Wondering about God's Abilities

[Sanpitch]

Time to move to a higher plain of thought.  This may be a silly useless item to think about and with no answer but I'd like to see if anyone has comments.  When I am around somebody praying to God, I think, God is listening to a few hundred million other people of all faiths and beliefs and he is also watching over several billion people who he loves dearly, how is it possible for one person, God is a person right?, to follow so much communication.  He supposedly loves all his children, not just the LDS, and knows what they are doing.

I know, we don't understand how a spirit creature or God can travel from near Kolob to Earth in a split second and handle all the other duties as administrator of the Universe but it's just too much for me to accept or imagine as possible.  Any thoughts on the subject?

Edited January 9, 2016 by Sanpitch

[JLHPROF]

7 minutes ago, Sanpitch said:

Time to move to a high plain of thought.  This may be a silly useless item to think about and with no answer but I'd like to see if anyone has comments.  When I am around somebody praying to God, I think, God is listening to a few hundred million other people of all faiths and beliefs and he is also watching over several billion people who he loves dearly, how is it possible for one person, God is a person right?, to follow so much communication.  He supposedly loves all his children, not just the LDS, and knows what they are doing.

I know, we don't understand how a spirit creature or God can travel from near Kolob to Earth in a split second and handle all the other duties as administrator of the Universe but it's just too much for me to accept or imagine as possible.  Any thoughts on the subject?

Laws of physics may not apply the way we think they do.

But if we think of the mind as a computer, then imagine a computer that is able to see all things, its inputs are not limited to one or two channels like a mortal mind.  Spiritual wifi minds uploading and downloading masses of data.

Just a bit of speculation since we really have no idea how he does it, just that he does.  And that we will too one day.
Remember Moses 1:8 - 8

• And it came to pass that Moses looked, and beheld the world upon which he was created; and Moses beheld the world and the ends thereof, and all the children of men which are, and which were created; of the same he greatly marveled and wondered.

 

[The Nehor]

The ability to think about and focus on one thing at a time is likely a mortal limitation designed to see what we will think about and focus on.

[Sanpitch]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Laws of physics may not apply the way we think they do.

But if we think of the mind as a computer, then imagine a computer that is able to see all things, its inputs are not limited to one or two channels like a mortal mind.  Spiritual wifi minds uploading and downloading masses of data.

Just a bit of speculation since we really have no idea how he does it, just that he does.  And that we will too one day.
Remember Moses 1:8 - 8

• And it came to pass that Moses looked, and beheld the world upon which he was created; and Moses beheld the world and the ends thereof, and all the children of men which are, and which were created; of the same he greatly marveled and wondered.

 

 So God might be a massive sized computer, but that computer loves us all, or most of us.  (Take rather lightly)

Edited January 9, 2016 by Sanpitch
spelling

[strappinglad]

I think God has mastered the art of delegation.

[JLHPROF]

25 minutes ago, Sanpitch said:

 So God might be a massive seized computer, but that computer loves us all, or most of us.  (Take rather lightly)

I wouldn't go that far. 

But if a machine can accept multiple input sources simultaneously, why couldn't a perfected mind?
 

1 minute ago, strappinglad said:

I think God has mastered the art of delegation.

That too.

[Sanpitch]

16 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I wouldn't go that far. 

But if a machine can accept multiple input sources simultaneously, why couldn't a perfected mind?
 

That too.

Think of the memory required to follow the 10 billion or so people who have lived on earth and what they did in their life.  They lived an average of 50 - 60 years and everything needs to be recorded.  Maybe there were lots of helpers involved.

[Tacenda]

30 minutes ago, Sanpitch said:

Think of the memory required to follow the 10 billion or so people who have lived on earth and what they did in their life.  They lived an average of 50 - 60 years and everything needs to be recorded.  Maybe there were lots of helpers involved.

Plenty of angels to help too.  Have you ever heard of them helping children down here, those that suffer through abuse or an accident?  I think I've read or heard that they speak of remembering a presence that helps them, either by making them feel peace or taking them spiritually out of the physical to avoid the abuse.   

[Maidservant]

Idea one.

I am aware that my ancestors and other lovely spirits minister to me.  They are responsible for most of my "answers".  I suppose if there was a problem they couldn't handle, they'd get help.

Idea two.

Prayer may be less about getting and more about becoming.  When we pray it changes us.  Our energy changes.  We have the potential to become full of the God energy (spirit), and thus this allows blessings and guidance to flow through.  It doesn't require someone on the other end of the prayer, we end up being the answer-er of our own prayers because of the change in us, but more connected to the right (creative and comforting) spirit or energy. I actually just got this thought just this week, so I'm trying it on for size to see if it really holds up, lol.

 

[Storm Rider]

2 hours ago, Sanpitch said:

Time to move to a high plain of thought.  This may be a silly useless item to think about and with no answer but I'd like to see if anyone has comments.  When I am around somebody praying to God, I think, God is listening to a few hundred million other people of all faiths and beliefs and he is also watching over several billion people who he loves dearly, how is it possible for one person, God is a person right?, to follow so much communication.  He supposedly loves all his children, not just the LDS, and knows what they are doing.

I know, we don't understand how a spirit creature or God can travel from near Kolob to Earth in a split second and handle all the other duties as administrator of the Universe but it's just too much for me to accept or imagine as possible.  Any thoughts on the subject?

The problem with these type of questions is there is an underlying assumption that we can understand God.  I have always appreciated Brigham Young's comments about mysteries:

• Many have tried to penetrate to the First Cause of all things; but it would be as easy for an ant to number the grains of sand on the earth. It is not for man, with his limited intelligence, to grasp eternity in his comprehension. There is an eternity of life, from which we were composed by the wisdom and skill of superior Beings. It would be as easy for a gnat to trace the history of man back to his origin as for man to fathom the First Cause of all things, lift the veil of eternity, and reveal the mysteries that have been sought after by philosophers from the beginning. What, then, should be the calling and duty of the children of men? Instead of inquiring after the origin of the Gods—instead of trying to explore the depths of eternities that have been, that are, and that will be,—instead of endeavouring to discover the boundaries of boundless space, let them seek to know the object of their present existence, and how to apply, in the most profitable manner for their mutual good and salvation, the intelligence they possess. Let them seek to know and thoroughly understand things within their reach, and to make themselves well acquainted with the object of their being here, by diligently seeking unto a superior Power for information, and by the careful study of the best books.

I feel strongly that even attempting to describe God falls pathetically short.  Brigham has the gist of it, it is better to use the intelligence we have to its utmost to know God and how best to serve him.  

[Cold Steel]

God also knows the multitude of planets and solar systems that are "HIS." More than the sand on the seashore. Perhaps it has something to do with how we define God. If the term is a plural term like Man, it could include a multiplicity of entities and a cosmos full of universes, each with its untold trillions of galaxies, each galaxy with billions of solar systems. To think there is one entity called "GOD" is not realistic.

Jesus prayed to the Father concerning the Twelve: "...that THEY may be ONE, even as WE are ONE." The sectarians believe that GOD consists of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. But if 1+1+1=1, why can't 10+10+10=1? Or more...many more? When we say "MAN" has gone to the Moon, we don't mean a single entity. Why can't the same be said of God? In other words, perhaps there is delegation of authority. I don't know.  

The Lord said, "All kingdoms have a law given; and there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom. And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions. All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified."  (D&C 88:36-39)

Then there's the old stand-by: "Yea, verily I say unto you, in that day when the Lord shall come, he shall reveal all things — things which have passed, and hidden things which no man knew, things of the earth, by which it was made, and the purpose and the end thereof — things most precious, things that are above, and things that are beneath, things that are in the earth, and upon the earth, and in heaven."  (D&C 101:32-34) 

These scriptures are only two that convince me that they are too profound to be produced by a New York farm boy. They sound like they were written more by a celestial attorney. And the passage in D&C 88 has proven especially prescient. Whether we're talking astrophysics or microbiology, it appears to be true. (I just saw Antman, where the possibility of shrinking infinitely was a part of the plot. And though fantasy, there's a lot of truth in the idea that everything is a system in the midst of like systems in all directions.) 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2016 by Cold Steel

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Cold Steel said:

God also knows the multitude of planets and solar systems that are "HIS." More than the sand on the seashore. Perhaps it has something to do with how we define God. If the term is a plural term like Man, it could include a multiplicity of entities and a cosmos full of universes, each with its untold trillions of galaxies, each galaxy with billions of solar systems. To think there is one entity called "GOD" is not realistic.

Jesus prayed to the Father concerning the Twelve: "...that THEY may be ONE, even as WE are ONE." The sectarians believe that GOD consists of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. But if 1+1+1=1, why can't 10+10+10=1? Or more...many more? When we say "MAN" has gone to the Moon, we don't mean a single entity. Why can't the same be said of God? In other words, perhaps there is delegation of authority. I don't know.  

The Lord said, "All kingdoms have a law given; and there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom. And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions. All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified."  (D&C 88:36-39)

Then there's the old stand-by: "Yea, verily I say unto you, in that day when the Lord shall come, he shall reveal all things — things which have passed, and hidden things which no man knew, things of the earth, by which it was made, and the purpose and the end thereof — things most precious, things that are above, and things that are beneath, things that are in the earth, and upon the earth, and in heaven."  (D&C 101:32-34) 

These scriptures are only two that convince me that they are too profound to be produced by a New York farm boy. They sound like they were written more by a celestial attorney. And the passage in D&C 88 has proven especially prescient. Whether we're talking astrophysics or microbiology, it appears to be true. (I just saw Antman, where the possibility of shrinking infinitely was a part of the plot. And though fantasy, there's a lot of truth in the idea that everything is a system in the midst of like systems in all directions.) 

 

 

Sorry to derail a bit, but couldn't JS have gotten help from Sidney Rigdon, who was a pastor, to write the doctrine and covenants?

Edited January 9, 2016 by Tacenda

[The Nehor]

Just now, Tacenda said:

Sorry to derail a bit, but couldn't JS have gotten help from Signey Rigdon, who was a pastor, to write the doctrine and covenants?

It would make him a liar as much of it is written in the First Person as God. For some of the other bits others contributed. Joseph never touched Section 134 before it was published for example which is why I consider it the most dubious of all the sections.

[CV75]

13 hours ago, Sanpitch said:

Time to move to a high plain of thought.  This may be a silly useless item to think about and with no answer but I'd like to see if anyone has comments.  When I am around somebody praying to God, I think, God is listening to a few hundred million other people of all faiths and beliefs and he is also watching over several billion people who he loves dearly, how is it possible for one person, God is a person right?, to follow so much communication.  He supposedly loves all his children, not just the LDS, and knows what they are doing.

I know, we don't understand how a spirit creature or God can travel from near Kolob to Earth in a split second and handle all the other duties as administrator of the Universe but it's just too much for me to accept or imagine as possible.  Any thoughts on the subject?

I don't know, but I also don't know how this computer/internet thingy works either, but it does! So prayer (which is a form of split-second travel) works, too!

[Sanpitch]

24 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I don't know, but I also don't know how this computer/internet thingy works either, but it does! So prayer (which is a form of split-second travel) works, too!

I use to wonder about how a computer can do so much and especially how a computer chip the size of a finger nail can hold so many photos.  I finally figured it out so I'm not puzzled by it any more, it's magic.  Yes, that's the answer.  That's the answer for a lot of things. (grin)

[Storm Rider]

7 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Sorry to derail a bit, but couldn't JS have gotten help from Sidney Rigdon, who was a pastor, to write the doctrine and covenants?

 

That would be the typical method, but that then poses the issue of why Sidney or any of the other men that assisted him did not tell people they helped Joseph write scripture.  Yet, none of them did that.  It leaves the source of scripture to be Joseph himself. 

[CV75]

3 hours ago, Sanpitch said:

I use to wonder about how a computer can do so much and especially how a computer chip the size of a finger nail can hold so many photos.  I finally figured it out so I'm not puzzled by it any more, it's magic.  Yes, that's the answer.  That's the answer for a lot of things. (grin)

Now if they can only figure how to make that chip more portable so it can travel... I predict in some future day, people will be able to carry them everywhere they go in some small device.

[The Nehor]

42 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Now if they can only figure how to make that chip more portable so it can travel... I predict in some future day, people will be able to carry them everywhere they go in some small device.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I recommend they use a phenomenologistical naturamimetic design like a white stone or something like that, as it's more aesthetically in tune with nature!

[Sanpitch]

Looking back at the past is interesting also.  Man's abilities are amazing.  Most people here are probably too young to remember the big phones hanging on the wall with a crank on them.  You turn the crank and electrical current signaled the phone operator.  She asked, "Number Please" and you tell her.  You were usually on a party line with four - five or six other phones and they all rang when someone got a call, but they had different number of rings for each phone.  Now I can go to Lake Powell in Utah out in the wilderness and pick up the cell phone and call anywhere in the world.  It still flabergasts me.

A little story, in Gunnison, Utah someone was about to have a baby years ago, so they called the operator and told her they needed doctor Hagan, the only doctor in town, the operator said, "he is out of town, I'll connect you to the midwife."  That's how it was handled in those days.

[Zakuska]

Better known as... Sychrony

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fstlidOi5Dw

 

Edited January 9, 2016 by Zakuska

[CV75]

40 minutes ago, Sanpitch said:

Looking back at the past is interesting also.  Man's abilities are amazing.  Most people here are probably too young to remember the big phones hanging on the wall with a crank on them.  You turn the crank and electrical current signaled the phone operator.  She asked, "Number Please" and you tell her.  You were usually on a party line with four - five or six other phones and they all rang when someone got a call, but they had different number of rings for each phone.  Now I can go to Lake Powell in Utah out in the wilderness and pick up the cell phone and call anywhere in the world.  It still flabergasts me.

A little story, in Gunnison, Utah someone was about to have a baby years ago, so they called the operator and told her they needed doctor Hagan, the only doctor in town, the operator said, "he is out of town, I'll connect you to the midwife."  That's how it was handled in those days.

Cool--there is something to be gained by having access to "things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order" (D&C 130:9)! If we view our existence as a system of progression, the past is an inferior, but not an unproductive or worthless kingdom.

[Sanpitch]

22 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Plenty of angels to help too.  Have you ever heard of them helping children down here, those that suffer through abuse or an accident?  I think I've read or heard that they speak of remembering a presence that helps them, either by making them feel peace or taking them spiritually out of the physical to avoid the abuse.   

Hi, Tacenda.  Maybe there are angels helping some children but my mind goes to the hundreds of thousands that don't seem to be helped.  Children in Africa or other poorer nations where there is a lot of starvation and dying, or those caught in Earthquakes or other natural Earth disasters.  They don't seem to get a lot of help.  A lot of things are not man caused, diseases, malaria, influenza and so forth.  

[Cold Steel]

On 1/9/2016 at 2:28 AM, Tacenda said:

Sorry to derail a bit, but couldn't JS have gotten help from Sidney Rigdon, who was a pastor, to write the doctrine and covenants?

I would think not. First, it would presuppose that he would be part of a conspiracy with Smith and I don't believe he was dishonest. He, with Alexander Campbell, were co-founding the churches of Christ, and he believed in Campbell's doctrines. The only reason he left (with others, like Parley P. Pratt) was because he failed to see where Campbell received the ministerial authority to perform the ordinances of the gospel. They went with those who agreed to Smith's camp. In other words, they were seeking for the truth. Read Parley's autobiography for more detail. Joining a fake sect and making up revelations certainly isn't going to lead anyone to the truth?

The doctrinal differences between Joseph and Sidney also were significant enough at the beginning that it would be unlikely. 

Many people at that time were concerned with the very principles Smith taught that made Mormonism such a popular religion (such as the restoration of the spiritual gifts, renewed revelation, apostles and authority in the ministry). It would be too cynical for me to think Rigdon would do it for less than honorable reasons. Plus, many doctrines that turned out to be "new wine" in the D&C have since been substantiated as legitimate first century Christian doctrines. Yet they were so far removed from Campbell's -- and Campbell and Rigdon once thought the same. 

Finally, Rigdon put his life on the line several times for the church, and was also nearly beaten to the point of death. When a man shows himself willing to die for a cause, that impresses me. Con men don't generally go that far. 

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Cold Steel said:

I would think not. First, it would presuppose that he would be part of a conspiracy with Smith and I don't believe he was dishonest. He, with Alexander Campbell, were co-founding the churches of Christ, and he believed in Campbell's doctrines. The only reason he left (with others, like Parley P. Pratt) was because he failed to see where Campbell received the ministerial authority to perform the ordinances of the gospel. They went with those who agreed to Smith's camp. In other words, they were seeking for the truth. Read Parley's autobiography for more detail. Joining a fake sect and making up revelations certainly isn't going to lead anyone to the truth?

The doctrinal differences between Joseph and Sidney also were significant enough at the beginning that it would be unlikely. 

Many people at that time were concerned with the very principles Smith taught that made Mormonism such a popular religion (such as the restoration of the spiritual gifts, renewed revelation, apostles and authority in the ministry). It would be too cynical for me to think Rigdon would do it for less than honorable reasons. Plus, many doctrines that turned out to be "new wine" in the D&C have since been substantiated as legitimate first century Christian doctrines. Yet they were so far removed from Campbell's -- and Campbell and Rigdon once thought the same. 

Finally, Rigdon put his life on the line several times for the church, and was also nearly beaten to the point of death. When a man shows himself willing to die for a cause, that impresses me. Con men don't generally go that far. 

I wasn't meaning either men were con men.  Couldn't Sidney have revelation or have insight too?