Calm Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 This would appear to be a thank you for consistent support: "Jeffress was an early supporter of Trump, a Presbyterian who courted evangelicals during the election. Jeffress said in his sermon that it was one year ago this weekend that he was with Trump on his jet flying around Iowa. After sharing Wendy’s cheeseburgers, Jeffress said, he believed Trump would be the next president and that it would be because God placed him there." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/01/20/god-is-not-against-building-walls-the-sermon-donald-trump-heard-before-his-inauguration/?utm_term=.3349cf080ad1 I think I need to check out past sermons to see if they were so full of deference.
Buckeye Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Calm said: This would appear to be a thank you for consistent support: "Jeffress was an early supporter of Trump, a Presbyterian who courted evangelicals during the election. Jeffress said in his sermon that it was one year ago this weekend that he was with Trump on his jet flying around Iowa. After sharing Wendy’s cheeseburgers, Jeffress said, he believed Trump would be the next president and that it would be because God placed him there." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/01/20/god-is-not-against-building-walls-the-sermon-donald-trump-heard-before-his-inauguration/?utm_term=.3349cf080ad1 I think I need to check out past sermons to see if they were so full of deference. If anything, Trump is very consistent in rewarding loyalty and remember slights. Not the best recipe for DC politics. 1
Jeanne Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 Just now, Buckeye said: If anything, Trump is very consistent in rewarding loyalty and remember slights. Not the best recipe for DC politics. Some of us are real tired of DC politics...but I understand what ;you are saying and understand how you feel. 1
Calm Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Buckeye said: If anything, Trump is very consistent in rewarding loyalty and remember slights. Not the best recipe for DC politics. And not the nonpolitical attribute most people were likely hoping for by electing someone with no experience in government. 1
Buckeye Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Some of us are real tired of DC politics...but I understand what ;you are saying and understand how you feel. I personally do not like politics, but its an annoyance I can deal with. Creating lists of friends and enemies, though, is more than just annoyance; it's a real threat. 2
Buckeye Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Calm said: And not the nonpolitical attribute most people were likely hoping for by electing someone with no experience in government. Trump does bring a lot of business experience. Oh look, he's already putting it to good use:"White House website promotes Melania Trump’s modeling and jewelry line" (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/20/white-house-website-promotes-melania-trumps-modeling-and-jewelry-line/?postshare=8591484945823127&tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.611e014921f2) 2
Scott Lloyd Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 50 minutes ago, Calm said: I am hoping that too. I have been preoccupied lately with family needs so haven't been studying the political scene much outside of these controversies. All I have seen are recitations where his choices, like this one of a pasto known for promoting division, do not appear to me to be healing, but more negative. Any actual actions or choices of his that hint of better things to come? He did strike that deal with Carrier in late November that prevented jobs from being moved to Mexico. There has been some dispute since to the the effect that he didn't save as many jobs as initially claimed, but it is worthy of consideration when assessing whether there are indications he will keep his promises. This is consistent with a note he struck in his inauguration speech today about keeping jobs from being exported away from the United States.
snowflake Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Calm said: Where am I wrong? What I quoted has been consistently in our manuals for the last 50 years. It can hardly be "churches" as we currently understand the term since there are only two of them in all the earth and it is obvious, for example, that the Roman Catholic Church is not the same organization as the Baptist Church. If one actually reads the Book of Mormon for its definition of the GandA, it is obvious that it cannot be any specific organization that we can easily identify as none have dominion over the world. "The phrase "great and abominable church," which appears in an apocalyptic vision received by the Book of Mormon prophet Nephi 1 in the sixth century B.C. (1 Ne. 13:6), refers to the church of the devil and is understood by Latter-day Saints to be equivalent to the "great whore that sitteth upon many waters" described in Revelation 17:1. This "whore of all the earth" is identified by Nephi's brother Jacob as all those who are against God and who fight against Zion, in all periods of time (2 Ne. 10:16). Nephi did not write a detailed account of everything he saw in the vision, as this responsibility was reserved for John the apostle, who was to receive the same vision; however, Nephi repeatedly refers to its content and teachings, using various images and phrases (1 Ne. 13:4-9, 26-27, 34;14:1-4, 9-17)." http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Great_and_Abominable_Church What it likely means is that anyone, anywhere can choose to serve God or they can choose to serve the Devil by being among those who fit the definition. Not having a better word available, Joseph used "church" as an indicator of the form of worship people choose. Do we worship God in some form or do we actively reject him and choose Satan/Evil. If we are not actively choosing evil and we are attempting to do good to others even in feeble ways, God can work in us and bring us to him. Actively seeking evil/worshipping the Devil is defined by Nephi as described below: "They are those from all nations and all time periods who desire "to get gain, and…power over the flesh, and…to become popular in the eyes of the world,…who seek the lusts of the flesh and the things of the world, and to do all manner of iniquity" (1 Ne. 22:23). Other scriptural terms related to the great and abominable church include "Babylon" and the "great harlot" (Rev. 17:5; 1 Ne. 22:13; D&C 1:16). Images of pride, greed, and covenant abandonment are associated with these terms, in sharp contrast to the church of God. The scriptures are consistent in warning people to flee from the church of evil and find refuge in the church of God (Jer. 51:6; Rev. 18:4; 1 Ne. 20:20; D&C 133:14; see also P. Minear, "Babylon," in Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, 1:338, Nashville, Tenn., 1962). The Book of Mormon image of a great and abominable church complements the biblical images of Babylon and the harlot." And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. (1 Nephi 14:10) Again, two churches only, the church of the Lamb of God (LDS) and the other(s)......Islam, Hindu, Protestant, Catholic...etc.....Joseph was very clear of this in the introduction to the BOM. They were all wrong except for Joseph's restored church. I was fed this stuff from day one, learned it in primary, reinforced by the brethren as I was raised up. The missionaries used to teach it as well however I know they have changed their tune over the years.
Scott Lloyd Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, snowflake said: And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. (1 Nephi 14:10) Again, two churches only, the church of the Lamb of God (LDS) and the other(s)......Islam, Hindu, Protestant, Catholic...etc.....Joseph was very clear of this in the introduction to the BOM. They were all wrong except for Joseph's restored church. I was fed this stuff from day one, learned it in primary, reinforced by the brethren as I was raised up. The missionaries used to teach it as well however I know they have changed their tune over the years. Here is an article published 29 years ago this month in the Ensign magazine, the official magazine of the Church, that contradicts the "stuff" you claim you were fed "from day one," that you "learned ... in Primary" and that was "reinforced by the Brethren." So what you insist is your understanding was contradicted at least three decades ago in an official Church source. Edited January 21, 2017 by Scott Lloyd 4
Duncan Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: He did strike that deal with Carrier in late November that prevented jobs from being moved to Mexico. There has been some dispute since to the the effect that he didn't save as many jobs as initially claimed, but it is worthy of consideration when assessing whether there are indications he will keep his promises. This is consistent with a note he struck in his inauguration speech today about keeping jobs from being exported away from the United States. is he going to save the Ringling Brothers? American tradition for 146 years! 1
Scott Lloyd Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Duncan said: is he going to save the Ringling Brothers? American tradition for 146 years! I didn't know they were on the skids. Guess I'm out of the loop on that. Edited to add: Just did a Google search and learned that the circus is the victim of declining ticket sales and public outcry engendered by pressure groups. I'm not sure even Trump is up to the challenge of fending off that. I agree it's sad to see it go, but I have to admit it has been many years since I went to the circus, and last time I tried, I wasn't able to talk my wife or kids into going, even with free or discount tickets. Edited January 21, 2017 by Scott Lloyd
boblloyd91 Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, snowflake said: And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. (1 Nephi 14:10) Again, two churches only, the church of the Lamb of God (LDS) and the other(s)......Islam, Hindu, Protestant, Catholic...etc.....Joseph was very clear of this in the introduction to the BOM. They were all wrong except for Joseph's restored church. I was fed this stuff from day one, learned it in primary, reinforced by the brethren as I was raised up. The missionaries used to teach it as well however I know they have changed their tune over the years. It's very telling to me that the only person who thinks we believe this is you.....pretty much every active Latter Day Saint has told you they don't believe this. And I will also say I don't believe this. I may have heard it a little bit from the fringes but I was never taught hatred towards other churches. Do LDS, Catholic or Orthodox have ministries dedicated to attacking other faiths? Do they write pamphlets demeaning the beliefs of others? Do they host guest speakers saying their neighbors of a different faith don't believe in Jesus?No, it's those "bible believing" fundamentalists who are the ones who do so. Edited January 21, 2017 by boblloyd91 3
Duncan Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: I didn't know they were on the skids. Guess I'm out of the loop on that. Edited to add: Just did a Google search and learned that the circus is the victim of declining ticket sales and public outcry engendered by pressure groups. I'm not sure even Trump is up to the challenge of fending off that. I agree it's sad to see it go, but I have to admit it has been many years since I went to the circus, and last time I tried, I wasn't able to talk my wife or kids into going, even with free or discount tickets. yeah, PETA and declining sales and I am a huge fan!!!!!!!!!!
Scott Lloyd Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 6 hours ago, Buckeye said: In all seriousness, though, I'm confident that President Trump paid next to no attention to either Jeffress or the Choir. 6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: I beg to differ. While the choir was singing, I saw on TV him mouthing the word "America" as the choir sang it. He seemed visibly moved to me. YMMV. 6 hours ago, Buckeye said: We'll have to differ, then. I watched the same clip live. He seemed nervous and distracted to me, not really paying attention. And that shouldn't be surprising since he was about to be sworn in. 5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: If you didn't see him mouthing "America," you didn't see the shot I saw (NBC coverage). It was very clear and obvious. And I was watching live as well. My colleague, Tad Walch, who was there on the scene this morning corroborates what I saw on television: Quote The choir sang "America, the Beautiful" just preceding Trump taking his oath at the constitutionally appointed noon hour. He was seen at times on the televised coverage of the inauguration as singing along with the choir. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 So it must be a heady experience -- one day you're just an ordinary, run-of-the-mill billionaire and the next day you've got your "own marine band." 1
Popular Post The Nehor Posted January 21, 2017 Popular Post Posted January 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: He did strike that deal with Carrier in late November that prevented jobs from being moved to Mexico. There has been some dispute since to the the effect that he didn't save as many jobs as initially claimed, but it is worthy of consideration when assessing whether there are indications he will keep his promises. This is consistent with a note he struck in his inauguration speech today about keeping jobs from being exported away from the United States. Which was, in my opinion, a bad idea. Offering specific incentives is a bad precedent to set. Do I need some tax breaks? Threaten to move to Mexico. It was also not a federal responsibility. It was more something the states should be doing and the benefits were on the state level. Pence deserved the credit there if credit is due. I do not want a president down in the weeds individually negotiating with businesses so he can brag about it on Twitter. His position is situated to fix systemic issues and make large scale beneficial adjustments. This has less of an immediate payoff which is why I expect our gloryhound president to prefer saving a couple of hundred jobs by negotiating rather then thousands or tens of thousands through sound policy adjustment. The latter is harder to brag about on Twitter. 6
Jeanne Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Buckeye said: I personally do not like politics, but its an annoyance I can deal with. Creating lists of friends and enemies, though, is more than just annoyance; it's a real threat. I agree and hope that the President will refrain from doing this in the future.
cdowis Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 29 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I do not want a president down in the weeds individually negotiating with businesses so he can brag about it on Twitter. His position is situated to fix systemic issues and make large scale beneficial adjustments. Are you familiar with "priming the pump", (Rhymes with Trump). Which will give things a bump Before he drains the swamp. 3
Scott Lloyd Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 58 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Which was, in my opinion, a bad idea. Offering specific incentives is a bad precedent to set. Do I need some tax breaks? Threaten to move to Mexico. It was also not a federal responsibility. It was more something the states should be doing and the benefits were on the state level. Pence deserved the credit there if credit is due. I do not want a president down in the weeds individually negotiating with businesses so he can brag about it on Twitter. His position is situated to fix systemic issues and make large scale beneficial adjustments. This has less of an immediate payoff which is why I expect our gloryhound president to prefer saving a couple of hundred jobs by negotiating rather then thousands or tens of thousands through sound policy adjustment. The latter is harder to brag about on Twitter. Hard to argue with results. And whether Trump or Pence gets the credit is a quibble. It's the same administration.
Scott Lloyd Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) So by my calculation, Trump has been in office half a work day and has already had a couple of cabinet appointments confirmed by Congress, signed a document to roll back Obamacare and another document declaring a freeze on regulatory measures pending a review. This on top of all the stuff involved in the inauguration. Wish all my days were that productive. Edited January 21, 2017 by Scott Lloyd 1
Duncan Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: So by my calculation, Trump has been in office half a work day and has already had a couple of cabinet appointments confirmed by Congress, signed a document to roll back Obamacare and another document declaring a freeze on regulatory measures pending a review. This on top of all the stuff involved in the inauguration. Wish all my days were that productive. productive in that he did something but Al Capone also did stuff but hardly beneficial to society and bring back Ringling!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1
MiserereNobis Posted January 21, 2017 Author Posted January 21, 2017 29 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: So by my calculation, Trump has been in office half a work day and has already had a couple of cabinet appointments confirmed by Congress, signed a document to roll back Obamacare and another document declaring a freeze on regulatory measures pending a review. This on top of all the stuff involved in the inauguration. Wish all my days were that productive. That's very standard stuff for a new president. Here's what Obama did on January 20, 2009: Quote Hours laters, the White House chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, signed a memorandum sent to agencies and departments to stop all pending regulations until a legal and policy review could be conducted by the Obama administration. Quote After seeing Mr. Bush off, Mr. Obama went back inside the Capitol to sign nomination papers for his cabinet choices and to attend a traditional luncheon in Statuary Hall, the original chamber of the House of Representatives. After lunch, the Senate got back to business, and by unanimous consent confirmed the appointments of seven cabinet secretaries 2
Scott Lloyd Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Duncan said: productive in that he did something but Al Capone also did stuff but hardly beneficial to society and bring back Ringling!!!!!!!!!!!!! So it's not Hitler now, but Capone. Acute Trump derangement syndrome in evidence here. Edited January 21, 2017 by Scott Lloyd
Duncan Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: So it's not Hitler now, but Capone. Acute Trump derangement syndrome in evidence here. did I say Don the Con was like Capone? nope- What I did say was that even a villain like Capone did stuff but it wasn't good stuff, I could have said Sally Schmuck snorted lines all day but again hardly beneficial to anyone. By your own statement all he did was sign two documents and was probably notified the swamp just got filled again, hardly difficult but then again he has small hands and tires easily
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