smac97 Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) Here: (http://tinyurl.com/phjnemh), as have saving temple ordinances (http://tinyurl.com/oe4ltfu), including sealings (http://tinyurl.com/o6j3bmk). ==These disparate perceptions on the definition, purpose, utility and power of the priesthood could, I think, explain why some folks in the OW movement find the CoC more to their liking. >>> Kelly points out that Community of Christ is “tiny” compared to the Mormon church; it has 250,000 members worldwide compared to a Mormon church membership of over 15 million. But it has become attractive to disaffected Mormons, particularly in Salt Lake City. >>> (Robin Linkhart, a lifelong Community of Christ member who now serves as a President of Seventy), who oversees Community of Christ’s Western USA Mission Field, lives in Colorado but says she spends about 75% of her time in Salt Lake City due to growing interest among “Latter-day seekers”. >>> “In 2012, our congregation in Salt Lake had dwindled down to about six active people,” she said. “They would meet the first and third Sunday of every month. Now we have a full slate of classes and worship every Sunday, and our numbers are running between 50 and 100 in attendance at each service.” ==I wonder how much longevity this phenomenon will have. My guess is . . . not very long. >>> Kelly says that Community of Christ did not interest her after her excommunication, but she does remember visiting the Community of Christ temple in Independence, Missouri, as a young girl. ==Hmm. I have some conjecture about why the CoC, which ordains women to the priesthood, which is what Kate Kelly has been agitating for, does not interest Kate Kelly. But I'll keep that conjecture to myself. >>> “There were paintings of women performing ordinances, because they have the priesthood,” she recalled. “I distinctly remember one of the docents saying to me, ‘Don’t worry, someday that will change in your church, too.’ And I remember being really shocked by that.” ==It could happen, I suppose. But I doubt it. Thanks, -Smac Edited October 1, 2015 by smac97
thesometimesaint Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) We're a voluntary association group. If Ms. Kelly, or others like her, find happiness in another group it is no skin off my nose. Ps; I agree with the doctrines of the Church. There has never been any requirement that I agree with everything any member says be they high or low. Edited October 1, 2015 by thesometimesaint 1
smac97 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Posted October 1, 2015 We're a voluntary association group. If Ms. Kelly, or others like her, find happiness in another group it is no skin off my nose. Same here. I hope folks leaving the LDS Church reconsider and return. If not, I wish them the best. Thanks, -Smac 1
Popular Post bluebell Posted October 1, 2015 Popular Post Posted October 1, 2015 It seems weird to me that someone would be willing to give up so much (including a belief in exaltation and eternal families) just so they might some day have the chance of being a bishop. 9
thesometimesaint Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 The only honor I've ever aspired to is the one called Dad. It's a nice one to have. 1
smac97 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) It seems weird to me that someone would be willing to give up so much (including a belief in exaltation and eternal families) just so they might some day have the chance of being a bishop. Yes, there does seem to be a bit of schizophrenia in the OW movement. They want the priesthood and the authority that comes with it, but they disregard it when exercised by others. They claim to want Pres. Monson to seek the will of the Lord on this issue, but they they issue "nothing less (than female ordination) will suffice"-like ultimatums that utterly disregard the role in the Church of revelation and of the Presiding High Priest. And Kate Kelly is proclaiming the need for women to have priesthood authority, but she turns her nose up at a religious organization that has it in place. Thanks, -Smac Edited October 1, 2015 by smac97 4
Buckeye Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 It seems weird to me that someone would be willing to give up so much (including a belief in exaltation and eternal families) just so they might some day have the chance of being a bishop. Seems ludicrous to me too. Can you point to someone who has done this? I have yet to meet a church member who desires to be a bishop. And I have yet to meet a former member who does not have a strong hope that, despite a lack of LDS ordinances, they can and will be with their family eternally (assuming that life continues after death). When members leave, it is not because they give up hope on this things. They mostly just reject LDS authority claims. 1
pogi Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) It seems weird to me that someone would be willing to give up so much (including a belief in exaltation and eternal families) just so they might some day have the chance of being a bishop. I am just the opposite...willing to give up my beliefs in order to avoid becoming a bishop Joking of course. Edited October 1, 2015 by pogi 3
bluebell Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Seems ludicrous to me too. Can you point to someone who has done this? I have yet to meet a church member who desires to be a bishop. And I have yet to meet a former member who does not have a strong hope that, despite a lack of LDS ordinances, they can and will be with their family eternally (assuming that life continues after death). When members leave, it is not because they give up hope on this things. They mostly just reject LDS authority claims.I'm just going off of what the article is claiming, that people are leaving to join the COC because they are dissatisfied with the LDS church over women's ordination.
JAHS Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 I am just the opposite...willing to give up my beliefs in order to avoid becoming a bishop Joking of course. I don't wear a suit, I sit in the back row of the church, I don't shake everyone's hand, and don't say much in Sunday School.It has worked so far. 1
smac97 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Posted October 1, 2015 I don't wear a suit, I sit in the back row of the church, I don't shake everyone's hand, and don't say much in Sunday School. It has worked so far. Really? You're seriously doing this? Just curious, -Smac
JAHS Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Really? You're seriously doing this?Just curious,-SmacI'd probably do most of those things anyway, but I can deffinately say that I do not aspire to be a Bishop.
The Nehor Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 The only honor I've ever aspired to is the one called Dad. It's a nice one to have. Go ahead and rub it in. As to those leaving:Bye.
Buckeye Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 I'm just going off of what the article is claiming, that people are leaving to join the COC because they are dissatisfied with the LDS church over women's ordination. But dissatisfaction with the church's teachings is not the same thing as giving up a belief in eternal families or desiring to hold a particular office - the things you raised. 1
Buckeye Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Go ahead and rub it in. As to those leaving:Bye. The God I worship takes a slight different approach: And it came to pass that the God of heaven looked upon the residue of the people, and he wept; and Enoch bore record of it, saying: How is it that the heavens weep, and shed forth their tears as the rain upon the mountains?
Popular Post Bobbieaware Posted October 1, 2015 Popular Post Posted October 1, 2015 But dissatisfaction with the church's teachings is not the same thing as giving up a belief in eternal families or desiring to hold a particular office - the things you raised.Over the years, I have learned the quickest and surest way to get rid of an attitude of dissatisfaction with the Church is to diligently magnify my own callings. 5
smac97 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Posted October 1, 2015 I'd probably do most of those things anyway, but I can deffinately say that I do not aspire to be a Bishop. I think most men who end up being called as bishops don't aspire to that position, either. I just find it a wee bit odd that some might take specific and deliberate countermeasures calculated to affirmatively avoid the calling. Thanks, -Smac
Ginger Snaps Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Seems ludicrous to me too. Can you point to someone who has done this? I have yet to meet a church member who desires to be a bishop. And I have yet to meet a former member who does not have a strong hope that, despite a lack of LDS ordinances, they can and will be with their family eternally (assuming that life continues after death). When members leave, it is not because they give up hope on this things. They mostly just reject LDS authority claims.I'm aware of someone who left for the CoC in another online community I visit, but mostly it just seems like people leave. As for Kate Kelly . . . well I really have nothing nice to say. I think the whole movement was contentious and duplicitous and that her post-excom actions speak pretty loudly.
bluebell Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 But dissatisfaction with the church's teachings is not the same thing as giving up a belief in eternal families or desiring to hold a particular office - the things you raised. If you join a church that specifically does not believe in the sealing ordinance, leaving a church that did have a sealing ordinance, then it seems reasonable to conclude that you have given up that belief upon joining that church. As for the other claim, the article quotes people who said that nothing other than women being allowed in leadership is enough to satisfy. 3
JAHS Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 I think most men who end up being called as bishops don't aspire to that position, either. I just find it a wee bit odd that some might take specific and deliberate countermeasures calculated to affirmatively avoid the calling.Thanks,-SmacTake it easy Smac, I'm mostly joking.
Gray Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 I think most men who end up being called as bishops don't aspire to that position, either. I just find it a wee bit odd that some might take specific and deliberate countermeasures calculated to affirmatively avoid the calling.Thanks,-Smac My elaborate face tattoos have done the trick so far.
Gray Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 If you join a church that specifically does not believe in the sealing ordinance, leaving a church that did have a sealing ordinance, then it seems reasonable to conclude that you have given up that belief upon joining that church. As for the other claim, the article quotes people who said that nothing other than women being allowed in leadership is enough to satisfy. I think people leaving for the COC are the ones who don't think those ordinances have any actual/literal effect.
smac97 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Posted October 1, 2015 Take it easy Smac, I'm mostly joking. I was not worked up or anything. As I said, I was "just curious." Thanks, -Smac
Buckeye Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 If you join a church that specifically does not believe in the sealing ordinance, leaving a church that did have a sealing ordinance, then it seems reasonable to conclude that you have given up that belief upon joining that church. As for the other claim, the article quotes people who said that nothing other than women being allowed in leadership is enough to satisfy. Not believing in the LDS sealing authority is not the same as not believing in eternal families. 99.9% of people who believe that their families are eternal are not sealed. The belief that women's ordination is mandatory and necessary is not the same thing as aspiring to hold a specific office. A woman can belief that the fullness of the gospel includes her having authority to baptize her children without demanding to be the bishop of the XYZ ward. 3
bluebell Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Not believing in the LDS sealing authority is not the same as not believing in eternal families. 99.9% of people who believe that their families are eternal are not sealed. I guess. If you don't need any authority to have enteral families, then you probably don't need any authority to be ordained either. These people should just ordain themselves. Then they can have eternal families AND hold the priesthood. They don't need a church at all. The belief that women's ordination is mandatory and necessary is not the same thing as aspiring to hold a specific office. A woman can belief that the fullness of the gospel includes her having authority to baptize her children without demanding to be the bishop of the XYZ ward. Like i said before, i'm going off of what the article said, which was that nothing counts unless women are eligible for leadership positions.
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