divinenature Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Any know of a more traditional LDS Parents of LGBT children support group w/o activism needed.Have a few friends beside myself that might be able to use one. Have you looked into Mama Dragons? I'm sure they would love to give support without requiring any activism.
Meadowchik Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 I thought that was what you meant but I have seen so many parents of such children think they need to march with them, etc. I wanted to make clear that there are parents who sustain the church leaders but still have a relationship with their children. Cal, I would love to know of such a support group. Deborah, I found a couple: http://affirmation.org/ http://www.ldsfamilyfellowship.org/ 1
Calm Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) Have you looked into Mama Dragons? I'm sure they would love to give support without requiring any activism.But do they get involved in discussions about activism? I am not interested in that aspect at this point, from any POV. Affirmation is at least somewhat activist oriented, I believe. And I am not interested in a group that uses John Dehlin as an authority, which the second one does. Edited November 11, 2015 by Calm 3
divinenature Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 If there are any parents of gay children (in or out of the closet) who would like to reach out to the Mama Dragon group please PM me. It is a very private group, for obvious reasons, but I can get you in touch with a wonderful woman who is a member. I just hope that everyone can find the support they need.
divinenature Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Calm, Mama Dragons offer support seperate from their activism. If that helps.
Deborah Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 I did look at Mama Dragons and it's a little too activist for my tastes. 1
carbon dioxide Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 I'm not sure that it is overreacting to this policy alone. With your statement of true last month, not true today, that could be applied to marriages as well. If your marriage was good for 'time and all eternity' on day one then it obviously should be the same forever and there would be no divorce within the church. People change or people learn more about whom they are committed to and they realize they don't like that commitment anymore. One may overlook some small flaws or not acknowledge they are even flaws at all in the beginning. Over time, eyes are opened to those flaws and there may be a breaking point. And this policy may be someone's breaking point. What you are describing are people who have been questioning things for a while and this policy is the final straw for them. That is not what I am saying. What I am saying is one believes in the restoration and the Book of Mormon 10 days ago and declare it is all true, there these things are still true today after the policy. The only people who are leaving are people who have been drifting away for a while now. They are not the committed member that believes. It is not rational for a person to say one day before the policy came out to say "The Book of Mormon is true and Joseph saw God" and then one day later say the opposite based on a policy that is completely unrelated to the restoration and Book of Mormon. 2
Russell C McGregor Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 If there are any parents of gay children (in or out of the closet) who would like to reach out to the Mama Dragon group please PM me. It is a very private group, for obvious reasons, but I can get you in touch with a wonderful woman who is a member. I just hope that everyone can find the support they need. Based upon their angry rant, reported on a Patheos blog, they look pretty activist to me.
Avatar4321 Posted November 12, 2015 Author Posted November 12, 2015 What about it specifically boggles your mind?That despite the fact that we have been given the keys to warn us, so many ignore them and still follow the path that leads to apostasy 1
Daniel2 Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) I did look at Mama Dragons and it's a little too activist for my tastes. Have you looked into LDS Family Fellowship? They are the group that probably offers the most support, without activism... http://www.ldsfamilyfellowship.org/ Obviously, any support group right now is likely to be grappling with the policy, so I imagine you'll see discussion anywhere, right now... But LDS FF doesn't seem to go public with their discussions.... at least, that's my impression. Welcome to LDS Family Fellowship LDS Family Fellowship is a support organization, engaged in strengthening relationships between LGBTQ (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Questioning) individuals, their families and friends. We believe that LGBTQ individuals are great blessings to their families, communities and society at large. We strive to become more understanding and appreciative of each other and seek to put behind us all attitudes that are anti-family, threaten loving relationships or drive family members apart. All who can support these goals are welcome to contribute to our group. The LDS Family Fellowship Support Group is located on Facebook. Come join us… Join our Facebook Support Group by clicking here… LDS Family Fellowship does not endorse censorship and believes comments posted should be a free exchange of honest opinions. We do, however, encourage civility. The opinions expressed are solely those who have chosen to comment and do not necessarily reflect the goals and mission of LDS Family Fellowship. Note: A Facebook account is required and you must submit an Invite to the Facebook group to participate. Edited November 12, 2015 by Daniel2 1
SmileyMcGee Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) That despite the fact that we have been given the keys to warn us, so many ignore them and still follow the path that leads to apostasyI'm thinking this only boggles your mind if you believe that apostasy is clearly bad. But it doesn't seem that everyone believes that. Edited November 12, 2015 by SmileyMcGee
Tacenda Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Just a sampling of more to come. Some on here that would like to voice their thoughts ought to PM Bill. http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2015/11/reflections-tyler-daniel/"Our first in a series of Reflections of Latter-Day Saints who are struggling at present with the Church. We have started this series after the policy change affecting those in a Same Sex Marriage and their children. Today is Tyler Daniel. If you wish to have your voice heard email me at reelmormon@gmail.com or message me on facebook."
Deborah Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Have you looked into LDS Family Fellowship? They are the group that probably offers the most support, without activism... I joined Building Bridges on FB but it's turning out not so much to be support for families of LGBT but support for the gay lifestyle, which I cannot support. It makes me understand more why the policy change because it does appear that there really is the thought that the church will some day change it's policies on gay marriage. The church being the organization separate from the laws of God. A clear stance had to be taken separate from the laws of the land regarding gay marriage itself and fairness and equal treatment in the society at large. 2
FormerLDS Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Truth is what is confirmed by the Holy Spirit, no matter where you heard it from. We should never just take someone's word that what they are saying is true. The missionaries never tell the people they are teaching to just take their word for it. Neither should parents tell their children that. My parents taught me the principles of the Gospel and made sure to tell me to find out the truth of what they were teaching for myself. I stand by my point. You cannot compare a marriage that ends in a divorce with someone who no longer believes the truth. In the infamous words of Col. Sherman T. Potter: "Horse Hockey" Truth is ONLY what is plainly written in the Word of God. Nowhere in the Bible does God equate a feeling in the heart with a test of truth. That's why Mononi's promise is so self defeating; how are unsuspecting investigators to determine if Mornoni's promise is truth? Was there a test of truth to determine if that test of truth is true? Hogwash. God's Word is His test of truth.
KevinG Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) In the infamous words of Col. Sherman T. Potter: "Horse Hockey" Truth is ONLY what is plainly written in the Word of God. Nowhere in the Bible does God equate a feeling in the heart with a test of truth. That's why Mononi's promise is so self defeating; how are unsuspecting investigators to determine if Mornoni's promise is truth? Was there a test of truth to determine if that test of truth is true? Hogwash. God's Word is His test of truth. Wait? You think a witness of the Holy Ghost is merely "a feeling in the heart"? Now I know why you are no longer LDS. Perhaps if you had paid attention when the gift of the Holy Ghost was described as: D&C 46: 11 For all have not every gift given unto them; for there are many gifts, and to every man is given a gift by the Spirit of God.12 To some is given one, and to some is given another, that all may be profited thereby. 13 To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world. 14 To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful. 15 And again, to some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know the differences of administration, as it will be pleasing unto the same Lord, according as the Lord will, suiting his mercies according to the conditions of the children of men. 16 And again, it is given by the Holy Ghost to some to know the diversities of operations, whether they be of God, that the manifestations of the Spirit may be given to every man to profit withal. 17 And again, verily I say unto you, to some is given, by the Spirit of God, the word of wisdom. 18 To another is given the word of knowledge, that all may be taught to be wise and to have knowledge. 19 And again, to some it is given to have faith to be healed; 20 And to others it is given to have faith to heal. 21 And again, to some is given the working of miracles; 22 And to others it is given to prophesy; 23 And to others the discerning of spirits. 24 And again, it is given to some to speak with tongues; 25 And to another is given the interpretation of tongues. 26 And all these gifts come from God, for the benefit of the children of God. Edited November 12, 2015 by KevinG 4
sdc999 Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Truth is what is confirmed by the Holy Spirit, no matter where you heard it from. We should never just take someone's word that what they are saying is true. The missionaries never tell the people they are teaching to just take their word for it. Neither should parents tell their children that. My parents taught me the principles of the Gospel and made sure to tell me to find out the truth of what they were teaching for myself. I stand by my point. You cannot compare a marriage that ends in a divorce with someone who no longer believes the truth.You cannot honestly tell me that in history, two people have not sincerely asked God for a confirmation on the LDS church and come away with different answers. So then, what becomes the right answer? Of course you would say - The LDS answer because that is what you believe. So in essence, the church believes you either get the 'right' answer or you are wrong. So then, the Holy Spirit is taken out of the equation because there can only be one answer.
KevinG Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) You cannot honestly tell me that in history, two people have not sincerely asked God for a confirmation on the LDS church and come away with different answers. So then, what becomes the right answer? Of course you would say - The LDS answer because that is what you believe. So in essence, the church believes you either get the 'right' answer or you are wrong. So then, the Holy Spirit is taken out of the equation because there can only be one answer. To which I reply to all men. If you believe the Holy Spirit of God has guided you... follow that guidance. But do not stop there. Continually seek truth, and progression in your knowledge. Edited November 12, 2015 by KevinG 3
Mars Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Wait? You think a witness of the Holy Ghost is merely "a feeling in the heart"? i'm going to mind read, here: FormerLDS' talking points sound very American Evangelical. I've been told numerous times that I can't trust those shaky feelings in my heart - because it's all whimsical fancy. 2
Mars Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 You cannot honestly tell me that in history, two people have not sincerely asked God for a confirmation on the LDS church and come away with different answers. So then, what becomes the right answer? Of course you would say - The LDS answer because that is what you believe. So in essence, the church believes you either get the 'right' answer or you are wrong. So then, the Holy Spirit is taken out of the equation because there can only be one answer. i echo keving this has been discussed many times on here, as well. i don't think, and most members on here don't think such, that just because i'm mormon i'm right. i am mormon because God told me that the Book of Mormon came from Joseph Smith and that He and Jesus did indeed appear to Joseph Smith. i became convinced of the Restoration and Christianity in general. if someone prays and gets an answer that says "nope" or no answer at all, then i smile, clap them on the shoulder, and wish them the best in being true to themselves and whatever God they decide to worship. there is no conflict because there is no comparison. God doesn't want me to care what He tells someone else, He just wants me to care what He tells me. 1
KevinG Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 i'm going to mind read, here: FormerLDS' talking points sound very American Evangelical. I've been told numerous times that I can't trust those shaky feelings in my heart - because it's all whimsical fancy. Straight out of the curricula. Yes.
KevinG Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 We even sing it in our primary songs... Hold to the iron rod. What is the iron rod? The word of God. The word of God comes from the scriptures, the prophets, and the Holy Spirit. It is a very comprehensive system of teaching eternal truths, with checks, balances, and multiple channels to the source- God.
KevinG Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Truth is ONLY what is plainly written in the Word of God. Nowhere in the Bible does God equate a feeling in the heart with a test of truth. Whoops... Luke 24: 31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? 2
sdc999 Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 i echo keving this has been discussed many times on here, as well. i don't think, and most members on here don't think such, that just because i'm mormon i'm right. i am mormon because God told me that the Book of Mormon came from Joseph Smith and that He and Jesus did indeed appear to Joseph Smith. i became convinced of the Restoration and Christianity in general. if someone prays and gets an answer that says "nope" or no answer at all, then i smile, clap them on the shoulder, and wish them the best in being true to themselves and whatever God they decide to worship. there is no conflict because there is no comparison. God doesn't want me to care what He tells someone else, He just wants me to care what He tells me.'on here' maybe, but F&T meetings say differently. "I know this is the true church (most correct church) (the Lord's church)". That's not exactly saying, 'hey we could be right or others could be right.'But, I do think we worship the same God.
FormerLDS Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 So the Holy Spirit is "deceitful above all things"? No, the heart is deceitful above all things. Why would God ask you to trust in feelings from something he's already labeled as "deceitful above all things?" If I'm an apostate, it's because I chose to believe what God's word plainly says.
Mars Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) 'on here' maybe, but F&T meetings say differently. "I know this is the true church (most correct church) (the Lord's church)". That's not exactly saying, 'hey we could be right or others could be right.'But, I do think we worship the same God. not quite, imo. when God reveals a truth, it's only binding on the person who receives that truth. "what's true for me isn't true for you" - sure, i guess. i just don't think God expects people to live in accordance with things they haven't learned. i do know this is the true Church, the most correct church, the Lord's church, the only church with authority to act in His name. but if God hasn't revealed that to you, then God's got you on some other path that's between you and Him and it doesn't matter to me. i get how cocky this sounds, and how off-putting it can be to other people. i don't get a power trip or a "rawr, i'm right and that feels so good because dumb people are wrong!" or anything like that. i think that eventually, everyone who is of sincere heart who worships God in the way they feel God wants will iterate toward the final truth - that Jesus is the Christ, that the restoration is real, and all the appendages of the Gospel as currently taught and what will eventually be taught (revealed). most mormons I've met both in real life and on here feel this way. your mileage may vary. Edited November 12, 2015 by Mars
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