Jeanne Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Personally, I fail to see much difference between open marriage and polygamy. 1
Zakuska Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Just now, Jeanne said: Personally, I fail to see much difference between open marriage and polygamy. Ditto.
Gray Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 27 minutes ago, Danzo said: You talking percentages or absolute numbers? Any reference to that? Absolute numbers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_marriage_incidence#cite_note-Blumstein.2CSchwartz.2C1983-1 I'm not sure if we have good data on this though.
Gray Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 32 minutes ago, Danzo said: I know some accept gay marriage, what I am wondering is if those churches also strongly advocate for complete fidelity within those marriage. I don't know the answer to that question, but I suspect they do.
mfbukowski Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, Gray said: I think you'll find very few people would advocate open marriage, no matter where they stand on gay marriage. Of course you can always cherry pick whichever talking heads you find most alarming to try to build a case, but they don't speak for anyone but themselves. This reminds me about all the rhetoric in the past that the civil rights movement was really a communist conspiracy. Forgive me, but I see no resemblance between President Kimball's concept of truth and your own. What views on truth do you think you hold in common? Truths which always work can be seen as absolute truth. One such truth is the golden rule for example. He also speaks of truth being contextual within a sphere. Knowledge of science is not knowledge of religion knowledge of plumbing is not knowledge of brain surgery. He quotes DC 93 which is one of my cornerstone principles. And then you seem to ignore Alma and the professors. All truth is contextual or in its sphere. Scientific knowledge has nothing to do with religious knowledge. The truth of religion can only be known by spiritual means. I have been planning on updating and getting back to my blog, and I have had other questions on this point so I changed an email I wrote someone into a blog on my blogsite here Edited January 7, 2016 by mfbukowski Include further discussion on blogsite
jwhitlock Posted January 8, 2016 Author Posted January 8, 2016 19 hours ago, california boy said: This is the problem that I have with your attitudes towards gay marriage. CFR that gay marriage is a tipping point for straight marriages infidelity. Show me where gay marriage is causing straight marriages to be more promiscuous because of the behavior of some gay couples. What do you base this statement on? Gays hardly invented infidelity. You still don't get it; you're titling at a strawman. Go back, read the OP and read my comments for understanding. Some gay couples?? Try the vast majority of gay couples. At least get that right.
jwhitlock Posted January 8, 2016 Author Posted January 8, 2016 9 hours ago, Gray said: Are you sure about a "vast majority"? What about lesbian couples? There are certainly a greater number of straight couples in open marriages than gay couples. And marital infidelity is pretty common in straight couples, which isn't really that different from the open marriage thing. Open marriage and gay marriage are two different subjects. To support one is not to automatically support the other, any more than supporting straight marriage means supporting adultery. Marital infidelity is "pretty common"? Haven't you made that claim before without any support?
jwhitlock Posted January 8, 2016 Author Posted January 8, 2016 8 hours ago, Jeanne said: Personally, I fail to see much difference between open marriage and polygamy. Re-read the thread.
Gray Posted January 8, 2016 Posted January 8, 2016 19 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Truths which always work can be seen as absolute truth. One such truth is the golden rule for example. He also speaks of truth being contextual within a sphere. Knowledge of science is not knowledge of religion knowledge of plumbing is not knowledge of brain surgery. He quotes DC 93 which is one of my cornerstone principles. And then you seem to ignore Alma and the professors. All truth is contextual or in its sphere. Scientific knowledge has nothing to do with religious knowledge. The truth of religion can only be known by spiritual means. I have been planning on updating and getting back to my blog, and I have had other questions on this point so I changed an email I wrote someone into a blog on my blogsite here Thanks mfb, I'll take a look at that today. I'm interested in understanding where you're coming from.
Gray Posted January 8, 2016 Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) 12 hours ago, jwhitlock said: Marital infidelity is "pretty common"? Haven't you made that claim before without any support? http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/28/health/28well.html?_r=0 Let's put it this way - the number of straight Americans who commit adultery is greater than the number of gay Americans who exist Edited January 8, 2016 by Gray
JLHPROF Posted January 8, 2016 Posted January 8, 2016 20 hours ago, Jeanne said: Personally, I fail to see much difference between open marriage and polygamy. The "marriage" part. 2
jwhitlock Posted January 8, 2016 Author Posted January 8, 2016 5 hours ago, Gray said: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/28/health/28well.html?_r=0 Let's put it this way - the number of straight Americans who commit adultery is greater than the number of gay Americans who exist Percentages - not absolute numbers - are what's important here.
Gray Posted January 8, 2016 Posted January 8, 2016 1 hour ago, jwhitlock said: Percentages - not absolute numbers - are what's important here. That's pretty arbitrary. Why are percentages more important?
carbon dioxide Posted January 8, 2016 Posted January 8, 2016 On 1/7/2016 at 11:54 AM, Jeanne said: Personally, I fail to see much difference between open marriage and polygamy. In an open marriage usually one or both oft he married spouses can have relations with someone else whom they are not married to. Not the case in polygamy. 1
jwhitlock Posted January 8, 2016 Author Posted January 8, 2016 17 minutes ago, Gray said: That's pretty arbitrary. Why are percentages more important? You've got to be kidding. We talk about percentages and their effect throughout this thread. You throw out an absolute number argument, as if it has any relevance, and then you say dealing with percentages is arbitrary??
Calm Posted January 8, 2016 Posted January 8, 2016 19 minutes ago, Gray said: That's pretty arbitrary. Why are percentages more important? 1 out of ten is significant. 1 out of a million is not.
Teancum Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 On January 5, 2016 at 10:25 PM, jwhitlock said: We're talking about full monogamy within marriage. That includes plural marriage. SSM makes full monogamy optional and not expected (or desired, by many) within marriage. This isn't a difficult difference to understand. Plural marriage by definition is not monogamy. Even the 19th century LDS leaders understood this simple fact when they argued for polygamy by arguing that monogamy was responsible for all sorts of whoredoms and prostitution.
mfbukowski Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Teancum said: Plural marriage by definition is not monogamy. Even the 19th century LDS leaders understood this simple fact when they argued for polygamy by arguing that monogamy was responsible for all sorts of whoredoms and prostitution. On the other hand I think it would be hard to argue that marriage is not marriage So how would you define marriage? Is it anything? Edited January 9, 2016 by mfbukowski
Teancum Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, mfbukowski said: On the other hand I think it would be hard to argue that marriage is not marriage So how would you define marriage? Is it anything? My personal preference is one man and one woman only in total fidelity. While I am not ever exercised about SSM I would have preferred a civil union concept so at least rights given to married couple were not denied those is SSM relationships. I also am vehemently opposed to polygamy especially when it is allegedly God sanctioned. Edited January 9, 2016 by Teancum
mfbukowski Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 2 hours ago, Teancum said: My personal preference is one man and one woman only in total fidelity. While I am not ever exercised about SSM I would have preferred a civil union concept so at least rights given to married couple were not denied those is SSM relationships. I also am vehemently opposed to polygamy especially when it is allegedly God sanctioned. Well that sounds like we agree 1
Teancum Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 15 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Well that sounds like we agree By the way I listened to a podcast you did on the Given's book. I want to listen to it again but there was some interesting points you made.
The Nehor Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 16 hours ago, Teancum said: Plural marriage by definition is not monogamy. Even the 19th century LDS leaders understood this simple fact when they argued for polygamy by arguing that monogamy was responsible for all sorts of whoredoms and prostitution. Still is responsible.
Teancum Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Still is responsible. I have no idea what your point is.
mfbukowski Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 44 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Well that sounds like we agree I should clarify. I agree with the first part but I have no problem with God sanctioned polygamy.
Teancum Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 9 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: I should clarify. I agree with the first part but I have no problem with God sanctioned polygamy. Ok. The problem is there are a lot of charismatic religious leaders who say God has told them to do polygamy or all sorts of other sexual abnormalities. It is tough to know who God is telling what. My thoughts are God is not telling any of them, including Joseph Smith and his successors to engage in such nonsense.
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