Man believes homosexuality is a “sexual addiction and dependency”

[RevTestament]

Man says he had a poor father figure who did not express his love, and then was exposed to homosexual behavior while a child and became addicted, but that after accepting Christ, found his homosexual desires abating

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ex-gay-homosexuality-is-just-another-human-brokenness

Although this man seems to have been on the "outer edge of homosexuality" as he did finally marry, I believe his story offers hope to those with SSA who are open to trying to follow Christ and live a traditional heterosexual marriage, and perhaps offer clues as to how people end up with SSA. I have often felt like the biggest plague in our society is a lack of love. There are so many growing up without adequate feeling of love from their parents that they seek other ways of finding it. It is only "natural" that some boys will find it with other young boys, which pattern continues. I wonder what percentage of homosexuals will say these types of feelings happened in their childhood.

What percentage of homosexuals believe Yeshua helped abate their SSA? Are there any such statistics? If they have a hetero marriage does that help, and is it fair to the spouse? Is our society which has become so afraid of invading the personal space of others causing more to have SSA by children experiencing less hugs ... from teachers etc?

[california boy]

Man grows up in a Mormon household where he is taught that being gay is evil, a sin and his soul is doomed to hell if he engages in it.  Out of fear he turns heterosexual, marries a woman, has children, but through understanding and education, he overcomes his heterosexuality and is finally able to be gay.

What was the real orientation in this case and the case above.  Does anyone else have any antidotal stores they want to tell that proves their beliefs?

[california boy]

How about this one.  Man grows up in the Mormon church.  Later discoveries that the church has not told the truth in its history.  He leaves the Mormon church and goes on to lead others away from the church.  So therefore, anyone who studies Mormon history more closely can break free of the Mormon church.  They just have to find Christ who will surely lead others away as well.

[rpn]

Fact is that yes, there are environmental factors that can affect choices in some cases.   There is research suggesting hormones in utero may be one.  There are certainly kids whose abuse results in them thinking they are gay and acting as though they are gay, and sexual experimentation in teens and college kids that lead them to same gender attraction.

But there are also cases where there is nothing indicating any environmental factors.  

One example does not a fact establish.   The official church position is that we do not know what causes same gender attraction.

[Robert F. Smith]

15 minutes ago, california boy said:

Man grows up in a Mormon household where he is taught that being gay is evil, a sin and his soul is doomed to hell if he engages in it.  Out of fear he turns heterosexual, marries a woman, has children, but through understanding and education, he overcomes his heterosexuality and is finally able to be gay.

What was the real orientation in this case and the case above.  Does anyone else have any antidotal stores they want to tell that proves their beliefs?

There are several paths or etiologies to homosexuality, but anecdotal stories have no value -- except in the aggregate, and as part of a large, professional study.  Advising a homosexual to marry and so become heterosexual is particularly bad advice, and will likely destroy an entire family.  In cases where the actual gender orientation was known before marriage (as in the case of Carol Lynn Pearson's husband), it is not helpful to ignore reality.

[california boy]

21 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

There are several paths or etiologies to homosexuality, but anecdotal stories have no value -- except in the aggregate, and as part of a large, professional study.  Advising a homosexual to marry and so become heterosexual is particularly bad advice, and will likely destroy an entire family.  In cases where the actual gender orientation was known before marriage (as in the case of Carol Lynn Pearson's husband), it is not helpful to ignore reality.

Of course.  I can't even believe someone would start a thread with this kind of "evidence" .  But we all do love our let's attack the gays for being gay threads don't we.  If the gays would just find Jesus like the Mormons, then they would all want to be celibate their whole lives or marry a woman.

Edited October 29, 2016 by california boy

[ALarson]

18 minutes ago, california boy said:

 I can't even believe someone would start a thread with this kind of "evidence" ...If the gays would just find Jesus like the Mormons, then they would all want to be celibate their whole lives or marry a woman.

I agree.  I feel really bad for the man linked to in the OP.  I do hope he's found peace and a life that works for him (and his family), but these types of marriages have been disastrous for so many who are gay and try to "fix" or "cure" themselves by marrying the opposite sex.  I wish him well though.

.

Edited October 29, 2016 by ALarson

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, RevTestament said:

Man says he had a poor father figure who did not express his love, and then was exposed to homosexual behavior while a child and became addicted, but that after accepting Christ, found his homosexual desires abating

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ex-gay-homosexuality-is-just-another-human-brokenness

Although this man seems to have been on the "outer edge of homosexuality" as he did finally marry, I believe his story offers hope to those with SSA who are open to trying to follow Christ and live a traditional heterosexual marriage, and perhaps offer clues as to how people end up with SSA. I have often felt like the biggest plague in our society is a lack of love. There are so many growing up without adequate feeling of love from their parents that they seek other ways of finding it. It is only "natural" that some boys will find it with other young boys, which pattern continues. I wonder what percentage of homosexuals will say these types of feelings happened in their childhood.

What percentage of homosexuals believe Yeshua helped abate their SSA? Are there any such statistics? If they have a hetero marriage does that help, and is it fair to the spouse? Is our society which has become so afraid of invading the personal space of others causing more to have SSA by children experiencing less hugs ... from teachers etc?

I think it can and does happen this way.  I know at least one other person with a similar history.

[california boy]

11 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I think it can and does happen this way.  I know at least one other person with a similar history.

I also think a straight person can act out being gay because of environmental abuse or other conditions.  But I don't think a person can become gay thorough these types of conditions.  It is no different than a gay person action out being straight because of environmental abuse or other conditions.  I don't think a gay person can become straight.

Sorry for so many posts on this thread.  I will not be around a computer a lot for the next couple of days and wanted to give my perspective on this thread and the issues it brings up.  It will be interesting to check in occasionally for the next few days and see where this all leads. 

[James Tunney]

I have to agree that while it's possible that some might have same-sex experiences based on environmental causal factors (although I haven't seen it personally).  My experience growing up around a few individuals who seemed to have same-sex predilections from a young age seems to point to biological factors.  They are out today.  So, in the aggregate, I am not surprised that researchers seem to be leaning toward a biological explanation for LGBTQ persons.  Perhaps in the future society can finally lay the issue to rest once the cause is definitively shown.

[The Nehor]

Yes, situations of abuse, trauma, or even just weird life circumstances can exacerbate deviant sexual behavior (before anyone throws anything at me in this case I mean deviant to mean against their normal sexual inclinations). Homosexuality, heterosexuality, sexual fetishes, and even predatory sexual behavior can result from this. To expect someone with SSA not currently suffering from some kind of trauma to take hope from this is kind of odd.

May find hope - Someone raped by their father and other male figures and acts out homosexual behaviors to try to find the paternal love they long for. Can seek out therapy and make positive life choices to find out if these desires are more fundamental or just a bad coping mechanism. I know of a case where a guy wanted to act out abusing women in sexual situations to cope with trauma from his abusive mom. Later when he sorted himself out he came out as bisexual. No idea what is going on in his head at this point. Long story short: ABUSE BAD!

Probably not find hope in that story - Comes from a relatively stable background with no abuse and has always preferred their own gender.

Edited October 29, 2016 by The Nehor

[RevTestament]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

Of course.  I can't even believe someone would start a thread with this kind of "evidence" .  But we all do love our let's attack the gays for being gay threads don't we.  If the gays would just find Jesus like the Mormons, then they would all want to be celibate their whole lives or marry a woman.

 

1 hour ago, ALarson said:

I agree.  I feel really bad for the man linked to in the OP.  I do hope he's found peace and a life that works for him (and his family), but these types of marriages have been disastrous for so many who are gay and try to "fix" or "cure" themselves by marrying the opposite sex.  I wish him well though.

.

Oh please, I don't need your false concern or your attempt to "rebrand" my questions into gay vs hetero. I generally don't do "crusading" on this issue, but I believe there is a legitimate issue here. I am not trying to prove anything, but I have noted several cases of men who thought they were gay, and later changed their mind or who marry happily and live a heterosexual lifestyle in the church. I can't help it if you don't like what they have to say. As an "outsider" or hetero I am somewhat dependent on what those involved themselves have to say about it. How come when gays start threads on the issue "love and concern" pile in, but when a hetero starts a thread on the issue trying to shed light on how men and women may end up choosing a gay life it is not valid "evidence?" Do I have no valid evidence to offer just because I am hetero? Or because I am LDS? Are lawyers responsible for making up evidence for their clients or something? Do those who start their sex life with SSA, and later decide to switch have no valid "evidence" to offer on the issue? Honestly, my life could be easier. I wish I had a nice, easy life, but I am not promoting that gays get married to make it easier for everybody or something like that. If you read my OP again, I asked if that is fair to the spouse? I think that is a very legitimate question. Certainly someone who is homosexual and interested in changing, needs help in their life to do so. How should relationships be pursued? Does letting a potential hetero spouse know ones SSA answer these concerns?

[ALarson]

14 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

 

Oh please, I don't need your false concern or your attempt to "rebrand" my questions into gay vs hetero.

Wow.

You do not know me well enough to insult me and accuse me of being "false" with my feelings regarding the man in the OP.  I read what was written about him and even looked up his book and read more.  I do feel bad for him, hope he's found peace and wish him well.   And even church leaders (and others) no longer advise gay members to enter into a heterosexual marriage after seeing how many of these ended in pain, heart break and horrible situations for all involved (especially when children are involved).  It's a tough topic, but I was being honest in my response.

. 

.

 

Edited October 29, 2016 by ALarson

[RevTestament]

2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

There are several paths or etiologies to homosexuality, but anecdotal stories have no value -- except in the aggregate, and as part of a large, professional study.  Advising a homosexual to marry and so become heterosexual is particularly bad advice, and will likely destroy an entire family.  In cases where the actual gender orientation was known before marriage (as in the case of Carol Lynn Pearson's husband), it is not helpful to ignore reality.

Of course I am not advising any homosexual to get married to cure his or her homosexuality. I hope that is not what you are saying.

I strongly disagree with you that "anecdotal stories" have no value. Anecdotal stories of the spirit working in the lives of people - all sinners - is what the church offers others in their own lives. I believe that is or should be immensely important to the spiritual lives of other members of the church, and should be why we give testimonies. This is one reason why I personally don't really care too much for the new trend to bear testimonies without story. Story offers the listener a way to identify with the bearer of the testimony. Certainly not all will make that connection, but some will. For some it is important. For some it will offer hope, etc.

[RevTestament]

11 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Wow.

You do not know me well enough to insult me and accuse me of being "false" with my feelings regarding the man in the OP.  I read what was written about him and even looked up his book and read more.  I do feel bad for him, hope he's found peace and wish him well.   And even church leaders (and others) no longer advise gay members to enter into a heterosexual marriage after seeing how many of these ended in pain, heart break and horrible situations for all involved (especially when children are involved).  It's a tough topic, but I was being honest in my response.

OK, I accept that. I at first thought you were referring to me as "the man in the OP" so I didn't understand what you were saying.

[Kevin Christensen]

2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

There are several paths or etiologies to homosexuality, but anecdotal stories have no value -- except in the aggregate, and as part of a large, professional study.  Advising a homosexual to marry and so become heterosexual is particularly bad advice, and will likely destroy an entire family.  In cases where the actual gender orientation was known before marriage (as in the case of Carol Lynn Pearson's husband), it is not helpful to ignore reality.

Regarding the paradigmatic story of Carol Lynn Pearson's husband, and its implications as paradigmatic, I wrote "A Mormon Rashomon: Three Books by Pearson, Fales, and Pearson.

http://www.squaretwo.org/Sq2ArticleChristensenRashomon.html

There is, I think, more to the story than Pearson, Fales, and Pearson recognize.

Even if a person believes that they were born gay and that homosexuality is inborn, unchangeable, and eternal, that doesn't mean that such a person cannot demonstrate sex addiction.  And a person who is not an un-diagnosed sex addict, and who has done recovery work to heal can find that sex becomes optional, rather then their "most important need", their first and great commandment, and the foundation and highest priority not only of their social life and inner life, but consequently, inevitably, the center of their political and spiritual thought.  And that is true for people who are oriented toward heterosexuality, homosexuality, or even a man I know whose trigger happened to be anything he hadn't done yet.

I know several men who have had a great deal of homosexual activity in their lives, countless partners, who can both affirm and demonstrate that they can live differently with recovery, not from the attraction, but from the addiction.   One thing about raising the possibility of sex addiction as a relevant factor in behavior is that it also looks at the foundational, paradigmatic narratives of contemporary discourse and raises questions that threaten a "most important need."

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

 

36 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

 

Edited October 29, 2016 by Kevin Christensen

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

I also think a straight person can act out being gay because of environmental abuse or other conditions.  But I don't think a person can become gay thorough these types of conditions.  It is no different than a gay person action out being straight because of environmental abuse or other conditions.  I don't think a gay person can become straight.

Sorry for so many posts on this thread.  I will not be around a computer a lot for the next couple of days and wanted to give my perspective on this thread and the issues it brings up.  It will be interesting to check in occasionally for the next few days and see where this all leads. 

I never said otherwise.  I have learned that repetitive posts deflate each one's value to the community until people just skip them.

[mfbukowski]

58 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

 

Oh please, I don't need your false concern or your attempt to "rebrand" my questions into gay vs hetero. I generally don't do "crusading" on this issue, but I believe there is a legitimate issue here. I am not trying to prove anything, but I have noted several cases of men who thought they were gay, and later changed their mind or who marry happily and live a heterosexual lifestyle in the church. I can't help it if you don't like what they have to say. As an "outsider" or hetero I am somewhat dependent on what those involved themselves have to say about it. How come when gays start threads on the issue "love and concern" pile in, but when a hetero starts a thread on the issue trying to shed light on how men and women may end up choosing a gay life it is not valid "evidence?" Do I have no valid evidence to offer just because I am hetero? Or because I am LDS? Are lawyers responsible for making up evidence for their clients or something? Do those who start their sex life with SSA, and later decide to switch have no valid "evidence" to offer on the issue? Honestly, my life could be easier. I wish I had a nice, easy life, but I am not promoting that gays get married to make it easier for everybody or something like that. If you read my OP again, I asked if that is fair to the spouse? I think that is a very legitimate question. Certainly someone who is homosexual and interested in changing, needs help in their life to do so. How should relationships be pursued? Does letting a potential hetero spouse know ones SSA answer these concerns?

I guess only heterosexual men can decide they are gay and leave their families.  Going the other way is not permitted in today's society.  Clearly men with ssm who decide to marry women are only repressing their innate homosexuality while men behaving as if they are heterosexual who realize they are gay are liberating themselves from the oppression of society.

Gosh- don't you know how this works?

Edited October 29, 2016 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

In the '60's those of us in the counter-culture took it as a paradigm that everyone was bisexual with either a little more hetero side or a little more homo side.  How anyone decided to behave was up to them- "do your own thing".  That means everyone was free to cultivate your preferences, and on the other hand, everyone was free to decide if a particular behavior was right or wrong and act accordingly.

So on one hand, this attitude can be seen as an "anti-LDS paradigm" or a "pro-LDS/free agency" paradigm.  We are free to choose our behaviors and bear the consequences either way.

Now we have gone backwards into a "born this way" paradigm.

Odd that a 60's counter-culture view would now be seen as "conservative", and it's amazing how much we have moved backwards toward determinism.

We used to believe we could actually create our lives to be the way we wanted them to be.  Now?  Everything is someone else's fault.

Interesting direction.  I don't like the notion of projecting that forward as a trend, but it is what it is.

We are going backwards toward "1984" having learned nothing.  Odd because IN 1984, we thought we were beyond that.

Sad stuff.

Edited October 29, 2016 by mfbukowski

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, RevTestament said:

Of course I am not advising any homosexual to get married to cure his or her homosexuality. I hope that is not what you are saying.

I strongly disagree with you that "anecdotal stories" have no value. Anecdotal stories of the spirit working in the lives of people - all sinners - is what the church offers others in their own lives. I believe that is or should be immensely important to the spiritual lives of other members of the church, and should be why we give testimonies. This is one reason why I personally don't really care too much for the new trend to bear testimonies without story. Story offers the listener a way to identify with the bearer of the testimony. Certainly not all will make that connection, but some will. For some it is important. For some it will offer hope, etc.

My reply was to californiaboy, so you ought not to conclude that I was speaking to your story.  In general, however, scientists place no value at all on anecdotal accounts, except in the aggregate (for statistical sampling), and provided that they include careful observation and testing.  Making haphazard claims based on an inadequate sample is very dangerous.  Telling a personal story in a Sacrament Meeting is another matter entirely.

[RevTestament]

31 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I guess only heterosexual men can decide they are gay and leave their families.  Going the other way is not permitted in today's society.  Clearly men with ssm who decide to marry women are only repressing their innate homosexuality while men behaving as if they are heterosexual who realize they are gay are liberating themselves from the oppression of society.

Gosh- don't you know how this works?

Gosh, at least someone seems to understand the point of this thread  Thanks for chipping in.

I feel kinda like I'm sticking my head out on the chopping block on this issue, but when I read the man's story, I was impressed with questions like how does/should the church help someone who wants to change? My feeling is there are homosexuals out there who may want to change. They may wish to lead a traditional life. Is that possible? What can we as church members best do to help them do that? I think another valid question is if there is evidence that at least not all homosexuality is biological, what can parents do guide there children into a traditional life? I realize that last question  is the charged one, but this particular case seems to raise it. As I said in my OP I have long believed our society suffers from a lack of love. Many children do not feel loved. They feel separated or isolated from the rest of society. For many children school is more of a contest than a family. Both parents work, and the kids are more isolated than they used to be it seems to me. It seems to me that this manifests itself in various "abnormal" or obsessive ways. But it is so prevalent that it is the new normal. Kids are looking to have their needs met however they can - that can lead to "abnormal" compulsions. 

I don't view homosexuality as a sex addiction, but sex addiction is one of the ailments I believe this "new normal" has generated. There certainly does seem to be a large preoccupation with sex in our society. But there are many others. What I'm saying is that realizing this, and addressing it would definitely be part of a change back to the traditional family which I view as the last safe haven for kids, but I guess that in itself is up for debate in the "new normal."

I think Smith's reaction in his post is exactly why I posted this thread. Is there hope for the homosexual who wants to change or will their attempt to change and marry a heterosexual partner be viewed or greeted with alarm by both homosexuals and hetero members of the church? The man in my OP seems to indicate it can be done through Yeshua. It is a difficult area, and sometimes it is messy. If someone just never meets "that person" that gets any hormones going, I certainly am not telling them to get married anyway. As Robert points out that can lead to a lot of pain.

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Kevin Christensen said:

Regarding the paradigmatic story of Carol Lynn Pearson's husband, and its implications as paradigmatic, I wrote "A Mormon Rashomon: Three Books by Pearson, Fales, and Pearson.

http://www.squaretwo.org/Sq2ArticleChristensenRashomon.html

There is, I think, more to the story than Pearson, Fales, and Pearson recognize.

Even if a person believes that they were born gay and that homosexuality is inborn, unchangeable, and eternal, that doesn't mean that such a person cannot demonstrate sex addiction.  And a person who is not an un-diagnosed sex addict, and who has done recovery work to heal can find that sex becomes optional, rather then their "most important need", their first and great commandment, and the foundation and highest priority not only of their social life and inner life, but consequently, inevitably, the center of their political and spiritual thought.  And that is true for people who are oriented toward heterosexuality, homosexuality, or even a man I know whose trigger happened to be anything he hadn't done yet.

I know several men who have had a great deal of homosexual activity in their lives, countless partners, who can both affirm and demonstrate that they can live differently with recovery, not from the attraction, but from the addiction.   One thing about raising the possibility of sex addiction as a relevant factor in behavior is that it also looks at the foundational, paradigmatic narratives of contemporary discourse and raises questions that threaten a "most important need."

..............................  

An extraordinary piece, Kevin -- with awe-full clarity and meaning.  I simply had no idea.  Thank you.

 

[RevTestament]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

In the '60's those of us in the counter-culture took it as a paradigm that everyone was bisexual with either a little more hetero side or a little more homo side.  How anyone decided to behave was up to them- "do your own thing".  That means everyone was free to cultivate your preferences, and on the other hand, everyone was free to decide if a particular behavior was right or wrong and act accordingly.

So on one hand, this attitude can be seen as an "anti-LDS paradigm" or a "pro-LDS/free agency" paradigm.  We are free to choose our behaviors and bear the consequences either way.

Now we have gone backwards into a "born this way" paradigm.

Odd that a 60's counter-culture view would now be seen as "conservative", and it's amazing how much we have moved backwards toward determinism.

We used to believe we could actually create our lives to be the way we wanted them to be.  Now?  Everything is someone else's fault.

Interesting direction.  I don't like the notion of projecting that forward as a trend, but it is what it is.

We are going backwards toward "1984" having learned nothing.  Odd because IN 1984, we thought we were beyond that.

Sad stuff.

I was born in the 60's in a traditional conservative family, so I came of age in the rear-end of the "revolution." My heart goes out to those who are raised feeling unloved - for some it completely destroys their lives. In the inner cities many seem to fill this void with gang participation, etc.

In the US the church has traditionally appealed to the conservative segment like I was raised in. I think it has some difficulty showing it will reach out to those who wish to change, because it is an area not comfortable to membership. To help Yeshua heal people's lives can sometimes be a little messy, but I think the church has not bought into the "born this way" paradigm at least, and is trying to be a helping hand rather than a condemning one.

This story is a story which shows people can change, even down to very basic drives. I think part of that is understanding how the drive came into being, and that seems to happen at very young ages, which is why for some people it doesn't change. If homosexuals don't view that as a threat, and heterosexuals don't insist on it in people, I think society would be happier at least.

[ALarson]

5 hours ago, RevTestament said:

OK, I accept that. I at first thought you were referring to me as "the man in the OP" so I didn't understand what you were saying.

I understand...no problem.  I should have been more clear... 

[RevTestament]

4 hours ago, Kevin Christensen said:

Regarding the paradigmatic story of Carol Lynn Pearson's husband, and its implications as paradigmatic, I wrote "A Mormon Rashomon: Three Books by Pearson, Fales, and Pearson.

http://www.squaretwo.org/Sq2ArticleChristensenRashomon.html

There is, I think, more to the story than Pearson, Fales, and Pearson recognize.

Even if a person believes that they were born gay and that homosexuality is inborn, unchangeable, and eternal, that doesn't mean that such a person cannot demonstrate sex addiction.  And a person who is not an un-diagnosed sex addict, and who has done recovery work to heal can find that sex becomes optional, rather then their "most important need", their first and great commandment, and the foundation and highest priority not only of their social life and inner life, but consequently, inevitably, the center of their political and spiritual thought.  And that is true for people who are oriented toward heterosexuality, homosexuality, or even a man I know whose trigger happened to be anything he hadn't done yet.

I know several men who have had a great deal of homosexual activity in their lives, countless partners, who can both affirm and demonstrate that they can live differently with recovery, not from the attraction, but from the addiction.   One thing about raising the possibility of sex addiction as a relevant factor in behavior is that it also looks at the foundational, paradigmatic narratives of contemporary discourse and raises questions that threaten a "most important need."

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

 

Kevin, thank you for that piece. It is good to know that there is a treatment than can work for many people with addictions.

It has got to be affirming to learn that if you have an addiction, there is a possible "magic pill" type of treatment that can help overcome it. Now, all I need to do is invent one for alcoholics and gamblers