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Does DN editors need to be reigned in?

6EQUJ5

By 6EQUJ5
in General Discussions

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maklelan Experienced

maklelan

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

What is important to note (since you and 6EQUJ5 raise the issue), is that Trump won only a small minority of Utah votes.  The vast majority of Utahns voted for someone else: namely Evan McMullin, Hillary Clinton, and others.  Since it is winner-take-all in Presidential elections, Trump got Utah's 6 electoral votes simply by gaining a plurality.  Indeed, that was the overall secret of  his success nationwide, even though he did not have the popular vote.  Anyhow, one could conclude that, unlike the Evangelicals, Mormons are disgusted by Trump.

I disagree that 47% is a small minority, and he beat the next candidate by almost 20 points. Also, 81% of evangelicals and 61% of Mormons voted for Trump. Those are the two highest rates among any religious group in our country, so I disagree that Mormons are disgusted by Trump. 61% is a large majority.

2
maklelan Experienced

maklelan

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

You have absolutely no way of knowing that.

You have absolutely no way of knowing otherwise, but what we both know is that Trump is a grotesquely wicked, criminal, abusive, and dishonest individual. It will never be my belief that the Lord would compel his followers to support such a profoundly pathetic excuse for a national leader.

1
Tacenda Grand Master

Tacenda

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Duncan said:

I guess it depends on your political bent if you don't want someone to get into office then they need to be reigned in but if you are the other side then no they don't. So, maybe they shouldn't have said anything at all but a newspaper that says nothing about politics is like chicken that sneezes sparkles, it ain't ever going happen

I have more respect for the DN now, of course that says it all on who I didn't vote for, but at least we know that the church doesn't guide their every movement. And they are able to make known their own feelings. 

2
JulieM Grand Master

JulieM

Posted
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, maklelan said:

You have absolutely no way of knowing otherwise, but what we both know is that Trump is a grotesquely wicked, criminal, abusive, and dishonest individual. 

You need to quit making definitive statements about what other people "know".  You can only speak for yourself.  

And, everything you said above about Trump  can be said for Clinton too.  There were really no good choices if we're purely going on things they've done in their lives. I think one had to vote by where they stood on issues.  They are both corrupt and dishonest, IMO.

Edited by JulieM
4
maklelan Experienced

maklelan

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, JulieM said:

You need to quit making definitive statements about what other people "know".  You can only speak for yourself.  

And, everything you said above about Trump  can be said for Clinton too.  There were really no good choices if we're purely going on things they've done in their lives. I think one had to vote by where they stood on issues.  They are both corrupt and dishonest, IMO.

There were no good choices, but Donald Trump was demonstrably and unquestionably the worst choice by far. Go read those links I put on the previous page that show school children and university students being bullied and beaten, and white supremacist slogans and chants becoming common because a large part of Trump's support came from white nationalists who now see his victory as a mandate. People are suffering violence right now because Trump's victory made them feel racism and xenophobia are now ok. The more you try to justify voting for Donald Trump and avoid engaging the fact that he has demonstrably catalyzed abuse and violence that is literally being perpetrated in his name, the more you tolerate and permit it. Imagine being afraid to leave your home and go into public because you thought someone might recognize your religious garments and tear them off of you and scream at you that you're not wanted. Hard to imagine, isn't it? But IT IS HAPPENING as we speak. Muslim women around the country fear for their safety and are beginning to not wear their religious garments because of that fear. Is that really the America you want to defend right now? You really want to say Clinton would have been just as bad, so this is permissible? I want an honest and direct answer from you. Is this America ok?

JulieM Grand Master

JulieM

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, maklelan said:

There were no good choices, but Donald Trump was demonstrably and unquestionably the worst choice by far. Go read those links I put on the previous page that show school children and university students being bullied and beaten, and white supremacist slogans and chants becoming common because a large part of Trump's support came from white nationalists who now see his victory as a mandate. People are suffering violence right now because Trump's victory made them feel racism and xenophobia are now ok. The more you try to justify voting for Donald Trump and avoid engaging the fact that he has demonstrably catalyzed abuse and violence that is literally being perpetrated in his name, the more you tolerate and permit it. Imagine being afraid to leave your home and go into public because you thought someone might recognize your religious garments and tear them off of you and scream at you that you're not wanted. Hard to imagine, isn't it? But IT IS HAPPENING as we speak. Muslim women around the country fear for their safety and are beginning to not wear their religious garments because of that fear. Is that really the America you want to defend right now? You really want to say Clinton would have been just as bad, so this is permissible? I want an honest and direct answer from you. Is this America ok?

Wow, you are really blaming Trump for all of the rioting and violence taking place now?  He doesn't want that (or do you have proof he does?).  This speaks more to who the people are who supported Clinton.  They are breaking laws and destroying property and beating Trump supporters.  And you're blaming that on Trump?  That's unbelievable!

People are just as passionate who supported Trump, but I highly doubt they'd be behaving like the Clinton supporters are now with their loss. 

And your first sentence above is your opinion.  I get that.  But many believe this about Clinton.  She was in favor of partial birth and late term abortions and she is also about as dishonest as they come, IMO.  She degraded the women that accused her husband of sexual abuse or rape.  Neither candidate comes out smelling clean here.  I feel people were forced to vote according to the platforms and issues, because neither Trump nor Clinton are examples of a moral, honest person.

Edited by JulieM
1
mnn727 Grand Master

mnn727

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, maklelan said:

The Spirit did not compel a single person to vote for Donald Trump, 

That's your opinion, but lets stick to the subject and keep politics out of this thread.

Rain Grand Master

Rain

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Gray said:

I'm not sure why it is so unbelievable that the leaders of the church would not want church members supporting an immoral, venal candidate like Trump who ran a campaign in direct opposition to church leaders' beliefs about religious freedom.

I don't think anyone thinks it is unbelievable that the leaders do not want members supporting immoral men. What they are trying to say is the opinion piece didn't come from church leaders. Whether the leaders agreed to it or not is another thing. 

1 hour ago, maklelan said:

I disagree that 47% is a small minority, and he beat the next candidate by almost 20 points. Also, 81% of evangelicals and 61% of Mormons voted for Trump. Those are the two highest rates among any religious group in our country, so I disagree that Mormons are disgusted by Trump. 61% is a large majority.

I know people who voted for him who were disgusted by him. In fact, most mormon friends I have who voted for him were disgusted or disliked him. They voted for party platform rather than person. Now a whole lot can be said about party platform and my feelings for the whole mess that I don't want to get into, but voting for for Trump does not necessarily equal liking Trump. 

1
Gray Grand Master

Gray

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, maklelan said:

I disagree that 47% is a small minority, and he beat the next candidate by almost 20 points. Also, 81% of evangelicals and 61% of Mormons voted for Trump. Those are the two highest rates among any religious group in our country, so I disagree that Mormons are disgusted by Trump. 61% is a large majority.

I think something like 80% of Mormons are Republican (IIRC), so 61% is better than it could have been just based on party affiliation

2
JulieM Grand Master

JulieM

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Rain said:

I don't think anyone thinks it is unbelievable that the leaders do not want members supporting immoral men.

Or immoral women :)

4
JulieM Grand Master

JulieM

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Rain said:

I know people who voted for him who were disgusted by him. In fact, most mormon friends I have who voted for him were disgusted or disliked him. They voted for party platform rather than person. Now a whole lot can be said about party platform and my feelings for the whole mess that I don't want to get into, but voting for for Trump does not necessarily equal liking Trump. 

Exactly.  As I already stated, neither Trump nor Clinton are moral or honest and have done disgusting things, IMO.  

bsjkki Grand Master

bsjkki

Posted
Posted

I know many people who took the Deseret News opinion piece as coming from the Brethren. They may have been uninformed or didn't read the statement about how the Deseret News is independent and it was only the view of the editorial board but their belief was it was the way the church could express their position. Many on this board have implied the same in their belief even if it isn't fact. The Deseret News doesn't need to be censored or reined in but they should know, what is true and what people will believe, may not be the same thing. At the time, I wished they had asked for both deeply flawed candidates to step down.

Wherever violence and threats, name calling and bad behavior are occurring, these actions should all be condemned. The motivations for these actions have many sources but it should be time to try and heal and come together after this polarizing election. The fact that this political environment is spawning hate speech in primary schools and towards children is very disturbing because they are only mimics of their parents. Still debating which side is worse, or who is behaving worse after the election isn't helpful. 

1
rodheadlee Grand Master

rodheadlee

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, maklelan said:

Yeah, probably just my overactive liberal imagination. You know how we get.

http://www.redding.com/news/local/Shasta-High-student-gives-deportation-notice-to-non-white-students-400720861.html

http://www.canisius.edu/about-canisius/president-hurley-statement.dot

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/texas-state-university-police-looking-into-trump-vigilante-fliers/jhWSmmhNxxuTXZaQJiYhNI/

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/fck-nrs-pro-trump-whites-only-warning-greets-minnesota-students-day-after-election/

http://www.wnem.com/story/33481313/possible-racist-instagram-post-mocks-female-football-kicker

https://mic.com/articles/159188/latino-students-report-racist-incidents-within-hours-of-donald-trump-s-win#.b3uSCE06a

http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/11/09/woman-wearing-hijab-attacked-at-san-jose-state/

http://theworldlink.com/news/local/education/article_0d660ccf-6b33-5e45-862a-a11459fb401f.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2016/11/uo_student_sees_3_people_weari.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/11/2_silverton_students_suspended.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2016/11/two_more_oregon_schools_report.html

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/video-catches-students-shouting-white-power-while-marching-with-trump-sign-at-pennsylvania-school/

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/trump-fans-film-themselves-driving-through-womens-college-and-harassing-black-students/

http://www.cbs58.com/story/33683147/latino-students-say-they-are-being-bullied-at-marquette-university-high-school

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20161112_Racist_messages_target_black_freshmen_at_UPenn_with__lynching_.html

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mikehayes/middle-schoolers-chant-build-the-wall?utm_term=.dn7OV4WD5e#.mcxz7mX6dE

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article114238538.html

https://www.buzzfeed.com/adolfoflores/latinos-say-kids-are-already-being-bullied-at-school-in-the?utm_term=.qqPxq6JZl7#.adGjyLJ5DG

According to the SFGate many of these reports are fake.

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Election-ruptures-civility-here-in-the-America-s-10608828.php

But it really doesn't matter because they are not going to toss out the election results and disband the Electoral College no matter how many windows the Libs break.

1
maklelan Experienced

maklelan

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Wow, you are really blaming Trump for all of the rioting and violence taking place now?  

Absolutely. He called for it, he has not condemned any of it, and it is happening literally in his name. And now instead of you condemning it, you're trying to just shift blame.

Quote

He doesn't want that (or do you have proof he does?).

Then why hasn't he condemned any of it?

Quote

This speaks more to who the people are who supported Clinton. 

What an unimaginably hateful and grotesquely ignorant thing to say. You really do not care that CHILDREN are being targeted, harassed, and attacked because of the color of their skin, and by others who insist their president makes it ok? 

maklelan Experienced

maklelan

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

According to the SFGate many of these reports are fake.

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Election-ruptures-civility-here-in-the-America-s-10608828.php

But it really doesn't matter because they are not going to toss out the election results and disband the Electoral College no matter how many windows the Libs break.

The SPLC is investigating over 200 reports. We'll see what's fake and what's not, but I find it absolutely horrific and grotesque that your response is not to show concern for the safety of children and adults who fear for their lives and who are being harassed and attacked, but to bark that libs aren't going to get their way. You are no Christian. 

JulieM Grand Master

JulieM

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, maklelan said:

Absolutely. He called for it...

CFR for a quote from Trump calling for the riots and violence that is taking place.

Edited by JulieM
maklelan Experienced

maklelan

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

That's your opinion, but lets stick to the subject and keep politics out of this thread.

Yeah, best ignore the fact that people in this thread are legitimizing racial abuse and attacks. Not our problem, huh?

1
JulieM Grand Master

JulieM

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, maklelan said:

Absolutely. He called for it, he has not condemned any of it, and it is happening literally in his name. And now instead of you condemning it, you're trying to just shift blame.

Then why hasn't he condemned any of it?

Has Clinton condemned it?  Or Obama?  I think they all should, but let's not single out Trump.  These are Clinton supporters who are rioting, not the Trump supporters.

I think what is taking place is disgraceful for our country but to blame Trump is ridiculous.  Each person involved is responsible for their own actions.

1
maklelan Experienced

maklelan

Posted
Posted
Just now, JulieM said:

Has Clinton condemned it?  Or Obama?  I think they all should, but let's not single out Trump.  These are Clinton supporters who are rioting, not the Trump supporters.

I think what is taking place is disgraceful for our country but to blame Trump is ridiculous.  Each person involved is responsible for their own actions.

They have both repeatedly and vehemently condemned any and all violence from both sides of the isle. Trump, on the other hand, has repeatedly encouraged it. Again, though, for you to simply try to deflect blame while children and adults are being attacked and abused literally in Trump's name simply legitimizes it and refuses to make it a concern, and that is profoundly, profoundly unchristian and immoral. 

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