TheSkepticChristian Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) How is religion better than Secular Transhumanism? Both promise an afterlife. Both promise a better future. Both promise heaven on Earth. What if it is possible (no evidence for that) to revive the dead? and if we ever get that super technology, wouldn't it be advance enough to solve all of our problems? So how is religion better? "Mammal brain frozen and thawed out perfectly for first time" https://www.newscientist.com/article/2077140-mammal-brain-frozen-and-thawed-out-perfectly-for-first-time/ Edited March 2, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
ksfisher Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 How does being able to revive the dead solve all our problems?
Popular Post Bobbieaware Posted March 2, 2016 Popular Post Posted March 2, 2016 11 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: How is religion better than Secular Transhumanism? Both promise an afterlife. Both promise a better future. Both promise heaven on Earth. What if it is possible (no evidence for that) to revive the dead? and if we ever get that super technology, wouldn't it be advance enough to solve all of our problems? So how is religion better? "Mammal brain frozen and thawed out perfectly for first time" https://www.newscientist.com/article/2077140-mammal-brain-frozen-and-thawed-out-perfectly-for-first-time/ The remission of sins and the outpouring of the Holy Ghost (to transform the fallen spiritual nature of man to an empowered holy nature) by means of the infinite and eternal atonement of Christ. What the secular Transhumanists are offering is what the Book of Mormon calls being "saved" in one"s sins -- which is an impossibility. 5
TheSkepticChristian Posted March 2, 2016 Author Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ksfisher said: How does being able to revive the dead solve all our problems? A technology that can revive the dead will also be a technology that creates the Replicator Edited March 2, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
thesometimesaint Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 For the sake of the argument. Let's posit that superior technology. That we eventually "Bring Back" you after being frozen for 400 years. Family and friends... long dead. Your knowledge of the world Culture relatively comparable to that of Columbus. Science and technology advanced far beyond anything you ever imagined. You may adapt, but even if you do it is going to be steep climb to adjust.
TheSkepticChristian Posted March 2, 2016 Author Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: You may adapt, but even if you do it is going to be steep climb to adjust. but don't you think they will have good psychologists and the Replicator? " Family and friends... long dead. " if scientific resuscitation is ever possible, they will continue to live in my heart. Edited March 2, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
mfbukowski Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 28 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: How is religion better than Secular Transhumanism? Both promise an afterlife. Both promise a better future. Both promise heaven on Earth. What if it is possible (no evidence for that) to revive the dead? and if we ever get that super technology, wouldn't it be advance enough to solve all of our problems? So how is religion better? "Mammal brain frozen and thawed out perfectly for first time" https://www.newscientist.com/article/2077140-mammal-brain-frozen-and-thawed-out-perfectly-for-first-time/ You will not understand, but I will post for those who do. Religion is about the spirit. Religion is about changing your life and having happiness and peace on earth. Transhumanism is about gizmos. Big difference. Same old crappy humans with new gizmos. No thanks. We already have enough gizmos that have not changed us. 4
mfbukowski Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 16 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said: The remission of sins and the outpouring of the Holy Ghost (to transform the fallen spiritual nature of man to an empowered holy nature) by means of the infinite and eternal atonement of Christ. What the secular Transhumanists are offering is what the Book of Mormon calls being "saved" in one"s sins -- which is an impossibility. Yeah. Same old crappy humans with more gizmos. That's the way I say it. 3
TheSkepticChristian Posted March 2, 2016 Author Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Religion is about the spirit. Religion is about changing your life and having happiness and peace on earth. Are you saying a person cannot be moral and happy without religion? 7 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Transhumanism is about gizmos. I don't know what gizmos are, but the ultimate goals of transhumanism and religion are heaven on earth and afterlife. Edited March 2, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
thesometimesaint Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 6 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: but don't you think they will have good psychologists and the Replicator? " Family and friends... long dead. " if scientific resuscitation is ever possible, they will continue to live in my heart. I agree with mfbukowski "Same old crappy humans with more gizmos". 1
mfbukowski Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Are you saying a person cannot be moral and happy without religion? I don't know what gizmos are, but the ultimate goals of transhumanism and religion are heaven on earth and afterlife. Yes, I know you do not understand spirituality yet. That's what I said in the first post. It is about direct communication with the Divine. They don't sell radios with that wavelength Edited March 2, 2016 by mfbukowski
JLHPROF Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 10 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Are you saying a person cannot be moral and happy without religion? Happy yes, truly moral no. Because the source of morals is either God or societal norms. Only one is truly moral.
JLHPROF Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 50 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: How is religion better than Secular Transhumanism? One is eternity and based in truth. The other is mortal and based in assumptions. 1
bluebell Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 38 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: For the sake of the argument. Let's posit that superior technology. That we eventually "Bring Back" you after being frozen for 400 years. Family and friends... long dead. Your knowledge of the world Culture relatively comparable to that of Columbus. Science and technology advanced far beyond anything you ever imagined. You may adapt, but even if you do it is going to be steep climb to adjust. Exactly. And how would such a person support themselves?
TheSkepticChristian Posted March 2, 2016 Author Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, bluebell said: Exactly. And how would such a person support themselves? with the help of smart people. If we ever make a Transhumanist Utopia, we won't have to worry about inequality Edited March 2, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
mfbukowski Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) 21 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: One is eternity and based in truth. The other is mortal and based in assumptions. It's about living WITHOUT need for a body. Maybe that will do the trick. Yes, that is the bottom line Transhumanism does not believe that is possible. It ignores the spiritual dimension And faith Edited March 2, 2016 by mfbukowski
longview Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 49 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: if we ever get that super technology, wouldn't it be advance enough to solve all of our problems? Are you serious? ALL our problems? Get real ! ! ! Trans-humanism will always wallow in shortcomings (even as it tries in its stumbling ways to approach the Utopian Ideal). 49 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: So how is religion better? God has entered into "perfection" long ago. He abides the Eternal Law of Justice. He is very circumspect in His relationships with pre-spirit intelligences, spirit children, mortal beings and resurrected beings. In my mid-teens the book and the movie: "2001 A Space Odyssey" came out in 1968. I was super enthralled and blown away by the concepts presented in the narrative (which presupposes evolution as the basis for all life). That life on some planets would reach the point of colonizing their solar systems and travelling to other stars. And to replace their body parts with ever improving bionic technology, they eventually transferred their consciousness over to reliable machines with far greater capacity and powers. They roamed the Universe to look for more life and to aid budding intelligences. Last night, I finished reading the last book titled: "3001 The Final Odyssey." Even Authur C. Clark would agree that those TMAs (the monoliths) were not in a state of perfection and sometimes make arbitrary decisions.
bluebell Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 51 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: with the help of smart people. If we ever make a Transhumanist Utopia, we won't have to worry about inequality We won't ever make one.
thesometimesaint Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: with the help of smart people. If we ever make a Transhumanist Utopia, we won't have to worry about inequality I know plenty of smart people. But few could adjust to a 400 year gap in knowledge. More like a Transhumanist Dystopia if mortal humans are involved. Look at it this way. I've done my genealogy back to the early 13th Century CE western Europe. But before the late 1800's they are just names in a dusty old book. There is nothing wrong with inequality per say. I'm taller than most. I'm interested in different things than most, I think you mean equality under the law.
The Nehor Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 The idea that if people just had the right tools, toys, and society that people would naturally become wonderful is a myth. A beautiful myth but still a myth. 2
mfbukowski Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, longview said: Are you serious? ALL our problems? Get real ! ! ! Trans-humanism will always wallow in shortcomings (even as it tries in its stumbling ways to approach the Utopian Ideal). God has entered into "perfection" long ago. He abides the Eternal Law of Justice. He is very circumspect in His relationships with pre-spirit intelligences, spirit children, mortal beings and resurrected beings. In my mid-teens the book and the movie: "2001 A Space Odyssey" came out in 1968. I was super enthralled and blown away by the concepts presented in the narrative (which presupposes evolution as the basis for all life). That life on some planets would reach the point of colonizing their solar systems and travelling to other stars. And to replace their body parts with ever improving bionic technology, they eventually transferred their consciousness over to reliable machines with far greater capacity and powers. They roamed the Universe to look for more life and to aid budding intelligences. Last night, I finished reading the last book titled: "3001 The Final Odyssey." Even Authur C. Clark would agree that those TMAs (the monoliths) were not in a state of perfection and sometimes make arbitrary decisions. Yeah, but they wouldn't if they came for Kolob. If I were a transhumanist I would be very into the "God is a space alien" thing. Maybe that is a way for Skeptic to go. It is literal and a "scientific" explanation- just not yet proven. Not spiritual, but Yep if I were Skeptic, that is probably what I would do. Edited March 2, 2016 by mfbukowski
The Nehor Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 3 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Are you saying a person cannot be moral and happy without religion? To the former yes, at least moral in an absolute sense. You can get degrees of it elsewhere though usually it is secular borrowing from religion. As to happy you can be as happy as your conduct allows you to be. To be absolutely happy you need God. 3 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: I don't know what gizmos are, but the ultimate goals of transhumanism and religion are heaven on earth and afterlife. One can achieve it and one cannot.
The Nehor Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 2 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: with the help of smart people. If we ever make a Transhumanist Utopia, we won't have to worry about inequality The elimination of inequality does not suddenly make people into wise superior beings no matter how much some crackpot economists and sociologists might wish it to be so. There have been small societies throughout history who practiced complete equality. It may have been nicer then some other societies around it but it was not heaven on earth.
TheSkepticChristian Posted March 2, 2016 Author Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) 23 minutes ago, The Nehor said: The idea that if people just had the right tools, toys, and society that people would naturally become wonderful is a myth. A beautiful myth but still a myth. The truth is that we don't know, we can only speculate. However, it is true that people today are nicer than they were 60 years ago, and even nicer than they were 200 years ago, and ever more nicer than they were 500 years ago, and even more more nicer than they were 2,000 years ago. So we can expect that people 200 years from now will be nicer than us. Contrary to religious expectations, the world is getting better. The killing rate is lower than ever. Edited March 2, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
The Nehor Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 4 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: The truth is that we don't know, we can only speculate. However, it is true that people today are nicer than they were 60 years ago, and even nicer than they were 200 years ago, and ever more nicer than they were 500 years ago, and even more more nicer than they were 2,000 years ago. So we can expect that people 200 years from now will be nicer than us. Contrary to religious expectations, the world is getting better. The killing rate is lower than ever. I do not believe people are nicer now then they were in the past. We have a different social standards which means we probably prefer our niceness to that of the past but that proves nothing except that we happen to like our generation. What is the "killing rate"? It is true that war deaths have dropped since the 1940s (probably the highest point in history) but is that because we get along better or because we have massive nuclear arsenals pointed at each other. Violent crime has dropped a lot in western society as well but is that a moral improvement or that it is much easier to get caught? The United States currently has the highest per capita imprisonment rate in the world and possibly in all of recorded history. That speaks to either a culture of criminality (not supported) or fear and paranoia of others (bingo!) that does not speak of moral improvement. Yes, the western world is at peace and we have security. It has been a long time since a serious threat. 9/11 was a drop in a bucket compared to violence of the past and we went to pieces. We can get hate groups together over immigrant possibly taking our jobs. Imagine how much we would hate if they threatened our lives. We are in a sappy indulgent period. Historically these lead to decadence (already well underway) and a collapse into desperation. The Victorian ideal of stately civilized progress was cute at the time but history does not support it.
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