Eek! Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) One of the things I like most about Mormonism is the teaching that you have direct access to God the Holy Spirit as a source of guidance and insight. Maybe those aren't the exact words you'd use, but I think you get the idea. Ahab posted this in a recent thread, and I think it's brilliant: “The only thing I need to know any of our Lord's doctrine is the testimony of the Spirit bearing record to me. And yet some people act as if I should be primarily concerned with whether or not some teaching is "official Church doctrine".” So I have a few questions, if you guys don't mind, for anyone regardless of whether or not you have an LDS background: 1. How do you reliably distinguish the voice of the Holy Spirit from all your other internal voices? 2. What priority do you place on what the Holy Spirit tells you? Does it have as much importance in your belief system as it apparently does in Ahab's? Why or why not? 3. Have you ever learned some truth that you had not known before more or less directly from or through the Holy Spirit, and if so, would you be willing to share that experience with us? You can rephrase this question however you want if my wording doesn't fit right. My only request is, that this thread be a safe space for people to share personal beliefs and experiences, if they so choose, without being criticized for them. Thanks! Edited June 13, 2016 by Eek! 2
JLHPROF Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 30 minutes ago, Eek! said: One of the things I like most about Mormonism is the teaching that you have direct access to God the Holy Spirit as a source of guidance and insight. Maybe those aren't the exact words you'd use, but I think you get the idea. Ahab posted this in a recent thread, and I think it's brilliant: “The only thing I need to know any of our Lord's doctrine is the testimony of the Spirit bearing record to me. And yet some people act as if I should be primarily concerned with whether or not some teaching is "official Church doctrine".” So I have a few questions, if you guys don't mind, 1. How do you reliably distinguish the voice of the Holy Spirit from all your other internal voices? For me "peace" is the biggest factor. I am by nature an anxious and fearful person. When I take something to the Lord and I feel that sweet peaceful spirit accompanying the words of the still small voice I know it's unlikely to be coming from me. 2. What priority do you place on what the Holy Spirit tells you? Does it have as much importance in your belief system as it apparently does in Ahab's? Why or why not? It does have as much importance, but at the same time I also firmly believe God doesn't contradict himself and that God doesn't provide new revelation when there is already one to suit the case. So I probably lean towards the revealed word of God and confirm it through prayer rather than first seeking my own direct revelation on the subject. 3. Have you ever learned some truth that you had not known before more or less directly from or through the Holy Spirit, and if so, would you be willing to share that experience with us? I feel I have had many strokes of inspiration as Joseph said. "A person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation; for instance, when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas, so that by noticing it, you may find it fulfilled the same day or soon; [that is,] those things that were presented unto your minds by the Spirit of God, will come to pass; and thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation, until you become perfect in Christ Jesus. " I can't say for sure when they have come by the spirit and when they are me, but some I don't see how I could have come up with myself. 4
Ahab Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 For me there are 2 stages of discovery. Stage 1: Separating feelings/ ideas into 2 broad general categories/ divisions. One which "I" feel or think is good and the other which "I" feel or think is bad. And I try to be careful when sorting things out. Stage 2: Giving what I think are good feelings/ ideas a try, putting them to what I think is a good use for them. Underlying my system is the general idea that all good things, including good thoughts and good feelings, are God's or influenced by God while the bad thoughts or feelings are not influenced by God, unless God is just trying to help me learn what is bad. But generally God is more concerned with teaching me what is good instead of focusing on what is bad, so I associate the bad ideas and feelings more with Satan than with God. And the stronger I feel the influence of God through good thoughts and good feelings the more I feel the Spirit and influence of God are involved. Good feelings not being just what feels good to my physical body but also good to my spirit/ mind/ intellect. Considering the glory of God to be his high degree of intelligence. 1
The Nehor Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 2 hours ago, Eek! said: 1. How do you reliably distinguish the voice of the Holy Spirit from all your other internal voices? Practice. I can now discern that some things are clearly and definitely the Spirit, some I am not sure on, and some I know are my deranged imagination. It took time and a few mistakes but God tends to be very tolerant of such mistakes. 2. What priority do you place on what the Holy Spirit tells you? Does it have as much importance in your belief system as it apparently does in Ahab's? Why or why not? If I am sure I believe or do what I am told as best I can....unless I am angry at God which I like to think those days are behind me now. With stuff I am not sure I go with best judgement. If I really need to know I go to the Temple. If I do not get an answer there go back to best judgement. 3. Have you ever learned some truth that you had not known before more or less directly from or through the Holy Spirit, and if so, would you be willing to share that experience with us? You can rephrase this question however you want if my wording doesn't fit right. Yes, but can't share any doctrinal issues I learned whole cloth. If they were for everyone the Prophets and Apostles would be teaching them. Insights into taught doctrine are more common and can be shared. 3
Kevin Christensen Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 I wrote this a few years back: "A Model of Mormon Spiritual Experience." Among other things it has long detailed list of scriptures that describe how the Spirit communicates, divided according to whether addressing the mind or the heart. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22100469/model_of_experience.pdf FWIW Kevin Christensen Bethel Park, PA 4
mfbukowski Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 6 hours ago, Eek! said: One of the things I like most about Mormonism is the teaching that you have direct access to God the Holy Spirit as a source of guidance and insight. Maybe those aren't the exact words you'd use, but I think you get the idea. Ahab posted this in a recent thread, and I think it's brilliant: “The only thing I need to know any of our Lord's doctrine is the testimony of the Spirit bearing record to me. And yet some people act as if I should be primarily concerned with whether or not some teaching is "official Church doctrine".” So I have a few questions, if you guys don't mind, for anyone regardless of whether or not you have an LDS background: 1. How do you reliably distinguish the voice of the Holy Spirit from all your other internal voices? 2. What priority do you place on what the Holy Spirit tells you? Does it have as much importance in your belief system as it apparently does in Ahab's? Why or why not? 3. Have you ever learned some truth that you had not known before more or less directly from or through the Holy Spirit, and if so, would you be willing to share that experience with us? You can rephrase this question however you want if my wording doesn't fit right. My only request is, that this thread be a safe space for people to share personal beliefs and experiences, if they so choose, without being criticized for them. Thanks! It is important to remember that the spirit teaches us what WE individually need to know to get us closer to Christ. That means that perhaps if you worship rocks and trees, perhaps Islam will bring you closer to Christ- on your eternal journey if not right at the moment- then that may be the course God thinks you should follow perhaps for a lifetime even. If you are a drunk on skid row, and the only door which is open to Christ is the Salvation Army, God may lead you in that direction- for now. You don't teach differential calculus to an infant, you start with simple concepts and work up to more complex. So don't think that because I get one answer to a prayer and you get another, that one of us is "wrong". It means that I need to learn something other than what you need to learn right now The beauty of Mormonism is the idea of eternal progression and that we have eterntieS to grow and learn it all- at our own pace, learning line upon line and precept by precept. Even the savior himself did not know it all at once- at least not in this life. That is another way objective knowledge ie:scientific observation is different than spiritual knowledge. Science teaches what can be observed by all - spiritual knowledge teaches what we individually need to learn to progress in our lives. Two different topics, two different ways to learn. So just listen and learn and don't worry about what is "the spirit" and what "is not". God is teaching you and that requires "all voices" because one of the things you need to learn is precisely THAT QUESTION for yourself. It is different for everyone. If it brings you closer to Christ, it is the spirit. If it doesn't is isn't. It's really that simple. 4
CV75 Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 15 hours ago, Eek! said: One of the things I like most about Mormonism is the teaching that you have direct access to God the Holy Spirit as a source of guidance and insight. Maybe those aren't the exact words you'd use, but I think you get the idea. Ahab posted this in a recent thread, and I think it's brilliant: “The only thing I need to know any of our Lord's doctrine is the testimony of the Spirit bearing record to me. And yet some people act as if I should be primarily concerned with whether or not some teaching is "official Church doctrine".” So I have a few questions, if you guys don't mind, for anyone regardless of whether or not you have an LDS background: 1. How do you reliably distinguish the voice of the Holy Spirit from all your other internal voices? 2. What priority do you place on what the Holy Spirit tells you? Does it have as much importance in your belief system as it apparently does in Ahab's? Why or why not? 3. Have you ever learned some truth that you had not known before more or less directly from or through the Holy Spirit, and if so, would you be willing to share that experience with us? You can rephrase this question however you want if my wording doesn't fit right. My only request is, that this thread be a safe space for people to share personal beliefs and experiences, if they so choose, without being criticized for them. Thanks! I am given imperssions by several divine sources of guidance and insight, italicized as follows: The most fundamental is the Light of Christ, my conscience, which inclines me to choose that which is good. This leads me to recognize the goodness of Christ and Mormonism. The ministrations of the priesthood keys by the Lord’s servants lead me to the scriptures and message of the Restored Gospel. When I had sufficient faith to want to know whether these things are true, a witness from the Holy Ghost, or by the power of the Holy Ghost, I learned they are true. Making covenants and getting the Gift of the Holy Ghost enhanced the operation of all these sources in me, and doing the will of the Father helped me know the doctrine is of God (John 7:17). Getting the priesthood and ministering to others brought knowledge, which distills upon me as the dews from heaven. All these things work together, continually. The Holy Spirit coordinates my various internal voices and helps me keep them in perspective. He also improves the quality of my internal voices so that they come more in line with God's will. As my constant (“constant” in the sense of “loyal” or “faithful” as well as ever-present -- if only I would let Him!) companion, His guidance, insight, protection, and purifying and sanctifying effects I am certainly willing to prioritize, thought eh flesh is weak. But I have never forgotten His direct witness of the Church, the Book of Mormon, and the Savior (these are examples of truths I had not known before I prayed and God answered by the power of the Holy Ghost). Typically, if I pursue any kind of knowledge by study and faith, I am eventually blessed by the guidance and influence Holy Ghost and these other sources. 2
TheSkepticChristian Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) 16 hours ago, The Nehor said: Practice. I can now discern that some things are clearly and definitely the Spirit, I can also feel the difference between the spirit of Christmas and the spirit of Halloween, but it doesn't mean the spirits of Christmas and Halloween are real. Honestly, I felt the spirit of Halloween when I was a child, but it was just an emotion that my brain created for Halloween. I am sure many kids feel it. Like "Eek!" said, there many internal voices. How do you know your Revelation is not the result of selection bias, confirmation bias, patternicity, the Improbability Principle, Hallucination, false memory, or simply an emotion (specifically for religion) created by your brain? I am not saying Revelation is unreal, I just want to know how you can be so sure. Edited June 14, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
CV75 Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) 51 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: I can also feel the difference between the spirit of Christmas and the spirit of Halloween, but it doesn't mean the spirits of Christmas and Halloween are real. Honestly, I felt the spirit of Halloween when I was a child, but it was just an emotion that my brain created for Halloween. I am sure many kids feel it. Like "Eek!" said, there many internal voices. How do you know your Revelation is not the result of selection bias, confirmation bias, patternicity, the Improbability Principle, Hallucination, false memory, or simply an emotion (specifically for religion) created by your brain? I am not saying Revelation is unreal, I just want to know how you can be so sure. Not selection bias because I did not selectively rig the data. Not confirmation bias because I had no pre-existing conclusion for the data I prayed about. Not patternicity because there was no random data. Not the improbability principle because it is indeed a rare event—only happened three times. Not hallucination because it was an actual (albeit subjective), and not an apparent, perception, and I was certainly present. Not a false memory because at the time I had no memory of something that hadn’t yet happened, and because I wrote it down immediately (some 45+ years ago) for future reference in keeping the story straight. Not simply an emotion because other states of mind and body were integrated and involved, as well as my intellect and spirit. Given all that, I can be so sure because I successfully applied and stayed true to what I received, and continued to receive more to this day. Edited June 14, 2016 by CV75 3
The Nehor Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 2 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: I can also feel the difference between the spirit of Christmas and the spirit of Halloween, but it doesn't mean the spirits of Christmas and Halloween are real. Honestly, I felt the spirit of Halloween when I was a child, but it was just an emotion that my brain created for Halloween. I am sure many kids feel it. Like "Eek!" said, there many internal voices. How do you know your Revelation is not the result of selection bias, confirmation bias, patternicity, the Improbability Principle, Hallucination, false memory, or simply an emotion (specifically for religion) created by your brain? I am not saying Revelation is unreal, I just want to know how you can be so sure. Because it has occasionally told me about the future and is always right when it does. 3
Ahab Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 3 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: I am not saying Revelation is unreal, I just want to know how you can be so sure. Sure about what? Or sure in what way? Revelation is simply about something that is being revealed, whatever it is that is being revealed. An idea or a feeling, for example. Or a perception. Something you didn't see or notice before and then did see or notice when it was revealed to you. That's why my sorting process focuses on discerning whether something is good or evil when I see or perceive something that has been revealed to me. I see or perceive it, whether or not anyone else around me sees or perceives the same thing I do, but is that good or is it evil? Truth itself can be either good or evil. Truth is just something as it is or was or will be. So what I focus on is discerning whether something is good or evil. Truth included. 2
TheSkepticChristian Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, The Nehor said: Because it has occasionally told me about the future and is always right when it does. For example? Details please. 9 hours ago, CV75 said: Not the improbability principle because it is indeed a rare event—only happened three times. Please read about the improbability principle Edited June 15, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
The Nehor Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: For example? Details please. Nope, not for sharing. Get your own. 10 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: It is clear you do not know what patternicity is. Being sure something is going to happen is not patternicity. Now I am not sure you know what it means. It means to form patterns out of meaningless data. If I predicted the recession of 2008 or 9/11 that would not be patternicity. Patternicity is believing 9/11 was an inside job and constructing crazy scenarios and seeing all events as pointing to it happening. Patternicity is believed to be an evolved response. We are startled by something behind us even though 99.9999% of the time there is no threat because it is very advantageous to be startled in circumstances where there is a threat. 10 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Please read about the improbability principle That would mean something if these events only occurred some of the time. Unless of course you are arguing that coincidentally those revelations are always right. The Improbability Principle is that improbable things happen. I suppose you could argue that I am a one in a million or billion or whatever who happens to always be right when I think the Holy Ghost is talking to me but that strains credulity and I have other evidences that it is the Holy Ghost in any case. Please stop throwing random scientific and psychological principles at me. I love reading up on these and it is painful watching you ignorantly trying to wield them as weapons. Edited June 15, 2016 by The Nehor 2
TheSkepticChristian Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: Nope, not for sharing. Get your own. We can't analyze your experience if you don't give us the details. So why even bother telling me in the first place? 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: If I predicted the recession of 2008 or 9/11 that would not be patternicity. Actually, many people believe Nostradamus predicted 9/11, that is just the result of patternicity. We need details about your experiences. 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: Now I am not sure you know what it means. Of course I do! I misread what CV75 said. However, the people that fall for patternicity deny it is "random data" 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: The Improbability Principle is that improbable things happen. I suppose you could argue that I am a one in a million or billion or whatever who happens to always be right when I think the Holy Ghost is talking to me but that strains credulity and I have other evidences that it is the Holy Ghost in any case. but without details we can't analyze your experience. Please present the other evidences. 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: Please stop throwing random scientific and psychological principles at me. I love reading up on these and it is painful watching you ignorantly trying to wield them as weapons. I simply want to know how you can be so sure. Please don't call me ignorant. Edited June 15, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
Robert F. Smith Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Orson Pratt, “Joseph . . . received the ideas from God, but clothed those ideas with such words as came to his mind” (Minutes of the School of Prophets, Salt Lake Stake, Dec 9, 1872, Church Historical Department Archives.). John A. Widtsoe, Improvement Era, 40 (Oct 1937):600-601, “Seldom are divine revelations dictated to man. . . . Instead, ideas are impressed upon the mind of the recipient, who then delivers the ideas in his own language.” Richard G. Scott, "How to Obtain Revelation and Inspiration for Your Personal Life," 182nd LDS General Conference, April 2012, online at https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2012/04/how-to-obtain-revelation-and-inspiration-for-your-personal-life?lang=eng&query=scott,+(name%3a"Richard+G.+Scott") ; Ensign, 42/5 (May 2012):45-47. Richard G., “To Acquire Spiritual Guidance,” LDS General Conference, Oct 2009, online at https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2009/10/to-acquire-spiritual-guidance?lang=eng ; Ensign, 39/11 (Nov 2009): 2
Eek! Posted June 15, 2016 Author Posted June 15, 2016 I very much appreciate the insights and lessons learned and research and experiences you all have shared here. I apologize for starting a thread and then not participating in it for over 24 hours - I'm self-employed and when something goes wrong the only way for me to meet deadlines is to put all possible time and energy into solving the problems. 2
The Nehor Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: We can't analyze your experience if you don't give us the details. So why even bother telling me in the first place? What made you think I want your analysis of it? If I wanted it analyzed I certainly would not come here or come to you. I told it here so I can say it happens. The details are irrelevant unless of course you want to try to discredit the whole thing and that impulse why I did not share the details. 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Actually, many people believe Nostradamus predicted 9/11, that is just the result of patternicity. We need details about your experiences. Those people are called superstitious idiots. Thanks for comparing vague nonsensical predictions of the far future to my experiences but they are nothing like that. Enjoy the detail. It is probably the last one. 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Of course I do! I misread what CV75 said. However, the people that fall for patternicity deny it is "random data" So you are saying I am horribly mistaken and deluded? With those facts at your disposal don't you think you are wasting your time trying to reason with me? 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: but without details we can't analyze your experience. Please present the other evidences. There are no evidences. These experiences are not transferable. I suppose I could give you a journal entry but you could claim I dated it incorrectly and I am not going to do that anyway. I don't want you to analyze my experience. I am not convinced you are equipped to do so even if I was willing which I am not. 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: I simply want to know how you can be so sure. Please don't call me ignorant. I am sure because I am sure. The evidence and experiences are convincing. I can't give you that. Sorry. Tip on how not to come across as ignorant: Never use things in an argument you barely understand. It will come back to bite you especially in the age of the internet where you are communicating on the internet. I knew the concepts you threw at me before you brought them up but even if you didn't a simple Google search would shoot you down. 1
TheSkepticChristian Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, The Nehor said: What made you think I want your analysis of it? If I wanted it analyzed I certainly would not come here or come to you. So why did you tell me about it? Don't ever again tell me about something without details. 2 hours ago, The Nehor said: The details are irrelevant unless of course you want to try to discredit the whole thing and that impulse why I did not share the details. analyze ≠ discredit, they are not synonymous! 2 hours ago, The Nehor said: Those people are called superstitious idiots. Why do you treat them like that? Ex-Mormons say the same thing about you guys. Quote Thanks for comparing vague nonsensical predictions of the far future A Nostradamus believer wrote, "The tragic events of 9-11 were truly foreshadowed here. Presently, we use the Gregorian calendar. But during Nostradamus' lifetime they used the Julian Calendar. The seventh month on the Julian Calendar is September. The date 1999 provides a time clue of an event around the millennial change. However, the real clue is that the date 1999 is nothing more than a numeric anagram. If we reverse the order of the "1"s and "9"s, we arrive at the date 9-11-1 (the date of the 9-11 attacks)." Read More http://www.nostradamususa.com/911prophecy.html Quote future to my experiences but they are nothing like that I don't know. I simply pointed out that conclusions about predictions can be the result of paternicity too! Quote So you are saying I am horribly mistaken and deluded? No, I hope not. 2 hours ago, The Nehor said: There are no evidences. These experiences are not transferable. You just told me " I have other evidences that it is the Holy Ghost in any case." 2 hours ago, The Nehor said: Tip on how not to come across as ignorant: Never use things in an argument you barely understand. I totally know what I am talking about. 2 hours ago, The Nehor said: I knew the concepts you threw at me before you brought them up but even if you didn't a simple Google search would shoot you down. What? How? I seriously doubt you studied those concepts. I doubt you read the Improbability Principle! Edited June 15, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
Eek! Posted June 15, 2016 Author Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) Not that I expect any special status as the person who started this thread, but just in case this was inadvertently overlooked: On 6/13/2016 at 4:20 PM, Eek! said: My only request is, that this thread be a safe space for people to share personal beliefs and experiences, if they so choose, without being criticized for them. SkepticChristian, I respectfully request that you allow Nehor, or anyone else, to freely express his or her beliefs and experiences in this thread without criticizing them. In this thread, I am asking people to open up, to whatever extent they feel comfortable, about something that may well be very personal and sacred to them. I don't want to have lured them into exposing themselves to criticism on this topic. Thank you. Edited June 15, 2016 by Eek! 2
CV75 Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 11 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Please read about the improbability principle LOL I did. How rare is a spiritual witness confirming the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon to you? Or how commonplace is it? It is rare to me (happened only once) and also commonplace (happened millions of times, I imagine, extrapolating from all the common testimonies about it the last 40+ years).
TheSkepticChristian Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) 22 hours ago, CV75 said: Not selection bias because I did not selectively rig the data. Tell us about one of your spiritual revelations so we can confirm that. Give us details please. 22 hours ago, CV75 said: Not confirmation bias because I had no pre-existing conclusion for the data I prayed about. but you had faith and hope. So please tell us what you are talking about? 22 hours ago, CV75 said: Not patternicity because there was no random data. Everyone that falls for patternicity denies the random data. I am not saying that is your case, we need details so we can analyze your experience. 22 hours ago, CV75 said: Not the improbability principle because it is indeed a rare event—only happened three times. Rare events happen all the time. A man was struck by lighting seven times in his life, did God do that? Some people win the lottery twice, divine inspiration? 22 hours ago, CV75 said: Not simply an emotion because other states of mind and body were integrated and involved, as well as my intellect and spirit You are begging the question. 1 hour ago, CV75 said: LOL I did. How rare is a spiritual witness confirming the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon to you? I don't know, we need details about your confirming spiritual witness. How do you define that? Edited June 15, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
TheSkepticChristian Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, Eek! said: SkepticChristian, I respectfully request that you allow Nehor, or anyone else, to freely express his or her beliefs He has the right to express his religious beliefs, but it is impossible to have a conversation with him because he doesn't want to explain. . He says he receives Revelations that tell him the future, but refuses to give details. In my opinion that is boasting . He tells me "Nope, not for sharing. Get your own" That is Pride. Edited June 15, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
CV75 Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 35 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Tell us please tell us we need details did God do that? I am sorrry we need details You must learn to speak the language of your respondents first! ...and stop saying "we" so much LOL
TheSkepticChristian Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 9 minutes ago, CV75 said: You must learn to speak the language of your respondents first! ...and stop saying "we" so much LOL That is what I thought! You have NOTHING! Just personal attacks! You think it is Funny LOL What would Jesus do?
CV75 Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 39 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: That is what I thought! You have NOTHING! Just personal attacks! You think it is Funny LOL What would Jesus do? Call Himself SkepticChristian?
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