Rock Star & Former Member Tyler Glenn of Neon Trees

[readstoomuch]

42 minutes ago, canard78 said:

I know you didn't ask me, but I want the church to change. I don't want it to eat itself into oblivion.

It is a large organisation that can mobilise millions. It had the potential to do huge good in many countries around the world. I know is an important part of the lives of friends and family.  

If it continues to tether itself to the stake of gender and sexuality discrimination then I can only see it declining. 

This quote shows great love and care for what the Church is going through.  It isn't just ssa or ow issues, though.  Political correctness is smothering the world.  The rules missionaries have are often because of accusations or legal action taken against the Church.  They can't hold children for example.  I already see changes regarding women and the priesthood.  SSA that is acted upon us not going to be acceptable.  The Church is drawing a line in the sand over this issue.  An issue shoved down the throats of states by an activist, too powerful Supreme Court.  Who knows what else they will enact that changes our societal moral codes.  We must learn to show great love to whatever societal issue is forced upon us, while also not caving because of pressure to change.   Blacks and priesthood needed to change, but it is not the same as ssa or ssm.  Not an easy time to be lds.

[Russell C McGregor]

12 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It's a sign of immaturity when a person can't self-evaluate enough to see how they may have hurt another person, intended or not.

Hopefully the church is mature enough to reflect both what they did, and how they did it to see if they may have room to improve. Unless they are perfect, which I think we would agree they are not, then there is room for improvement if they care to look.

Of course the Church and it's leaders aren't perfect.

And neither are its critics.

Including, but not limited to, those who are hyperventilating with outrage about its current policy.

If we were to imagine a continuum, with pure satanic evil at one end and divine righteousness and holiness at the other, we are all of us clustered somewhere near the middle.

But if we were to zoom in on where all of us are, we would realise that the Church and its leaders are a lot closer to the divine end than their accusers are.

So far away, in fact, that they are out of sight over the horizon.

[canard78]

36 minutes ago, readstoomuch said:

This quote shows great love and care for what the Church is going through.  It isn't just ssa or ow issues, though.  Political correctness is smothering the world.  The rules missionaries have are often because of accusations or legal action taken against the Church.  They can't hold children for example.  I already see changes regarding women and the priesthood.  SSA that is acted upon us not going to be acceptable.  The Church is drawing a line in the sand over this issue.  An issue shoved down the throats of states by an activist, too powerful Supreme Court.  Who knows what else they will enact that changes our societal moral codes.  We must learn to show great love to whatever societal issue is forced upon us, while also not caving because of pressure to change.   Blacks and priesthood needed to change, but it is not the same as ssa or ssm.  Not an easy time to be lds.

I'm not American, so no Supreme Court has done any shoving of anything down my throat... thankfully.

I agree with you though, it's not an easy time for someone to be LDS. 

The church leadership's obsession with protecting gender roles and "traditional" marriage means there is greater potential to take their eye off the ball of what Jesus taught is our greatest priority to humankind (Matthew 25). 

I think Jesus would be quite disappointed with Mormonism's apparent priorities today: boundary maintenance and opposing equality. 

[Russell C McGregor]

13 minutes ago, canard78 said:

I'm not American, so no Supreme Court has done any shoving of anything down my throat... thankfully.

I agree with you though, it's not an easy time for someone to be LDS. 

The church leadership's obsession with protecting gender roles and "traditional" marriage means there is greater potential to take their eye off the ball of what Jesus taught is our greatest priority to humankind (Matthew 25). 

I think Jesus would be quite disappointed with Mormonism's apparent priorities today: boundary maintenance and opposing equality. 

Because Jesus was only concerned with "social justice" and "inclusion" and other PC slogans, right?

Your Jesus would never say anything that might make anyone feel "excluded," would he?

Like, for example, "Strait is the gate..."

[canard78]

20 minutes ago, Russell C McGregor said:

Because Jesus was only concerned with "social justice" and "inclusion" and other PC slogans, right?

Your Jesus would never say anything that might make anyone feel "excluded," would he?

Like, for example, "Strait is the gate..."

He's not my Jesus, though I do enjoy a selection of the words that others attributed to him.

I also like to think he might pat me on the head and tell me to go and pick marigolds. 

If I'm going to construct a god in my own image, as we all do, I'll go with one who isn't homophobic.

[Russell C McGregor]

8 minutes ago, canard78 said:

He's not my Jesus, though I do enjoy a selection of the words that others attributed to him.

Well, those who actually follow Him, strive to live by His words; they don't just "enjoy a selection."

8 minutes ago, canard78 said:

I also like to think he might pat me on the head and tell me to go and pick marigolds. 

If I'm going to construct a god in my own image, as we all do, I'll go with one who isn't homophobic.

I'm confident that Jesus isn't afraid of anything or anyone.

There are those who talk about these issues intelligently, and then there are those who rely upon meaningless slogan words like "homophobic."

Why are immoralists always so hagiophobic?

 

Edited April 30, 2016 by Russell C McGregor

[cdowis]

4 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

What is obvious to everyone but the church is that we are in the middle of a societal shift.

Obviously you aren't listening to the conference talks, and not keeping up with the changes in the church.

These shifts take place when the majority of society recognise injustices within society and change. It going on right before our very eyes yet dogmatic institutions always seem to be the last ones to accept the message,,,but they eventually do or they are relegated to the far fringes of society and are simply irrelevant 

The church recognizes that the latest fads in moral outrage are often just the old immorality with a newly gained cloak of respectability. 

The church will eventually change just as it has in the past or it will become more and more irrelevant but unfortunately that acceptance and change will come too late for Tyler Glenn and other gay Mormons of our generation 

The Lord has promised that the Restored Church will not go into apostasy during this last dispensation, but Satan will deceive many, including the very elect.  The G&A church will gain in prominence, but that little stone will still roll forth to fill the earth.

Right now the church is in the same exact place it found itself in the 1880's and 1970's

HALLELUJAH!!!  PRAISE BE TO GOD.

 eventually with enough societal pressure change will happen with respect to both woman's and gay rights  revelations will be claimed change will occur and members will accept and adapt but in the mean time this tention between church dogmatism and societal change will only intensify until the church either changes or is relegated to obscurity 

Sigh.  

The church has made it recognition of the legitimate rights of the LBGT community very clear.  However, that recognition has not been reciprocated.  
Regarding women's rights, were you aware that Utah was one of the first states/territories to recognize women's suffrage, second only to Wyoming?  Were you aware that the church organized the first worldwide women's organization?  
The hate mongers have poisoned your mind, my friend.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2016 by cdowis

[rodheadlee]

21 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Tyler Glenn has released a new solo song "Trash" in which he laments the hurt and pain of being rejected by the church he once loved and served.  For those unfamiliar with Glenn he came out Gay 2 years ago.  I believe that the new anti gay policy was the straw the broke his proverbial shelf.  When he came out in  Rolling Stone Magazine he was still very pro Mormon and talked about his desire to be an ambassador for the gay Mormon community.  When the church announced last year that gay couples legally married would be considered apostate,  Glenn's belief dissolved.  anyway thought this might interest some here.  I've been a Neon Tree's fan since their days in Provo...I just find it interesting how things have evolved since then...the church lost a good man in Tyler Glenn...I'm saddened to see it end like this

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/watch-neon-trees-tyler-glenn-slam-mormon-church-in-new-solo-video-20160429

From a music/video critic standpoint I think it's pretty juvenile. I'm not familiar with the artist does he play any of the instruments? His voice isn't enough to carry the song. I prefer a more  sopisticated dark lyrics and a melody with a hook to it such as  Sympaty for the Devil. by the Rolling Stones or Darkness Darkness by the Youngbloods. Perhaps it's just generational.

 

Edited April 30, 2016 by rodheadlee

[ERMD]

20 hours ago, JulieM said:

Read the article of where he was and where he is now.  You can't be so unfeeling as to not at least have empathy and compassion for him and his situation.

And, where did I say the church has flip flopped?  I didn't and I don't believe that  it has.  But that doesn't mean he can't feel betrayed and angry and that we shouldn't try to understand how he feels.

Anger is one thing.  Betrayal is another.  The Church has not betrayed him.  If you see that it has, please elaborate as to how.

Have I said or implied that I do not have empathy or compassion for him?  

[Johnnie Cake]

6 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Which of these hypothetical outcomes do you most desire, and why?

While I hope for a more inclusive church I sense woman's and gay equality is the hill they will choose to die on

[ERMD]

3 hours ago, canard78 said:

 

I agree with you though, it's not an easy time for someone to be LDS. 

 

It's a great time to be LDS, and the subject of this thread has nothing to do with that.

[canard78]

5 minutes ago, ERMD said:

It's a great time to be LDS, and the subject of this thread has nothing to do with that.

I'm glad you're enjoying it

[carbon dioxide]

6 hours ago, canard78 said:

I know you didn't ask me, but I want the church to change. I don't want it to eat itself into oblivion.

It is a large organisation that can mobilise millions. It had the potential to do huge good in many countries around the world. I know is an important part of the lives of friends and family.  

If it continues to tether itself to the stake of gender and sexuality discrimination then I can only see it declining. 

Decline in some parts of the world and grow in others.  Most people on the earth still do not like the LBGT agenda.  I do see the Church declining somewhat.  In fact the scriptures say that the world will for the most part reject the gospel which includes the churches position on SSM and other important issues.  The Lord however has some nice presents for them however.

D&C 29:17-20

 17 And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take vengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.

 18 Wherefore, I the Lord God will send forth flies upon the face of the earth, which shall take hold of the inhabitants thereof, and shall eat their flesh, and shall cause maggots to come in upon them;

 19 And their tongues shall be stayed that they shall not utter against me; and their flesh shall fall from off their bones, and their eyes from their sockets;

 20 And it shall come to pass that the beasts of the forest and the fowls of the air shall devour them up.

At the end of the day, those who fight against the Lord, those who support wickedness will lose.  God always wins in the end.  To be on the right side of history is to be on the right side of the Lord.  The day will come in the the 1000 year millennium when people will say "What happened to the people who supported SSM and transsexual issues" and the answer will be instant.  They are all gone.  They have been swept off the earth and the people will know who was on the right side of history as they remain.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

I beg you, carbon dioxide, stop and think about what you are actually saying. When compassionate people read the words of someone using scripture to proclaim that a wrathful supernatural dictator is going to take vengeance upon gays by causing them to be eaten alive by wild animals and left to rot until they are infested with maggots and their flesh is dripping off their bones and their eyes are falling out of their sockets, their only sane response is to reject both the horrific scripture and those who propound it. This is utterly obscene and sociopathic. Please, I beg you, get help from a professional therapist, because exulting in the deaths of those who are on the 'wrong side of history' is about as far from healthy as you can get.  

Edited April 30, 2016 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[canard78]

6 minutes ago, JeremyOrbe-Smith said:

I beg you, carbon dioxide, stop and think about what you are actually saying. When compassionate people read the words of someone using scripture to proclaim that a wrathful supernatural dictator is going to take vengeance upon gays by causing them to be eaten alive by wild animals and left to rot until they are infested with maggots and their flesh flesh is dripping off their bones and their eyes are falling out of their sockets, their only sane response is to reject both the scripture and those who propound it. This is utterly obscene and sociopathic. Please, I beg you, get help from a professional therapist, because exulting in the deaths of those who are on the 'wrong side of history' is about as far from healthy as you can get.  

Exactly.

If the options available to me were restricted to believing in the god that carbon dioxide is describing or to believe in no god at all, I'd embrace atheism immediately.

Thankfully, those aren't my only options.

[JLHPROF]

1 minute ago, canard78 said:

Exactly.

If the options available to me were restricted to believing in the god that carbon dioxide is describing or to believe in no god at all, I'd embrace atheism immediately.

Thankfully, those aren't my only options.

The options have nothing to do with belief.
Reality is not dependent upon belief.

[carbon dioxide]

6 hours ago, readstoomuch said:

This quote shows great love and care for what the Church is going through.  It isn't just ssa or ow issues, though.  Political correctness is smothering the world.  The rules missionaries have are often because of accusations or legal action taken against the Church.  They can't hold children for example.  I already see changes regarding women and the priesthood.  SSA that is acted upon us not going to be acceptable.  The Church is drawing a line in the sand over this issue.  An issue shoved down the throats of states by an activist, too powerful Supreme Court.  Who knows what else they will enact that changes our societal moral codes.  We must learn to show great love to whatever societal issue is forced upon us, while also not caving because of pressure to change.   Blacks and priesthood needed to change, but it is not the same as ssa or ssm.  Not an easy time to be lds.

The Church does have to draw lines in the sand.  Life is a test to see if we will follow God or the world.  Some issues will require faith for the members.  Some will be tough but that is what a real test is.  If the Church simply drew lines in obvious places like do not kill your children, that is not a real test.  Real tests press our faith.  It will get worse as time goes on but we also know the Lord will sustain the Church and punish the wicked.  So it will tough for a while for us but then the Lord will flip the tables and it will be really bad for the wicked.  

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Quote

The options have nothing to do with belief.
Reality is not dependent upon belief.

So you honestly, seriously agree with carbon dioxide that 'reality' is a wrathful God (who has the power to change all people from mortality to immortality in a twinkling of the eye without them even tasting death) will someday round up all the gays and transsexuals and those who support them, set wild animals on them and let them be eaten alive, and sit back and watch as their remains are infested with maggots and their eyes are falling out of their sockets? 

Gee. I can't imagine why Tyler Glenn might have felt slightly uncomfortable at Church. 

Edited April 30, 2016 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Quote

The Church does have to draw lines in the sand.  Life is a test to see if we will follow God or the world.  Some issues will require faith for the members.  Some will be tough but that is what a real test is.  If the Church simply drew lines in obvious places like do not kill your children, that is not a real test.  Real tests press our faith.  It will get worse as time goes on but we also know the Lord will sustain the Church and punish the wicked.  So it will tough for a while for us but then the Lord will flip the tables and it will be really bad for the wicked. 

God is supposed to be a loving father to all who are born into this world, including gays and transsexuals. 

Loving fathers do not let their precious children be ripped apart and devoured alive by wild animals.  

[JLHPROF]

6 minutes ago, JeremyOrbe-Smith said:

So you honestly, seriously agree with carbon dioxide that 'reality' is a wrathful God (who has the power to change all people from mortality to immortality in a twinkling of the eye without them even tasting death) will someday round up all the gays and transsexuals and those who support them, set wild animals on them and let them be eaten alive, and sit back and watch as their remains are infested with maggots and their eyes are falling out of their sockets? 

Gee. I can't imagine why Tyler Glenn might have felt slightly uncomfortable at Church. 

No, I honestly believe that God will judge people on their actions and they will bring consequences of law upon themselves.

And all the excuses, opinions, and hurt feelings in the world won't change this.

Edited April 30, 2016 by JLHPROF

[cdowis]

38 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

 The day will come in the the 1000 year millennium when people will say "What happened to the people who supported SSM and transsexual issues" and the answer will be instant.  They are all gone.  They have been swept off the earth and the people will know who was on the right side of history as they remain.

I think the Lord will distinguish among those who were deceived into "supporting" certain life styles and those who actually lived and unabashedly exulted/ reveled in that life style.

[canard78]

48 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Decline in some parts of the world and grow in others.  Most people on the earth still do not like the LBGT agenda.  I do see the Church declining somewhat.  In fact the scriptures say that the world will for the most part reject the gospel which includes the churches position on SSM and other important issues.  The Lord however has some nice presents for them however.

D&C 29:17-20

 17 And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take vengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.

 18 Wherefore, I the Lord God will send forth flies upon the face of the earth, which shall take hold of the inhabitants thereof, and shall eat their flesh, and shall cause maggots to come in upon them;

 19 And their tongues shall be stayed that they shall not utter against me; and their flesh shall fall from off their bones, and their eyes from their sockets;

 20 And it shall come to pass that the beasts of the forest and the fowls of the air shall devour them up.

At the end of the day, those who fight against the Lord, those who support wickedness will lose.  God always wins in the end.  To be on the right side of history is to be on the right side of the Lord.  The day will come in the the 1000 year millennium when people will say "What happened to the people who supported SSM and transsexual issues" and the answer will be instant.  They are all gone.  They have been swept off the earth and the people will know who was on the right side of history as they remain.

Education and time will ensure that acceptance of homosexuality moves only in one direction.

Out of interest, have you done much research on that "most people" statement?

If you were to weight the following data by world population, then you would be correct, "most people" do not think that homosexuality should be acceptable:

 

However, as you look down that list, it means that the church needs to align itself with political and societal views like China, Russia, Pakistan, Indonesia and central Africa. Most of these countries either already have a strong religion in place or no religion at all.

What's more, the momentum is moving away from you. The title says "mostly unchanged" but in reality, 41% of countries had a statistically significant increase in the number of people in favour of homosexuality (to 95% confidence). Only 8% had a decrease. 

And finally, it's only likely to grow. Look at the acceptance among younger people in countries like China, Japan, South Korea, Latin America and even Russia: 

All of the above figures are already three years old. I would anticipate an increase in most markets if they repeated the research given the support among younger populations.

Twenty to thirty years from now, you're going to find yourself in a dwindling minority. Unless it changes course, homosexuality will be the iceberg that sinks the "good ship zion." As I've said in other threads, I hope that future leaders have the humility to accept they were in the wrong and point the church towards much greater causes than this fight.

Edited April 30, 2016 by canard78

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Quote

No, I honestly believe that God will judge people on their actions and they will bring consequences of law upon themselves.

And all the excuses, opinions, and hurt feelings in the world won't change this.

So the 'consequences of law' include gays and transsexuals being eaten alive by wild animals as a supposedly loving and all-powerful Father-God who could change them from mortality to immortality without even tasting death stands by watching. 

And to protest that this is the kind of utterly deranged thinking that only psychopaths could take seriously is merely 'hurt feelings'. 

Tyler Glenn made the right choice to get out of this horrifying insanity. 

Edited April 30, 2016 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[canard78]

25 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

The options have nothing to do with belief.
Reality is not dependent upon belief.

I've heard it said that "perception is reality."

You perceive a god and universe based on your experiences. That does not make it reality for anyone other than yourself.

Edited April 30, 2016 by canard78

[USU78]

22 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

I don't believe the Church will ever do that. However I do think that labeling SSM partners as Apostates is unkind.

'splain yourself, tss.  How is accuracy unkindness?

'splain yourself, tss.  How is unrepentant commitment to sin not apostasy?