First Session of GC Sept 2016

[Rain]

7 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

One might not have been alert to this unless one was privy to a copy of President Uchtdorf's written text with footnotes, but four times in his talk he quoted from the New International Version of the Bible instead of the King James Version.

I know it is not uncommon for LDS scholars to cite Bible translations other than the King James Version in their writings and discourse. But as far as I am aware, this is the first time a Church leader has done that in a general conference talk. I suppose it's OK, since President Uchtdorf did it and he is a member of the First Presidency.

Is anyone here aware of any instance when that has happened before?

 

I could have sworn I heard that someone used a different version last year,  but I couldn't give you any idea who or when.  I could be wrong,  but it may be worth it to look at the last couple of years talks for some.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

I could have sworn I heard that someone used a different version last year,  but I couldn't give you any idea who or when.  I could be wrong,  but it may be worth it to look at the last couple of years talks for some.

More power to you. I'm not that ambitious. 

[Scott Lloyd]

The talk that President Dieter F. Uchtdorf gave Saturday night has been acclaimed here. Yet there are a couple of gems in that talk that so far have not been highlighted in this thread. They pertain to the exercise of faith in struggling with doubt or fear. President Uchtdorf illustrated each point with a separate story.

In one story, he told of how the family of his wife was introduced to the gospel. Two young missionaries serving in an area with few convert baptisms one day had the feeling to approach the residents of a four-story apartment building. They were rebuffed at each and every door until they came to the last one. There, a young girl smiled at them and asked them to wait while she spoke with her mother, who at age 36 had recently lost her husband and was in no mood to talk with Mormon missionaries.

But the daughter, President Uchtdorf's future wife, pleaded with her. The mother reluctantly agreed, and the missionaries delivered their message and handed her a copy of the Book of Mormon. Hesitantly she decided to read a few pages and had finished the entire book within a few days. Not long after, the family was baptized, and young Dieter, a deacon, met the daughter at church. They were eventually married.

This story could illustrate a variety of points, but President Uchtdorf used it to teach faith:

Quote

In our search for enduring faith, in our quest to connect with God and His purposes, let us remember the Lord's promise: Knock and it shall be opened unto you. Will we give up after knocking on a door or two? Or will we keep seeking until we have reached the fourth floor, the last door?"

The other story he shared was of a little girl out walking with her grandmother. The sound of the birds was glorious to the girl, and she pointed out every sound to her grandmother who, hard of hearing, could not discern them.

 Finally the grandmother said, "I'm sorry dear, Grandma doesn't hear so well."

Exasperated, the girl said "Grandma, listen harder!"

President Uchtdorf said:

Quote

 

There are lessons in this story for both the non-believer and the believer. Just because we can't hear something doesn't mean there's nothing to hear. Two people can listen to the same message or read the same scripture and one might feel the witness of the Spirit while the other one doesn't. On the other hand, in our efforts to help our loved ones experience the voice of the Spirit and the vast eternal and profound beauty of the gospel of Jesus Christ, telling them to listen harder may not be the most helpful way.

Perhaps better advice for anyone who wants to increase faith is to listen differently. The apostle Paul encouraged us to seek the voice that speaks to our spirit, not just to our ears. He taught, "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."

Or perhaps we should consider the words of Saint-Exupery's "Little Prince," who said, "One sees clearly only with the heart. Anything essential is invisible to the eyes."

 

To me, President Uchtdorf here seems to be teaching the concept that discerning spiritual truth requires a receptiveness that is not compatible with cynicism, arrogance, pride, hostility, anger or mistrust, that one's heart must be in the right state, that attitude matters.

This will be a difficult concept for some to accept, because they believe (or seem to) that their attitude is immutable, that they have no control over it, that they cannot choose to change.

However, the scriptures teach otherwise. In Alma 32, Alma invited the Zoramites to experiment with what he taught them by changing their hearts, even if they could do no more at first than develop a desire to believe. He said they could let this desire work within them until they could give place in their hearts for faith that would eventually grow.

When Jesus encountered a man who sought a miracle on behalf of his afflicted son, Jesus asked him if he believed He had power to do this. The man said tearfully, "Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief." This suggests that we can ask for divine help as we seek a change in our hearts so we can express faith and discern things of the Spirit.

All of this, of course, relates to the parable of the sower distributing seed that fell in different kinds of soil, each kind representing the receptiveness or lack thereof with which individuals receive the word of God and exercise faith. To listen "differently" implies that we can alter or enrich the content of our soil, if need be, so that the seed of faith can sprout and flourish.

Though President Uchtdorf didn't use this parable in his talk, I believe it illustrates what he says in suggesting that good "advice for anyone who wants to increase faith is to listen differently."

 

Edited September 27, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[bluebell]

10 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The talk that President Dieter F. Uchtdorf gave Saturday night has been acclaimed here. Yet there are a couple of gems in that talk that so far have not been highlighted in this thread. They pertain to the exercise of faith in struggling with doubt or fear. President Uchtdorf illustrated each point with a separate story.

In one story, he told of how the family of his wife was introduced to the gospel. Two young missionaries serving in an area with few convert baptisms one day had the feeling to approach the residents of a four-story apartment building. They were rebuffed at each and every door until they came to the last one. There, a young girl smiled at them and asked them to wait while she spoke with her mother, who at age 36 had recently lost her husband and was in no mood to talk with Mormon missionaries.

But the daughter, President Uchtdorf's future wife, pleaded with her. The mother reluctantly agreed, and the missionaries delivered their message and handed her a copy of the Book of Mormon. Hesitantly she decided to read a few pages and had finished the entire book within a few days. Not long after, the family was baptized, and young Dieter, a deacon, met the daughter at church. They were eventually married.

This story could illustrate a variety of points, but President Uchtdorf used it to teach faith:

The other story he shared was of a little girl out walking with her grandmother. The sound of the birds was glorious to the girl, and she pointed out every sound to her grandmother who, hard of hearing, could not discern them.

 Finally the grandmother said, "I'm sorry dear, Grandma doesn't hear so well."

Exasperated, the girl said "Grandma, listen harder!"

President Uchtdorf said:

To me, President Uchtdorf here seems to be teaching the concept that discerning spiritual truth requires a receptiveness that is not compatible with cynicism, arrogance, pride, hostility, anger or mistrust, that one's heart must be in the right state, that attitude matters.

This will be a difficult concept for some to accept, because they believe (or seem to) that their attitude is immutable, that they have no control over it, that they cannot choose to change.

However, the scriptures teach otherwise. In Alma 32, Alma invited the Zoramites to experiment with what he taught them by changing their hearts, even if they could do no more at first than develop a desire to believe. He said they could let this desire work within them until they could give place in their hearts for faith that would eventually grow.

When Jesus encountered a man who sought a miracle on behalf of his afflicted son, Jesus asked him if he believed He had power to do this. The man said tearfully, "Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief." This suggests that we can ask for divine help as we seek a change in our hearts so we can express faith and discern things of the Spirit.

All of this, of course, relates to the parable of the sower distributing seed that fell in different kinds of soil, each kind representing the receptiveness or lack thereof with which individuals receive the word of God and exercise faith. To listen "differently" implies that we can alter or enrich the content of our soil, if need be, so that the seed of faith can sprout and flourish.

Though President Uchtdorf didn't use this parable in his talk, I believe it illustrates what he says in suggesting that good "advice for anyone who wants to increase faith is to listen differently."

 

It's also an equally great lesson for those who have faith, that telling someone who struggles with it to essentially 'try harder' doesn't help and is actually an immature way to approach such people.  Good stuff!  

Along these same lines the thing that stood out to me was when Pres. Uchtdorf was talking about paying the price of faith and that if we are not willing to pay the price, we will miss out. I needed to hear that.

Edited September 27, 2016 by bluebell

[Scott Lloyd]

1 minute ago, bluebell said:

It's also an equally great lesson for those who have faith, that telling someone who struggles with it to essentially 'try harder' doesn't help and is actually an immature way to approach such people.  Good stuff!  

Along these same lines the thing that stood out to me was when Pres. Uchtdorf was talking about paying the price of faith and that if we are willing to pay the price, we will miss out. I needed to hear that.

I think you meant to say, "If we are not willing to pay the price ...."

[Boanerges]

I'm looking forward to the printed version of Pres. Uchtdorf's talk. I generally really like his talks and this was no exception. Having listened to it only once, I really liked what he said about what faith doesn't do because what he said is in direct opposition to the prosperity gospel that's very prevalent in some places. Much like the Jews who were looking for a warrior Messiah to free them from their captors hence missing the Messiah who freed them from spiritual captivity, I think sometimes we are prone to believe that faith brings us worldly blessings. Sometimes in the midst of looking for and expecting those physical/temporal blessings (which do happen) we miss the spiritual blessings. Faith can't change the free will of someone else and faith can't change our will to become God's will.

[Scott Lloyd]

28 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It's also an equally great lesson for those who have faith, that telling someone who struggles with it to essentially 'try harder' doesn't help and is actually an immature way to approach such people. 

That's true -- although listening "differently" can itself be hard work if it entails changing one's own attitude as I have suggested here.

[juliann]

On 9/26/2016 at 11:53 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

 

One might not have been alert to this unless one was privy to a copy of President Uchtdorf's written text with footnotes, but four times in his talk he quoted from the New International Version of the Bible instead of the King James Version.

I know it is not uncommon for LDS scholars to cite Bible translations other than the King James Version in their writings and discourse. But as far as I am aware, this is the first time a Church leader has done that in a general conference talk. I suppose it's OK, since President Uchtdorf did it and he is a member of the First Presidency.

Is anyone here aware of any instance when that has happened before?

 

Thanks for pointing that out! There have been a couple (or at least one) instance where it was noted that a GC speaker used another translation, I think only on a single verse, though. This is good to hear. I used the NRSV exclusively in my last sacrament meeting talk on Christ. It was so wonderful to be able to merge actual verses into a common language narrative without the interruption of archaic words.

[Scott Lloyd]

53 minutes ago, juliann said:

Thanks for pointing that out! There have been a couple (or at least one) instance where it was noted that a GC speaker used another translation, I think only on a single verse, though. This is good to hear. I used the NRSV exclusively in my last sacrament meeting talk on Christ. It was so wonderful to be able to merge actual verses into a common language narrative without the interruption of archaic words.

I am not at all opposed to reading, studying, and even quoting from more modern translations of the Bible. I carry a dozen or so of them in an app on my iPod for that purpose.

But I think, for the present, I will continue to use the King James Version for the most part. I learned a few years ago, during the 500th anniversary of the King James translation that it was expressly written in a manner that would sound majestic, even divine. To me, that lends an air of reverence that befits scriptural passages, especially when they are read aloud

Moreover, the research findings of Royal Skousen pertaining to the text of the Book of Mormon -- that it bears the earmarks of Early Modern English stemming from the 16th century, characteristics with which Joseph Smith could not have been familiar in the milieu in which he was reared -- suggests to me that perhaps it is in accordance with the divine will that the Book of Mormon was brought forth in phrasing that resembles the King James Translation of the Bible and that we are intended to have our scripture in that form.

For my own part, my favorite version of the Bible is the Joseph Smith Translation, as it contains amendments that have come forth via revelation. Wherever I think it makes a significant difference in meaning, I will quote from the JST or at least acknowledge the variance.

[Calm]

Print versions are now available.

Bo, here is Pres. utchdorf's:  

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/10/fourth-floor-last-door?lang=eng

[Scott Lloyd]

I have it on the best of authority that the "Viewpoint" editorial appearing in this weekend's Church News highlights the messages given at the general women's session and emphasizes the point that we all should heed them, not just the women of the Church.

 

[The Nehor]

Started listening to this session when I go jogging. Best Relief Society session I have listened to lately.

[Guest]

On September 26, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Rain said:

It has been an odd thing to me.  My parents never made it seem like it was a male thing yet I have met a number of women who go to their husbands on doctrine rather than search themselves. Perhaps it is a normal imbalance when men go on missions. My dad didn't go, but I did. I feel like my husband and I are balanced. One of the things I have taught my daughter is that if she doesn't choose to go that she still should search the scriptures and learn them well so there isn't that imbalance when the guys get home. 

For a very long time, almost every Priesthood meeting was centered around scripture and doctrine. While Relief Society had different classes, on different topics. Now the meetings are at least 50% of the time on the same topic from and the same text.