Should believers be concerned?

[6EQUJ5]

There's been a lot of talk about subjects lately that have me a bit worried.  I enjoy gospel discussion and even speculation but I've seen some ideas being proposed that seem so opposed to the long-time teachings of the Church. I'm suprised that they aren't just rejected by believing LDS.  But it seems like some LDS actually embrace and promote these ideas.  

* Belief in a non-historical Book of Mormon is OK

* Abortion is being proudly promoted by an *employee of the Church*

* Joseph Smith didn't translate the BoM

and more ....

These ideas seem so out of place with the things I've been taught in Church for decades.  

[ttribe]

1 minute ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

There's been a lot of talk about subjects lately that have me a bit worried.  I enjoy gospel discussion and even speculation but I've seen some ideas being proposed that seem so opposed to the long-time teachings of the Church. I'm suprised that they aren't just rejected by believing LDS.  But it seems like some LDS actually embrace and promote these ideas.  

* Belief in a non-historical Book of Mormon is OK

* Abortion is being proudly promoted by an *employee of the Church*

* Joseph Smith didn't translate the BoM

and more ....

These ideas seem so out of place with the things I've been taught in Church for decades.  

That's a pretty gross mis-characterization of what maklelan said.

[cinepro]

2 hours ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

There's been a lot of talk about subjects lately that have me a bit worried.  I enjoy gospel discussion and even speculation but I've seen some ideas being proposed that seem so opposed to the long-time teachings of the Church. I'm suprised that they aren't just rejected by believing LDS.  But it seems like some LDS actually embrace and promote these ideas.  

* Belief in a non-historical Book of Mormon is OK

* Abortion is being proudly promoted by an *employee of the Church*

* Joseph Smith didn't translate the BoM

and more ....

These ideas seem so out of place with the things I've been taught in Church for decades.  

I assume the first point is referring to Grant Hardy's talk, where he said:

Quote

 

For me, I expect to see the resurrected Nephi and Moroni at the judgment bar. It matters to me that they are real individuals. At the same time, I’m not sure that God will ask, “Did you believe the right things about the Trinity, Joseph Smith, the plan of salvation, and the nature of revelation,” let alone my opinions about polygamy, same-sex marriage, blacks and the priesthood, women’s ordination, politics, or Mormon history. Rather, I believe he will say, “Were you my disciple? Did you strive to know me better? Were you constantly trying to refine your ideas and actions in light of your growing understanding? Were you fully engaged in the Church? How did you treat those with different beliefs and values? And by the way, you were wrong on a number of things you felt strongly about.”

If that's what your referring to, I'm not sure you summarized it well.

As for the second two points, can you provide the quotes?

Edited August 23, 2016 by cinepro

[cinepro]

But if learning that you've been taught things in Church that are incorrect for decades bothers you, then I would advise browsing this board sitting down. 

 

[Bobbieaware]

2 hours ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

There's been a lot of talk about subjects lately that have me a bit worried.  I enjoy gospel discussion and even speculation but I've seen some ideas being proposed that seem so opposed to the long-time teachings of the Church. I'm suprised that they aren't just rejected by believing LDS.  But it seems like some LDS actually embrace and promote these ideas.  

* Belief in a non-historical Book of Mormon is OK

* Abortion is being proudly promoted by an *employee of the Church*

* Joseph Smith didn't translate the BoM

and more ....

These ideas seem so out of place with the things I've been taught in Church for decades.  

The adversary diligently works at asserting his influence anywhere and everywhere he is able to do so and, most assuredly, this discussion board is no exception.

[ttribe]

1 minute ago, Bobbieaware said:

The adversary diligently works at asserting his influence anywhere and everywhere he is able to do so and, most assuredly, this discussion board is no exception.

[CV75]

2 hours ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

There's been a lot of talk about subjects lately that have me a bit worried.  I enjoy gospel discussion and even speculation but I've seen some ideas being proposed that seem so opposed to the long-time teachings of the Church. I'm suprised that they aren't just rejected by believing LDS.  But it seems like some LDS actually embrace and promote these ideas.  

* Belief in a non-historical Book of Mormon is OK

* Abortion is being proudly promoted by an *employee of the Church*

* Joseph Smith didn't translate the BoM

and more ....

These ideas seem so out of place with the things I've been taught in Church for decades.  

They are out of place, but I can easily envision each one having been held by some (who lacked the media pulpit they might enjoy today) even in Joseph Smith's day. And other things that led to splinter groups at the time (an approach now considered too derivative and ineffective in engaging in and proclaiming things other than what constitutes "the fundamental principles of our religion").

[cinepro]

5 minutes ago, CV75 said:

They are out of place, but I can easily envision each one having been held by some (who lacked the media pulpit they might enjoy today) even in Joseph Smith's day. And other things that led to splinter groups at the time (an approach now considered too derivative and ineffective in engaging in and proclaiming things other than what constitutes "the fundamental principles of our religion").

Indeed, I've heard it said that there was a member of the First Presidency in Nauvoo who "proudly promoted abortion." 

So while it may be shocking to have a modern day LDS say such things, they wouldn't be the first or highest ranking LDS to have done so.

[maklelan]

2 hours ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

There's been a lot of talk about subjects lately that have me a bit worried.  I enjoy gospel discussion and even speculation but I've seen some ideas being proposed that seem so opposed to the long-time teachings of the Church. I'm suprised that they aren't just rejected by believing LDS.  But it seems like some LDS actually embrace and promote these ideas.  

* Belief in a non-historical Book of Mormon is OK

* Abortion is being proudly promoted by an *employee of the Church*

* Joseph Smith didn't translate the BoM

and more ....

These ideas seem so out of place with the things I've been taught in Church for decades.  

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't misrepresent my position on this board.

[CV75]

2 minutes ago, cinepro said:

Indeed, I've heard it said that there was a member of the First Presidency in Nauvoo who "proudly promoted abortion." 

So while it may be shocking to have a modern day LDS say such things, they wouldn't be the first or highest ranking LDS to have done so.

I'm thinking of John C. Bennet (quickly excommunicated). The non-historical and didn't translate (the easiest thing to assume) charges sound familiar too.

[Sky]

There is more than one way to be an orthodox, believing Mormon.  What that looks like for maklelan may be different for Bobbieaware. Or for me.  

Especially when it involves partisan political considerations.  It is not realistic in a church of almost 16 million people to expect everybody to agree on everything.

Can we give each other a little lattitude and space to think for ourselves and come to our own conclusions?  

[Guest]

4 hours ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

There's been a lot of talk about subjects lately that have me a bit worried.  I enjoy gospel discussion and even speculation but I've seen some ideas being proposed that seem so opposed to the long-time teachings of the Church. I'm suprised that they aren't just rejected by believing LDS.  But it seems like some LDS actually embrace and promote these ideas.  

* Belief in a non-historical Book of Mormon is OK

* Abortion is being proudly promoted by an *employee of the Church*

* Joseph Smith didn't translate the BoM

and more ....

These ideas seem so out of place with the things I've been taught in Church for decades.  

Could you expand one these topics, each of your bullet points are issues raise by anti-Mormon websites for the most part, and threads in theory by those who are disaffected. Also what is the "and more..."? Especially the point about "Abortion being proudly presents promoted". The Church has not changed it teachings on the topics that you have listed. The Church teaches and members still believe that Joseph Smith translated the BoM. Abortion (or the teaching thereof) is still a serious sin. The Church and individuals in the Church believe the historical and doctrinal writtings contained within the Book of Mormon. 

[waveslider]

I think anyone who comes to this board to see what most LDS members believe, have come to the wrong place! There are a lot of people here who obviously aren't trying to live their lives based off of what the Holy Spirit teaches them, but rather by what ever perceived proofs or evidences they can find. Basically they won't believe anything until they see it, or at least have an accredited person of secular authority state what they believe as fact, and have it published. Unfortunately there is also a lot of misinformation that gets put out there, and people tend to believe it based solely on the sources they come from, instead of the Holy Spirit of Truth giving them a little more discretion.

[JLHPROF]

4 hours ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

There's been a lot of talk about subjects lately that have me a bit worried.  I enjoy gospel discussion and even speculation but I've seen some ideas being proposed that seem so opposed to the long-time teachings of the Church. I'm suprised that they aren't just rejected by believing LDS.  But it seems like some LDS actually embrace and promote these ideas.

* Belief in a non-historical Book of Mormon is OK

* Abortion is being proudly promoted by an *employee of the Church*

* Joseph Smith didn't translate the BoM

and more ....

These ideas seem so out of place with the things I've been taught in Church for decades.

You and I virtually never agree when we discuss gospel and speculation.

But for once, I agree with you.  Skepticism, doubt, and progressive ideals seem to be the order of the day.

[Nevo]

6 hours ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

There's been a lot of talk about subjects lately that have me a bit worried.  I enjoy gospel discussion and even speculation but I've seen some ideas being proposed that seem so opposed to the long-time teachings of the Church. I'm suprised that they aren't just rejected by believing LDS.  But it seems like some LDS actually embrace and promote these ideas.  

* Belief in a non-historical Book of Mormon is OK

* Abortion is being proudly promoted by an *employee of the Church*

* Joseph Smith didn't translate the BoM

and more ....

These ideas seem so out of place with the things I've been taught in Church for decades.  

This group would appear to include people like Grant Hardy, Daniel Peterson, Jeffrey R. Holland, Royal Skousen, Stanford Carmack, and Robert F. Smith. Not the worst company.

 

Edited August 24, 2016 by Nevo

[sunstoned]

5 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

The adversary diligently works at asserting his influence anywhere and everywhere he is able to do so and, most assuredly, this discussion board is no exception.

Edited August 24, 2016 by sunstoned

[BCSpace]

Quote

Should believers be concerned?

Not any more than being concerned over "Fielding-McConkities"; those who erroneously believe the unofficially published works of Joseph Fielding Smith or Bruce R McConkie, two great Apostles btw, to be official doctrine. Those are a dying breed and those you mention are also a dying breed though not quite as dead, their 15 minutes of fame not being over yet.

Those who believe these things don't represent the Church or it's doctrine and they may fall away and perhaps take some with them if they do.  The Church itself won't change it's doctrine to match.  It can't because to do so would mean that God is a liar and that the Church never was restored by God or had any authority in the first place.  The BoM truly is the keystone of our religion.

[Sky]

4 hours ago, waveslider said:

I think anyone who comes to this board to see what most LDS members believe, have come to the wrong place! There are a lot of people here who obviously aren't trying to live their lives based off of what the Holy Spirit teaches them, but rather by what ever perceived proofs or evidences they can find. Basically they won't believe anything until they see it, or at least have an accredited person of secular authority state what they believe as fact, and have it published. Unfortunately there is also a lot of misinformation that gets put out there, and people tend to believe it based solely on the sources they come from, instead of the Holy Spirit of Truth giving them a little more discretion.

 

6 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

The adversary diligently works at asserting his influence anywhere and everywhere he is able to do so and, most assuredly, this discussion board is no exception.

 

 

This is a "Mormon Dialogue and Discussion Board."  We benefit from an exchange of ideas.  Patronizing, self-righteous, dismissive statements like the above don't help.  

I can be my own kind of Mormon and still be a faithful member.  I don't have to look and be like everybody else.    

[waveslider]

30 minutes ago, Sky said:

 

 

 

This is a "Mormon Dialogue and Discussion Board."  We benefit from an exchange of ideas.  Patronizing, self-righteous, dismissive statements like the above don't help.  

I can be my own kind of Mormon and still be a faithful member.  I don't have to look and be like everybody else.    

I don't think that what I have said is self righteous, or patronizing as you claim:

5 hours ago, waveslider said:

I think anyone who comes to this board to see what most LDS members believe, have come to the wrong place! There are a lot of people here who obviously aren't trying to live their lives based off of what the Holy Spirit teaches them, but rather by what ever perceived proofs or evidences they can find. Basically they won't believe anything until they see it, or at least have an accredited person of secular authority state what they believe as fact, and have it published. Unfortunately there is also a lot of misinformation that gets put out there, and people tend to believe it based solely on the sources they come from, instead of the Holy Spirit of Truth giving them a little more discretion.

Perhaps it was a little dismissive, but that is only because it is true that most members don't believe a lot of the outlandish claims that I see on this discussion board quite often. I wasn't even speaking of you personally when I stated the above. I am not saying you can't be your own kind of Mormon and still be a faithful member. Don't take it so personally. I am not saying everyone has to be a cookie cutter Mormon, looking and acting like everyone else, but it is true that most Mormons don't believe many of the view points expressed on this board. Many of these incorrect views are expressed by many outspoken individuals that make it sound like their view has to be the case, especially if there is some secular authority figure who has been published on a given subject. Many times those views are seen as more authentic than the words that have come out of a prophet's mouth, but those views aren't supported by a confirmation from the Holy Ghost, but rather by some secularist in whom they obviously trust more than a divine answer from deity.

In the church, especially in missionary work, the people are told to pray and ask God if things are true, as we study things out, not to wait until we get full evidence of absolutely everything before believing things. We are taught to run off of faith, not knowledge. We are taught that knowledge only comes after faith, not before faith. I'm not saying that we don't benefit from these discussions, but much of what is discussed here (at least from what I have personally experienced in my short stay here) doesn't actually reflect what most active Mormons believe. It is a fact that I am stating, not a patronizing, self righteous statement.... just a statement of fact. If someone wants to find out what most Mormons believe I think they should go to church and see for themselves, they should talk to the missionaries, and the other members, gaining an even better set of benefits from the exchange of ideas, than this board will ever offer anyone who wants to find out what most Mormons actually believe.

 

[Rajah Manchou]

8 hours ago, Sky said:

It is not realistic in a church of almost 16 million people to expect everybody to agree on everything.

Members of the Church probably couldn't even agree on how many members of the Church there are.

[Chaos]

Do not start threads to lecture other posters.