph was not at home the house was searched from top to bottom and from one end to the other and if we were not found the neighborhood was searched until we were found"

 Emma was not successful in keeping Joseph from meeting with his wives.  Emily Partridge would one day testify under oath that she "roomed" with Joseph on the night of her second marriage to him while Emma she believed was in the house at the time. she also testified that she had "slept with him" between her first marriage and the second ceremony 

skipped several paragraphs I may go back later 

 Remembering this difficult year Emily Patridge gave some set insights into Emma's situation as well as her own "she often made things very unpleasant but I have nothing in my heart towards her but pity. I know it was hard for Emma and any woman to enter plural marriage in those days and I do not know as anyone would have done any better than Emma did under the circumstances I think Emma always regretted having any hand in getting us into such trying circumstances but she need not to blame herself for that in the least for it would've been the same with or without her consent and I have never repented the act that made me a plural wife...of Joseph Smith and bound me to him what time and All eternity"

skipping to page 170

 Emily partridge was the only player wife we counted the events she said that interviews with Joseph her sister her self and Emma occur frequently "she sent for us one day to come to her room Joseph was present looking like a martyr Emma said some very hard things Joseph should give us up or blood would flow she would rather her blood would run pure then be poluted in this manner" Emily did not say precisely that Emma threatened suicide  but perhaps Joseph's fear that Emma had reached the point of taking such a drastic step prompted this final confrontation Emily "felt indignant towards Joseph for submitting to Emma....his countenance was the perfect picture of despair and "Emily wrote "[Emma]insisted that we should promise  to break up our bracket marriage racket covenants that we had made before God Joseph asked her if we made her the promise she required if she would cease to trouble us and not persist in our marrying someone else she made the promise just came to us and should cans with us and the understanding was it always ended between us I for one but to keep this promise I was forced to make."

 The young women went downstairs soon Joseph followed find an Emily alone he asked how do you feel Emily "I feel as anyone would under the circumstances" "you know my hands are tied and "Joseph responded Emily said you looked as if he was he would "sink into the earth and "her "heart was melted" and her anger left but before she had time to speak Joseph was gone.  Emma entered as he went out.

 Emily what did Joseph say to you" she asked "he asked me how I felt" "you might as well tell me" Emma said "I am determined that ?a stop she'll be put? to these things and I want you to tell me what he says to you" "I shall not tell you" Emily retorted "he can say what he pleases to me and I shall not report it to you it has been mischief enough made by doing that.   I am sick of these things as you can be." 

Emily did not know how her words ?might have affected? Emma but reported [ I ] learned afterwards that she gloried in my spunk."

 The situation became intolerable for both Emma and the girls Emily stated "Emma could not rest till she had got us out of the house and then she was not satisfied but wanted us to leave the city she offered to give us money to pay our expenses if we would go we can so to Joseph he said we might make a visit to some of our relatives who are living at the river two or 300 miles so we agreed to go and she gave us $10 Joseph said it was insufficient and for us not to go so we gave it up and return the money to Emma."

 Emily indicated the Joseph found her a place quote with the respectable family "although the Lord sisters probably let the mansion at the same time Emily sent it in her history it's Sarah and Maria received less severe treatment from Emma.

skipping to page 309

 Emily partridge helps express the sentiments of many who knew Emma what she wrote in 1883 "after this many years I can truly say; poor Emma, she could not sample of me but she was a good woman and I never wish to stand in her way of happiness and exultation. I hope the Lord will be merciful to her, and I  Believe he will. It is an awful thought to contemplate misery of a human being. If the Lord will, my heart says let Emma come up and stand in her place. Perhaps she has done no worse than any of us would have done in her place. Let the  Lord be the judge. "

Will fix punctuation later.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Calm

[Tacenda]

22 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

If you believe Joseph made the whole thing up then you could say Joseph "used the Law of Sarah".
If you believe D&C 132 is the Lord speaking then the Law of Sarah is NOT about having children.

I thought you thought it was about having children, why would you have recently commented that you want it proven that Joseph had children from polygamy? Also, in the BoM it states that the only way polygamy is to be allowed is if God needed to have seed raised up.

Jacob 2:24-29 states:

24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.

26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.

27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.

Critics of the Book of Mormon generally refrain from citing the very next verse:

30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things. (Jacob 2:30).

The Book of Mormon makes it clear that the Lord may, under some circumstances, command the practice of plural marriage. As one member of the Church explained:

Jacob 2:30 is the key verse for understanding why Mormons believe that Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and other nineteenth-century Mormons were justified in their practice of polygamy, but that this is the exception to the Lord's law, not the rule.... Mormons believe that the period when polygamy was publicly sanctioned (1852–1890)—and the longer period in which it was privately approved (the early 1830s to 1904)—were exceptions to God's basic law that Jacob spelled out in verse 27.[1]

Edited March 11, 2017 by Tacenda

[JLHPROF]

8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I thought you thought it was about having children, why would you have recently commented that you want it proven that Joseph had children from polygamy? Also, in the BoM it states that the only way polygamy is to be allowed is if God needed to have seed raised up.

Marriage in general is about having children.
Doesn't make it the only aspect of the marriage covenant.

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

It reads as her trying to marry them off to someone else.  Whether she saw that as ending the marriage or she was simply concerned there be no more relationship during mortality, I can't tell.

From my reading, I could have read more into it, Emma wanted the Partridge sisters to be free of marriage. I have a feeling that she may have felt guilt that they had consumated their marriage to Joseph (maybe it was only Emily). I think she may have felt complicit. They were very young when she and Joseph had met them and IMO I feel Emma deep down felt it to be wrong. She seems to have been the most upset when Emily spent the night with Joseph. 

ETA: Thanks to Calm and her research I c/p an excerpt from it. Emily:  "I think Emma always regretted having any hand in getting us into such trying circumstances but she need not to blame herself for that in the least for it would've been the same with or without her consent and I have never repented the act that made me a plural wife...of Joseph Smith and bound me to him what time and All eternity"

Edited March 11, 2017 by Tacenda

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

From Mormon Enigma, again dictation...I may get interrupted by grandkids wanting to read books and play with puppets in bed, so if it looks half finished, it is and I will finish it later:

pg 139  there is quite a bit earlier about the teaching and marriage, focusing on the Emma relationship change...

" The two sisters did not state how they reconcile their divided loyalties between Joseph and Emma.  Emily's appreciation for Emma is apparent in her writings one day Emma said as we have been to so many parties we are to have one and invite the young people in to the home in return of course this please that's very much but the young women would find the problems over there secret marriages would even wrote their friendship with Emma."

pg 142-144  

 For two months from March to May Joseph appears to have talked with Emma about plural marriage he apparently used the rides together to teach her the necessity of the endowment and sealing.  there is no evidence that she ever opposed him on any doctrine but plural marriage convinced that it was necessary for her salvation and essential to their continued relationship she may have decided to compromise with Joseph in May 1843 she finally agreed to give Joseph otherwise if she could choose any of Joseph otherwise by now numbered at least 16 would have been more comfortable if they had had Emma's approval and I chose the two sets of sisters then living in her house Emily and Eliza Partridge and Sarah and Maria Lawrence.

 Joseph had finally converted Emma to plural marriage but not so fully that he dared tell her get married the partridge sisters two months earlier Emily said that "to save family trouble brother Joseph thought it best to have another ceremony perform… [Emma] had her feelings and so we thought there was no use in saying anything about it so long as she has chosen us herself." Emily also remembered that Emma " helped explain the principles to us."

skip a paragraph

 On May 23, 1843 Emma watched Judge James Adams a high priest in the church who is visiting from Springfield,  Mary Joseph to Emily analyze a Partridge in her home Emily wrote " we did not make much trouble but were sealed in her presence" she noted "Emma was present she gave her free and full consent ."

 Emma had made the sacrifice and within five days she had her reward on a cold rainy day May 28, 1843 Emma was sealed to Joseph for time and all eternity on the same day she was the first woman admitted to the Prayer Circle, Joseph would initiate her into the endowment sometime before the early autumn of that year.

 Emma's capitulation however was only momentary Emily wrote that "Emma seem to feel well until the ceremony was over when almost before she could draw a second breath she turned and will was more better in her feelings than ever before if possible before the day was over she turned around or repented what she had done and get Joseph up till very late in the night talking to him" understandably Emily and Eliza whose marriages  sanctioned one moment and disapproved the next had feelings of their own "she had as it were bound us to the ship and carried us to mid ocean then threw us over board to sink or swim as the case might be"

 William Clayton's diary entry for that same day explains why Emma was angry Joseph told Clayton that he "had had a little trouble with sister Emma" he had been with Eliza Partridge in an upstairs room when he heard someone on the stairs and quickly shut the door "not knowing who it was and held it Emma came to the door and called Eliza four times and tried  to force open the door President Smith opened it and told her the cost etc. she seemed much irritated and "why would Joseph have held the door until Emma called Eliza partridges name four times did Emma believe that Joseph And Eliza were hiding something from her Emily remember that Emma "kept a close watch on us if we were missing for a few minutes and Joseph was not at home the house was searched from top to bottom and from one end to the other and if we were not found the neighborhood was searched until we were found"

 Emma was not successful in keeping Joseph from meeting with his wives.  Emily Partridge would one day testify under oath that she "roomed" with Joseph on the night of her second marriage to him while Emma she believed was in the house at the time. she also testified that she had "slept with him" between her first marriage and the second ceremony 

skipped several paragraphs I may go back later 

 Remembering this difficult year Emily Patridge gave some set insights into Emma's situation as well as her own "she often made things very unpleasant but I have nothing in my heart towards her but pity. I know it was hard for Emma and any woman to enter plural marriage in those days and I do not know as anyone would have done any better than Emma did under the circumstances I think Emma always regretted having any hand in getting us into such trying circumstances but she need not to blame herself for that in the least for it would've been the same with or without her consent and I have never repented the act that made me a plural wife...of Joseph Smith and bound me to him what time and All eternity"

skipping to page 170

 Emily partridge was the only player wife we counted the events she said that interviews with Joseph her sister her self and Emma occur frequently "she sent for us one day to come to her room Joseph was present looking like a martyr Emma said some very hard things Joseph should give us up or blood would flow she would rather her blood would run pure then be poluted in this manner" Emily did not say precisely that Emma threatened suicide  but perhaps Joseph's fear that Emma had reached the point of taking such a drastic step prompted this final confrontation Emily "felt indignant towards Joseph for submitting to Emma....his countenance was the perfect picture of despair and "Emily wrote "[Emma]insisted that we should promise  to break up our bracket marriage racket covenants that we had made before God Joseph asked her if we made her the promise she required if she would cease to trouble us and not persist in our marrying someone else she made the promise just came to us and should cans with us and the understanding was it always ended between us I for one but to keep this promise I was forced to make."

 The young women went downstairs soon Joseph followed find an Emily alone he asked how do you feel Emily "I feel as anyone would under the circumstances" "you know my hands are tied and "Joseph responded Emily said you looked as if he was he would "sink into the earth and "her "heart was melted" and her anger left but before she had time to speak Joseph was gone.  Emma entered as he went out.

 Emily what did Joseph say to you" she asked "he asked me how I felt" "you might as well tell me" Emma said "I am determined that ?a stop she'll be put? to these things and I want you to tell me what he says to you" "I shall not tell you" Emily retorted "he can say what he pleases to me and I shall not report it to you it has been mischief enough made by doing that.   I am sick of these things as you can be." 

Emily did not know how her words ?might have affected? Emma but reported [ I ] learned afterwards that she gloried in my spunk."

 The situation became intolerable for both Emma and the girls Emily stated "Emma could not rest till she had got us out of the house and then she was not satisfied but wanted us to leave the city she offered to give us money to pay our expenses if we would go we can so to Joseph he said we might make a visit to some of our relatives who are living at the river two or 300 miles so we agreed to go and she gave us $10 Joseph said it was insufficient and for us not to go so we gave it up and return the money to Emma."

 Emily indicated the Joseph found her a place quote with the respectable family "although the Lord sisters probably let the mansion at the same time Emily sent it in her history it's Sarah and Maria received less severe treatment from Emma.

skipps ing to page 309

 Emily partridge helps express the sentiments of many who knew Emma what she wrote in 1883 "after this many years I can truly say; poor Emma, she could not sample of me but she was a good woman and I never wish to stand in her way of happiness and exultation. I hope the Lord will be merciful to her, and I  Believe he will. It is an awful thought to contemplate misery of a human being. If the Lord will, my heart says let Emma come up and stand in her place. Perhaps she has done no worse than any of us would have done in her place. Let the  Lord be the judge. "

Will fix punctuation later.

I am sorry...but this whole thing sounds so tacky.  The only good thing I see is Emma was at least the first to enter a prayer circle..how nice. I do have to admit and try to believe that these women believed...and meant Emma no harm...and yet, what else could she be but harmed?  She left her home to marry this man who had yet to reconcile with her father.  I would have loved to know the conversations Joseph had with Emma on their rides to get her to comply...after all is said and done..she was made a fool of.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Jeanne

[bcuzbcuz]

On 2017-03-10 at 1:56 AM, juliann said:

The problem isn't whether he "lied" or not. 

Sorry, but it is.

We're not talking about whether Joseph Smith merely mis-stated revenues or forgot someone's birthday.

He was married to 30+ women and didn't tell the truth to his wife, didn't tell the truth to the general membership of the church, didn't tell the truth to the public. We don't know who he told the truth to, other than his brother, Hyrum, and maybe some other close associates. 

The issue is as important as that he didn't tell the truth about it. 

[JLHPROF]

Just now, bcuzbcuz said:

Sorry, but it is.

We're not talking about whether Joseph Smith merely mis-stated revenues or forgot someone's birthday.

He was married to 30+ women and didn't tell the truth to his wife, didn't tell the truth to the general membership of the church, didn't tell the truth to the public. We don't know who he told the truth to, other than his brother, Hyrum, and maybe some other close associates. 

The issue is as important as that he didn't tell the truth about it. 

Ok, so he lied, whether by omission or comission.
And?  What do you consider that to signify?

[Jeanne]

3 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Ok, so he lied, whether by omission or comission.
And?  What do you consider that to signify?

That he was not a prophet and polygamy did not come from God.  Period.

[Tacenda]

43 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Ok, so he lied, whether by omission or comission.
And?  What do you consider that to signify?

It's a trust issue.

[JLHPROF]

56 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

That he was not a prophet and polygamy did not come from God.  Period.

 

18 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

It's a trust issue.

 

If polygamy didn't come from God then neither did Mormonism.    I agree with Pratt on this one. 

[juliann]

1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

That he was not a prophet and polygamy did not come from God.  Period.

I think that is an unworkable standard for anyone. All it does is produce double standards. I said earlier that this isn't about him lying it is about what a prophet is supposed to be. In fact, from my very first forays into apologetics, that is really what every single thing came down to: the definition of prophet. I think what people are really demanding is God himself come down because it isn't reasonable to expect a human being to be his dopleganger. 

What "came from God" is a different matter entirely until we hear a heavenly megaphone announcement in first person. I am moving toward JS weaving the implementation of eternal family sealings as a way to produce heavenly kingdoms with the thread of the accepted male entitlement mindset of the day. How could he not? If not, why are we hearing from General Conference that the Restoration is ongoing with a trajectory of baby steps towards restoring women's involvement?

I maintain that what we know of an institutionalized practice that was dominantly female but based on male entitlement, that has almost exclusively been researched by males from a male perspective is seriously lacking. But the last three books I have bought have been written by women about the women....who are no longer being presented as soundbites in a man's story. 

So I would suggest reserving judgment when it comes to polygamy until we have more. 

[Jeanne]

3 minutes ago, juliann said:

I think that is an unworkable standard for anyone. All it does is produce double standards. I said earlier that this isn't about him lying it is about what a prophet is supposed to be. In fact, from my very first forays into apologetics, that is really what every single thing came down to: the definition of prophet. I think what people are really demanding is God himself come down because it isn't reasonable to expect a human being to be his dopleganger. 

What "came from God" is a different matter entirely until we hear a heavenly megaphone announcement in first person. I am moving toward JS weaving the implementation of eternal family sealings as a way to produce heavenly kingdoms with the thread of the accepted male entitlement mindset of the day. How could he not? If not, why are we hearing from General Conference that the Restoration is ongoing with a trajectory of baby steps towards restoring women's involvement?

I maintain that what we know of an institutionalized practice that was dominantly female but based on male entitlement, that has almost exclusively been researched by males from a male perspective is seriously lacking. But the last three books I have bought have been written by women about the women....who are no longer being presented as soundbites in a man's story. 

So I would suggest reserving judgment when it comes to polygamy until we have more. 

I respect you and this post very much. 

[juliann]

Thanks, Jeanne. I am so glad for your perspective here. You can say what needs to be said while remaining fair and open minded. That is rare.

I probably have said this, but my sense of what is happening, or will happen, with more complete accounts of women's experiences is that it will no longer be possible to get away with glib comments about how great polygamy was no matter how supportive a woman was of it in principle. What has happened, I suspect, is that researchers have gotten away with using the story about how well two wives got along while ignoring the ones that didn't get along. Nor has the subordinate place of secondary wives been given proper attention. It doesn't suit the narrative of those who, in essence, advocate for polygamy.

What is going to have to happen and will sooner than later, is that those who insist polygamy in all of its implementation and reality "came from God" are going to have to separate the two or come out in full light and support the misery polygamy created for countless women....a good number who were cast off after the Manifesto with their children. Again, one can argue the necessity but one can no longer ignore the consequences to the most vulnerable of the population.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I am sorry...but this whole thing sounds so tacky.  The only good thing I see is Emma was at least the first to enter a prayer circle..how nice. I do have to admit and try to believe that these women believed...and meant Emma no harm...and yet, what else could she be but harmed?  She left her home to marry this man who had yet to reconcile with her father.  I would have loved to know the conversations Joseph had with Emma on their rides to get her to comply...after all is said and done..she was made a fool of.

If you are interested in Emma's perspective, you should read the book.  I left out tons and only included what would make sense for Emily and Eliza's comments.

Apparently Emma was fully supported of eternal marriage, the endowment, etc; the one doctrine she took issue with was plural marriage.  She is the only one of Joseph's wives that didn't get a real chance to say yes or no.  So much for the privileges of the first wife.

I think a lot of women fear death before their husband's, thinking they will get stuck in that situation also, where the only response is accept or walk.

 

Edited March 11, 2017 by Calm

[Calm]

23 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Funny, I was under the impression that the children went with the mother.
I'll have to look into that.

Parley P Pratt and his plural wife got into trouble because they took the children, but only got so far.  They had to be charged with stealing their clothing since a parent legally couldn't be charged with kidnapping.  This is the exhusband, who iirc, dumped the kids with the grandparents and took off and then returned to ensure she couldn't take them and in the end murdered PPP in spite of the efforts of the judge to get him away safely.

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

If you are interested in Emma's perspective, you should read the book.  I left out tons and only included what would make sense for Emily and Eliza's comments.

Apparently Emma was fully supported of eternal marriage, the endowment, etc; the one doctrine she took issue with was plural marriage.  She is the only one of Joseph's wives that didn't get a real chance to say yes or no.  So much for the privileges of the first wife.

I think a lot of women fear death before their husband's, thinking they will get stuck in that situation also, where the only response is accept or walk.

 

I read this book a long time ago and so much forgotten It is upstairs and I will have to read it again with a more eye.  Yeah, if Emma could have had the courtesy of choice (at least) she would have felt more included in the plan.  Until this thread, I didn't realize that women have this fear so this is an eye opener for me in better understanding of a lot of LDS women my age.

[juliann]

37 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I read this book a long time ago and so much forgotten It is upstairs and I will have to read it again with a more eye.  Yeah, if Emma could have had the courtesy of choice (at least) she would have felt more included in the plan.  Until this thread, I didn't realize that women have this fear so this is an eye opener for me in better understanding of a lot of LDS women my age.

Read Carol Lynn Pearson's book on how women feel about polygamy. The statements she collected get a bit overwrought at times, in a get some counseling for an anxiety disorder kind of way, but it gives a very good overview of the unintended consequences that linger.  The lasting lesson of polygamy, encouraged by those who want to hang onto the hope or expectation of it is, for women, don't love your husband too much. 

Edited March 12, 2017 by juliann

[Calm]

Sorry abt not correcting punctuation yet...off day.  Found a family website that looks like it has posted all the writings of Emily, looks like theyncorrected at least one spelling, but I am not going to be hyper about checking it with Mormon Enigma.  Looks like it has a bit more than they do, some that did not present Emma in a particularly nice way (see the "mitten" bit).  This and some quote references that left out what in my view was crucial info is why I don't use Mormon Enigma as a primary source, but always try to find more complete versions.  They have to edit for room, but their choices seem to be heavily slanted to just be done for that reason imo.

http://partridge.parkinsonfamily.org/histories/emily-what-i-remember.keys.htm

"When I was eighteen years old, Joseph said to me one day, “Emily, if you will not betray me, I will tell you something for your benefit.”  Of course I would keep his secret, but no opportunity offered for some time to say anything to me.  As I was passing through the room where he sat alone, he asked me if I would burn it if he would write me a letter.  As I felt very anxious to know what he had to tell me, I promised to do as he wished, and left the room.  I began to think that that was not the proper thing for me to do, and I was about as miserable as I ever would wish to be for a short time.  I went to my room and knelt down, and asked my Father in Heaven to direct me in the matter.  I had nowhere else to go.  I could not speak to anyone on earth.  I had to stand alone and set for myself.  I received no comfort until I went back and watched my opportunity to say I could not take a private letter from him.  He asked me if I wished the matter ended.  I said I did, and it rested so for some time and I had plenty of time to think, and began to wish I had listened to what he would have said, and began to be as miserable as I was before.

Mrs. Durfee came to me one day and said that Joseph would like an opportunity to talk with me.  I asked her if she knew what he wanted.  She said she thought he wanted me for a wife.  I was thoroughly prepared for almost anything.  I was to meet him in the evening at Mr. Kimball’s.  I had been helping with the wash all day and I was so afraid somebody would mistrust where I was going that I dared not change my wash dress.  So I threw a large cloak over me and said I was going to run over to see Mother, which I did, but did not stay long, and then started out as if going back, but went to the place appointed instead.  When I got there, nobody was at home but William and Helen Kimball.  I don’t know what they thought to see me there at that hour.  I did not wait long before Dorothea Kimball and Joseph came in.  Brother Heber told his children that they better go in to one of the neighbors, as there would be a council that evening at their house.  Then he said to me, “Vilate is not at home, and you had better call another time.”  So I started out with William and Helen, and bid them goodbye.

I started for home as fast as I could go so as to get beyond being called back, for I still dreaded the interview.  However, soon I heard Brother Kimball call, “Emily, Emily,” rather low but loud enough for me to hear.   I thought at first that I would not go back, and took no notice of his calling.  But he kept calling and was about to overtake me, so I stopped and went back with him.  I cannot tell you all Joseph said, but he said the Lord had commanded to enter into plural marriage and had given me to him and although I had gotten badly frightened, he knew I would yet have him.  So he waited till the Lord told him.  My mind was now prepared and would receive the principles.  I do not think if I had not gone through the ordeal I did that I would ever have gone off that night to meet him.  But that was the only way it could be done then.   Well, I was married then and there.  Joseph went home his way and I went my way alone.  A strange of way of getting married wasn’t it.  Brother Kimball married us on the 4th  of March, 1843.

I will mention here that soon after I refused to receive a letter, Mrs. Durfee invited my sister, Eliza, and me to her house to spend the afternoon.  She introduced the subject of spiritual wives, as they called it in that day.  She wondered if there was any truth in the report she heard.  I thought I could tell her something that would make her open her eyes if I chose, but I did not choose to.  I kept my own council and said nothing.  But going home, I felt impressed to tell Eliza.  I knew she would not betray me.  She felt very bad indeed for a short time, but it served to prepare her to receive the principles that were revealed soon afterward. 

While I was struggling in deep water those few months, I received a testimony of the words that Joseph would have said to me, and their nature, before they were told to me, and being convinced, I received them readily.  

Things remained as they were for a few months when sometime in the first part of May, Emma told Joseph that she would give him two wives if he would let her choose them for him.  She chose my sister and me and helped explain the principles to us.  We did not make much trouble, but were sealed in her presence with the full and free consent.  It was the 11th  of May, but before the day was over, she turned around, or repented what she had done, and kept Joseph up till very late in the night talking to him.  She kept close watch of us.  If we were missing for a few minutes and Joseph was not at home, the house was searched from top to bottom, and from one end to the other.  If we were not found, the neighbor-hood was searched until we were found.  She sent for us one day to come to her room.  Joseph was present looking like a martyr.  Emma said some very hard things.  Joseph should give us up.  She would rather her blood would run pure than be polluted in this manner.  Such interviews were quite common, but the last time she called us to her room, I felt quite indignant and was determined it should be the last, for it was becoming monotonous, and I am ashamed to say that I felt indignant toward Joseph for submitting to Emma.  But I see now that he could do no different.  

When we went in, Joseph was there, his countenance was the perfect picture of despair.  I cannot remember all that passed at that time, but she insisted that we should promise to break our covenants that we had made before God.  Joseph asked her if we made the promises she required, if she would cease to trouble us, and not persist in our marrying someone else.  She made the promise.  Joseph came to us and shook hands with us and the understanding was that all was ended between us.  I, for one, meant to keep the promise I was forced to make.  Some might think that Emma was justified in the course she took.  She might have been in some cases, but when the Lord commands, His word is not to be trifled with.  She sought to annoy in various ways.  She once proposed to a young man to ask Eliza to take a ride with him, and then give her the mitten and take one of the other girls instead, but the young man would not consent to it.

After our interview was over, we went downstairs.  Joseph soon came into the room were I was and said, “How do you feel, Emily?”  My heart being still hard, I answered him rather short that I expected that I felt like anybody would under the circumstances.  He said, “You know my hands are tied.”  And he looked as if he would sink into the earth.  I knew he spoke truly, and my heart was melted, all my hard feeling was gone in a moment (toward him), but I had no time to speak for he was gone.  Emma was on his track, and came in as he went out.  She said, “Emily, what did Joseph say to you?”  I answered that he had asked me how I felt.  She said, “You might as well tell me, for I am determined that a stop shall be put to these things and I want you to tell me what he says to you.”  I replied, “I shall not tell you, he can say what he pleases to me, and I shall not report it to you.  There has been mischief enough made by doing that.  I am as sick of these things as you can be.”  I said it in a tone that she knew I meant it.  I was not sick of polygamy for I knew that was a commandment from God, but I was sick of her abuse. I did not know what effect my words might have, but learned afterward that she gloried in my spunk.  There were times when I could plainly see the hand of Providence in making a way for my escape.

Emma could not rest until she had gotten us out of the house, and then she was not satisfied, but wanted us to leave the city.  She offered to give the money to pay our expenses if we would go.  We consulted Joseph, and he said we might make a visit to some of our relatives who were living up the river two or three hundred miles.  So we agreed to go, and she gave us ten dollars.  Joseph said it was insufficient and for us not to go, so we gave it up and returned the money to Emma.

(Grandmother and her sister, Eliza, live in the Prophet’s home and page 1030 in the D & C commentary it states that Emma Smith gave her consent to the Prophet’s marriage to both of these girls.) (EHB)

Since I have had children of my own, I can realize something of what my mother must have suffered, so somebody had gotten an inkling of what was going on and reported it to her.  But when Joseph talked with her and explained the principles, she was perfectly satisfied.  Mother had suffered much through her children, not from their sins or wrong doing, but from their sorrows and afflictions.  My dear children, I hope you will never know by experience what your parents have suffered.

I got a place (or Joseph did for me) with a respectable family.  The lady was very kind to me in some things, and I suppose she meant to be in everything, and I felt very thankful to her, but the work was rather hard.  I had to sleep in the same room with her and her husband in order to be where I could get up nights and tend her baby when it was worrisome.  Some nights I would get up several times and have sat before the fire nodding for hours trying to get the baby to sleep. I made no complaints, but left when I thought I could stand it no longer.  

I do not remember of seeing Joseph but once to speak to after I left the Mansion House and that was just before he started for Carthage.  His looks spoke the sorrow of his heart although his words were guarded."

Edited March 12, 2017 by Calm

[Calm]

Eliza from the same family site:

"After a time, my sister Emily and myself went to live in the family of the Prophet Joseph Smith. We lived there about three years. While there, he taught to us the plan of celestial marriage and asked us to enter into that order with him. This was truly a great trial for me but I had the most implicit confidence in him as a Prophet of the Lord and not but believe his words and as a matter of course accept of the privilege of being sealed to him as a wife for time and all eternity. We were sealed in , 1843, by H. C. K [Heber C. Kimball] in the presence of witnesses. I continued to live in his family for a length of time after this but did not reside there when he was martyred which was the 27th of June, 1844. 

I was then living with a family by the name of Coolidge. I stayed with them for a year or more until I was married to a man by the name of Amasa Lyman, one of the Twelve Apostles. I then went to live with my mother for a while and after that lived with him and his wife, Maria Louisa. Times were not then as they are now in 1877, but a woman living in polygamy dare not let it be known and nothing but a firm desire to keep the commandments of the Lord could have induced a girl to marry in that way. I thought my trials were very severe in the line and I am often led to wonder how it was that a person of my temperament could get along with it and not rebel, but I know it was the Lord who kept me from opposing his plans although in my heart I felt that I could not submit to them; but I did and I am thankful to my Heavenly Father for the care he had over me in those troublous times. After I married the second time, we remained in Nauvoo for a few months living a part of the time in the back part of my mother's house."

http://partridge.parkinsonfamily.org/histories/eliza-autobiography.boap.htm

I think I got the relevant comments, but other writings are available here:

http://partridge.parkinsonfamily.org/histories-catalog.htm

 

Edited March 12, 2017 by Calm

[Calm]

"As in her autobiographical sketches, Emily emphasized that Emma “had chosen myself and my sister, and we were married in her presence again because we thought [it] proper to say nothing about the former marriage, and it was done over again on the 11th of May 1843 in her presence, and she gave her consent fully and freely and voluntarily.” Hall pressed her to explain why the ceremony was performed for a second time. “Well Emma had a good many feelings we supposed,” Emily suggested. “She was a rather high strung woman of a very nervous organization, and we thought that she had her feelings, and so we thought there was no use in saying any thing about it, so long as she had chosen us herself, - there was no use of having another ceremony only for that reason. That is the only reason I know for not saying anything about it.”72"

http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1055&context=mormonhistory

original here:

http://mormonpolygamydocuments.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/JS1572.pdf

Edited March 12, 2017 by Calm

[bcuzbcuz]

16 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Ok, so he lied, whether by omission or comission.
And?  What do you consider that to signify?

You really aren't getting it. It is far less a matter of whether he lied or not, but WHAT he lied about.

The principle in question is polygamy (and that is by no means a small principle), the husband MUST NOT lie to the first wife about it. If the first wife doesn't buy into it, which Emma didn't, there can be no wife number 2, or 3, or 4, or 5.......or 33.

These aren't my rules. They were the rules for polygamy as outlined (admittedly, after Joseph Smith's time) by the church leaders. Joesph claimed he had direct guidance by God and angels. Are we expected to believe that God (or the angels) were giving the advice that if Emma would not accept polygamy, Joesph was just to go behind her back?

Why were they not giving the advice that Joseph divorce Emma and find a wife who would agree with polygamy.....such as wife number 2, or 3, or 4? Ok, wife number 2 was Fanny Alger and she took off and married someone else after Emma threw her out of the Smith household, but JS could have gone after wife number 3. 

Honestly, isn't being truthful to one's partner (wife or husband) an important principle in the church?

[Meadowchik]

2 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

You really aren't getting it. It is far less a matter of whether he lied or not, but WHAT he lied about.

The principle in question is polygamy (and that is by no means a small principle), the husband MUST NOT lie to the first wife about it. If the first wife doesn't buy into it, which Emma didn't, there can be no wife number 2, or 3, or 4, or 5.......or 33.

These aren't my rules. They were the rules for polygamy as outlined (admittedly, after Joseph Smith's time) by the church leaders. Joesph claimed he had direct guidance by God and angels. Are we expected to believe that God (or the angels) were giving the advice that if Emma would not accept polygamy, Joesph was just to go behind her back?

Why were they not giving the advice that Joseph divorce Emma and find a wife who would agree with polygamy.....such as wife number 2, or 3, or 4? Ok, wife number 2 was Fanny Alger and she took off and married someone else after Emma threw her out of the Smith household, but JS could have gone after wife number 3. 

Honestly, isn't being truthful to one's partner (wife or husband) an important principle in the church?

Add to that the absolute impropriety of their civil, military, and religious leader presenting ultimatums to young girls and their families to pressure them into marrying him.

It is not "presentism" to know that is evil.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Meadowchik

[Tacenda]

28 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Add to that the absolute impropriety of their civil, military, and religious leader presenting ultimatums to young girls and their families to pressure them into marrying him.

It is not "presentism" to know that is evil.

And this has been the crux as to how I've been unable to live a normal life again after finding out the truth about Joseph. Leaving or not believing in the church is life changing and not always for the good, makes a person question everything and having faith takes on a whole new level.

When I read even the words of the Partridge sisters I see that what he did was wrong. But Joseph could do no wrong I guess. And although bcuzbuz mentions that Joseph should have not taken wives 2, 3, and so on because it was against Emma's wishes as per the D&C 132, when I read it, it condemns Emma if she doesn't accept. So a catch 22, she has no choice! 

 61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

 62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

 63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.

 64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.

 65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take Hagar to wife.

ME: It appears in section 65 Emma must receive the law or she becomes the transgressor. But I wonder if the law unto her becomes null and void if she doesn't give her consent for the wives. The waters are very muddy here.

[Meadowchik]

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

And this has been the crux as to how I've been unable to live a normal life again after finding out the truth about Joseph. Leaving or not believing in the church is life changing and not always for the good, makes a person question everything and having faith takes on a whole new level.

When I read even the words of the Partridge sisters I see that what he did was wrong. But Joseph could do no wrong I guess. And although bcuzbuz mentions that Joseph should have not taken wives 2, 3, and so on because it was against Emma's wishes as per the D&C 132, when I read it, it condemns Emma if she doesn't accept. So a catch 22, she has no choice! 

 61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

 62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

 63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.

 64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.

 65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take Hagar to wife.

ME: It appears in section 65 Emma must receive the law or she becomes the transgressor. But I wonder if the law unto her becomes null and void if she doesn't give her consent for the wives. The waters are very muddy here.

Yup, from an objective eye the verses contradict themselves. If the wife cannot reject, then consent is not consent.

[JulieM]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

Things remained as they were for a few months when sometime in the first part of May, Emma told Joseph that she would give him two wives if he would let her choose them for him.  She chose my sister and me and helped explain the principles to us.  We did not make much trouble, but were sealed in her presence with the full and free consent.  It was the 11th  of May, but before the day was over, she turned around, or repented what she had done, and kept Joseph up till very late in the night talking to him.  She kept close watch of us.  If we were missing for a few minutes and Joseph was not at home, the house was searched from top to bottom, and from one end to the other.  If we were not found, the neighbor-hood was searched until we were found. 

This just made me sad to read.  That must have been awful for all involved.

I hadn't previously read a lot of what you posted, Calm.  Thanks for searching it out and finding the original source.  It's fascinating to read what both sisters wrote.