Rock Waterman, "boise Rescue" And "falsehood Of The Blackest Dye"

[drums12]

I occasionally get newsfeed notices from Alan Rock Waterman's facebook page because we have a couple of mutual friends.  So if one of our mutual friends "likes" one of his posts I'll see it.  So this morning I see a comment about the "Boise Rescue" as it's being called.  After seeing the post and reading the dozens of comments, I have a few thoughts and questions.

 

First of all, what's up with the term "Boise Rescue?"  I understand the reference to the "Swedish Rescue" which in turn was a reference to the Martin and Willie Handcart rescues (I assume it was anyway).  Did Elder Oaks and Brother Turley call it a rescue? Or is this just another example of critics/ex-mormons controlling the narrative?  

 

Second, I was deeply disturbed by some of the comments.  One person says that Elder Oaks was involved in his abuse.  Someone asked what type of abuse and he said "SRA" which apparently means "Satanic Ritual Abuse."  This person didn't elaborate.  I don't know whether he meant Elder Oaks was a perpetrator or was involved in covering for a perpetrator or what.  

 

I have had my own issues with Elder Oaks at times.  I disagree with many of his personal and political views.  However, I have no reason to believe he is anything other than a kind and sincere man.  I've met him briefly and heard him speak at two different stake conferences.  Such slanderous accusations, made without any evidence, seem akin to what Joseph Smith described as "falsehoods of the blackest dye."  Am I off base?  

 

 

[HappyJackWagon]

 

First of all, what's up with the term "Boise Rescue?"

 

I think the meeting was billed as a discussion about some of the challenging historical issues of the church which led people to think of the Swedish Rescue. It turned out not to be that same kind of attempt but the name had already stuck. I don't know who coined it but it originally seemed like something similar to the Swedish Rescue.

 

 

Second, I was deeply disturbed by some of the comments.  One person says that Elder Oaks was involved in his abuse.  Someone asked what type of abuse and he said "SRA" which apparently means "Satanic Ritual Abuse."  

This is just crazy talk from some bitter soul.

 

Whether or not I agree with everything the apostles and prophet say, it is impossible for me to believe they are anything but good, sincere men trying to do the will of God as they understand it.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Arizona Wilder, maybe? I doubt Bro. Oaks is involved in SRA.

[Scott Lloyd]

This is just crazy talk from some bitter soul.

 

Whether or not I agree with everything the apostles and prophet say, it is impossible for me to believe they are anything but good, sincere men trying to do the will of God as they understand it.

This looks like a vestige of the now widely discredited moral panic of the 1980s and 1990s.

 

This panic has been linked to dissociative identity disorder (multiple personality disorder) and false memory syndrome.

 

It strikes me as a highly pernicious phenomenon in that it can ruin -- or at least put a cloud on -- the reputations of innocent people, often after they have died and are thus not around to defend themselves.

 

I've often wondered if this or something like it is at the root of Martha Nibley Beck's bizarre allegations against her father.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[Gray]

I occasionally get newsfeed notices from Alan Rock Waterman's facebook page because we have a couple of mutual friends.  So if one of our mutual friends "likes" one of his posts I'll see it.  So this morning I see a comment about the "Boise Rescue" as it's being called.  After seeing the post and reading the dozens of comments, I have a few thoughts and questions.

 

First of all, what's up with the term "Boise Rescue?"  I understand the reference to the "Swedish Rescue" which in turn was a reference to the Martin and Willie Handcart rescues (I assume it was anyway).  Did Elder Oaks and Brother Turley call it a rescue? Or is this just another example of critics/ex-mormons controlling the narrative?  

 

Second, I was deeply disturbed by some of the comments.  One person says that Elder Oaks was involved in his abuse.  Someone asked what type of abuse and he said "SRA" which apparently means "Satanic Ritual Abuse."  This person didn't elaborate.  I don't know whether he meant Elder Oaks was a perpetrator or was involved in covering for a perpetrator or what.  

 

I have had my own issues with Elder Oaks at times.  I disagree with many of his personal and political views.  However, I have no reason to believe he is anything other than a kind and sincere man.  I've met him briefly and heard him speak at two different stake conferences.  Such slanderous accusations, made without any evidence, seem akin to what Joseph Smith described as "falsehoods of the blackest dye."  Am I off base?  

 

Satanic Ritual Abuse is an old bit of mass hysteria with almost no basis in fact. Satanists exist to troll Christians, they don't tend to murder virgins or anything like that. 

[Kenngo1969]

... Whether or not I agree with everything the apostles and prophet say, it is impossible for me to believe they are anything but good, sincere men trying to do the will of God as they understand it.

We often disagree, Sir (which, I confess, sometimes makes me want to do my best R. Lee Ermey impersonation: "What're you talking about, you jack wagon?!!" ), but not in this instance; not in this instance.  Thank you.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[sethpayne]

I think the meeting was billed as a discussion about some of the challenging historical issues of the church which led people to think of the Swedish Rescue. It turned out not to be that same kind of attempt but the name had already stuck. I don't know who coined it but it originally seemed like something similar to the Swedish Rescue.

 

This is just crazy talk from some bitter soul.

 

Whether or not I agree with everything the apostles and prophet say, it is impossible for me to believe they are anything but good, sincere men trying to do the will of God as they understand it.

 

Let's just be really clear that Satanic Ritual Abuse is a fantasy and represents a Moral Panic.  It's unfortunate that Elder Pace was pursuaded by the testimony of folks who I'm sure meant well, but nevertheless were absolutely wrong.

 

SRA claims are based on recovered memories for the most part.  So anyone who wants to believe in SRA, must also accept that aliens are abducting rural Americans.

 

ETA:  Scott beat me to it.

Edited June 17, 2015 by sethpayne

[sethpayne]

This looks like a vestige of the now widely discredited moral panic of the 1980s and 1990s.

 

This panic has been linked to dissociative identity disorder (multiple personality disorder) and false memory syndrome.

 

It strikes me as a highly pernicious phenomenon in that it can ruin -- or at least put a cloud on -- the reputations of innocent people, often after they have died and are thus not around to defend themselves.

 

I've often wondered if this or something like it is at the root of Martha Nibley Beck's bizarre allegations against her father.

 

What I want to know is how any serious thinking person can take Beck's book seriously.  It is pure nonsense top to bottom.  And as I mentioned before, if we accept Beck's accusations against the good name of her father, we must also accept that aliens are real and abduct people.

[Scott Lloyd]

Let's just be really clear that Satanic Ritual Abuse is a fantasy and represents a Moral Panic.  It's unfortunate that Elder Pace was pursuaded by the testimony of folks who I'm sure meant well, but nevertheless were absolutely wrong.

 

SRA claims are based on recovered memories for the most part.  So anyone who wants to believe in SRA, must also accept that aliens are abducting rural Americans.

 

ETA:  Scott beat me to it.

Thanks just the same for the affirmation.

[Rain]

Call me lost. Could someone please give a summary of just what this is about please?

[sethpayne]

Call me lost. Could someone please give a summary of just what this is about please?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pace_memorandum

[Buckeye]

Responding to the OP, the term "Boise Rescue" seems to be a creation of the bloggernacle, not church leaders. It's based on the phrase "Swedish Rescue" which is the name given to a 2012 meeting where Elders Marlin K. Jensen and Richard Turley were sent to dialogue with saints about historical issues and concerns. The Boise event was a multi-stake meeting held near Boise in which Elders Oaks and Turley did much of the same. The prime difference seems to be that the Boise event was more directed to Snufferism, which apparently has taken some hold there.

 

You can find more discussion, and a recording of the entire event, at Mormon Stories: http://mormonstories.org/boise-rescue-oaks-turley/

[Buckeye]

On a related note (to the Swedish Rescue), Elder Holland recently presided at a meeting for stakes in Northern Europe. (see http://www.mormonnewsroom.org.uk/article/elder-jeffrey-r-holland-to-preside-at-the-june-7th-multi-stake-conference-). One of the other speakers was a Sister Olsson, who Elder Holland described as being the daughter of Hans and Birgitte Mattson (see http://www.wheatandtares.org/17569/europe-area-conference-broadcast-summary-and-comments/). Very interesting stuff.

[rockpond]

Responding to the OP, the term "Boise Rescue" seems to be a creation of the bloggernacle, not church leaders. It's based on the phrase "Swedish Rescue" which is the name given to a 2012 meeting where Elders Marlin K. Jensen and Richard Turley were sent to dialogue with saints about historical issues and concerns. The Boise event was a multi-stake meeting held near Boise in which Elders Oaks and Turley did much of the same. The prime difference seems to be that the Boise event was more directed to Snufferism, which apparently has taken some hold there.

 

You can find more discussion, and a recording of the entire event, at Mormon Stories: http://mormonstories.org/boise-rescue-oaks-turley/

 

I listened to the recording of the meeting.  They do seem to spend a lot of time focusing on "false prophets" and making appeals to the authority of the 15.  I heard that one of the three stakes that being addressed was the stake from which Adrian Larsen ("To The Remnant" blog) was excommunicated.  I don't know much about him but doesn't he have some of the same ideas as Denver Snuffer?

[cinepro]

Satanic Ritual Abuse is an old bit of mass hysteria with almost no basis in fact. Satanists exist to troll Christians, they don't tend to murder virgins or anything like that. 

Sadly, the "mass hysteria" of the 1980s around "Satanic Ritual Abuse" also spread to claims of sexual molestation.  Many lives were ruined as innocent people were accused and sent to prison based on the spurious evidence.

 

 

The seeds of the panic were planted with the 1980 publication of Michelle Remembers, the best-selling account of a Canadian psychotherapist’s work with a woman named Michelle Smith, who, under his care, began recalling forgotten memories of horrific childhood sexual abuse at the hands of her mother and others who were part of a devil-worshipping cult. The book, though riddled with fantastical claims (for example, Jesus, the Virgin Mary, and the Archangel Michael healed Smith’s physical scars), launched a cottage industry in recovering memories of satanic ritual abuse. (The psychotherapist and Smith later married.)

 

The panic began in earnest with the McMartin Preschool trial, an investigation that began 30 years ago. The owners of a California preschool and several teachers were accused of molesting a 2½-year-old boy; before it was over, hundreds of children, usually after lengthy sessions with coercive therapists, came forward to say that they, too, had been taken to a church to watch the beheading of a baby, then forced to drink its blood or flown by plane to random cities for sexual abuse, or countless other bizarre stories.

 

While that investigation and trial unfolded, other cases surfaced. Media poured attention on the claims, which made great fodder for a newly created 24-hour news cycle (CNN Headline News launched in 1982). As televangelists prayed for deliverance from Satan’s scourge, talk show “experts” claimed that every imaginable form of abuse was happening on a massive scale in America and that networks of Satanists had infiltrated schools, the police, and local government. Geraldo Rivera claimed in a televised 1987 special report that more than a million Satanists were plying their evil trade in America right at the very moment. (He has since apologized.) In 1989, Oprah Winfrey interviewed Michelle Smith and another woman who claimed to have recovered memories of being abused by a satanic cult; Sally Jesse Raphael, not to be outdone, ran two shows on the subject. In 1990, Don’t Make Me Go Back, Mommy: A Child’s Book About Satanic Ritual Abuse, a children’s picture book featuring colored-pencil drawings of children being abused in satanic rituals, appeared in libraries and therapists’ offices. In 1992, folk singer Joan Baez released “Play Me Backwards,” a song in the voice of a victim of satanic ritual abuse who was forced to witness the sacrifice of a baby and is now recollecting her repressed memories.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As with previous panics, the dangers may have been imaginary, but the consequences were not. The real toll of the satanic ritual abuse panic was on the children dragged into it and accused people like the Kellers, who numbered in the hundreds by the end of the decade. (In 1993, a survey by the American Bar Association Center on Children and the Law found that 26 percent of prosecutors reported handling at least one case with elements of alleged ritual abuse.)

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/01/fran_and_dan_keller_freed_two_of_the_last_victims_of_satanic_ritual_abuse.html

 

Edited June 18, 2015 by cinepro

[Buckeye]

I listened to the recording of the meeting.  They do seem to spend a lot of time focusing on "false prophets" and making appeals to the authority of the 15.  I heard that one of the three stakes that being addressed was the stake from which Adrian Larsen ("To The Remnant" blog) was excommunicated.  I don't know much about him but doesn't he have some of the same ideas as Denver Snuffer?

 

I have no personal knowledge of any of these individuals.

 

Adrian Larsen's blog states that he is from Meridian, ID, one of the stakes involved in the Boise Rescue. (See https://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609) His blog also suggests that he is a follower of Snuffer. See http://www.totheremnant.com/2015_05_01_archive.html ("Joseph Smith was a true messenger. How carefully and thoroughly are you searching into and heeding his message? Denver Snuffer is a true messenger. How carefully and thoroughly are you searching into and heeding his message today? )

[Buckeye]

Sadly, the "mass hysteria" of the 1980s around "Satanic Ritual Abuse" also spread to claims of sexual molestation.  Many lives were ruined as innocent people were accused and sent to prison based. 

 

Wait a minute. I thought the world has gotten more wicked in the past few decades. At least that's what everyone tells me in gospel doctrine. But if there were millions of molesting satanists in the 1980s, and today there are effectively none, that sounds more like a move towards 4 Nephi than towards the last days.

 

Oh, wait another minute. I remember now. It's the gays. It's always the gays. In the 1980s, SSM was considered ridiculous. Now its mainstream. Man how I pine for those good-old fashion baby-killing, millions of satanist, garbage pail kids, candy cigarettes for halloween, saturday's warrior days.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Buckeye

[Scott Lloyd]

Responding to the OP, the term "Boise Rescue" seems to be a creation of the bloggernacle, not church leaders. It's based on the phrase "Swedish Rescue" which is the name given to a 2012 meeting where Elders Marlin K. Jensen and Richard Turley were sent to dialogue with saints about historical issues and concerns. The Boise event was a multi-stake meeting held near Boise in which Elders Oaks and Turley did much of the same. The prime difference seems to be that the Boise event was more directed to Snufferism, which apparently has taken some hold there.

 

You can find more discussion, and a recording of the entire event, at Mormon Stories: http://mormonstories.org/boise-rescue-oaks-turley/

Don't want to listen to the podcast, and I can't see anything by way of commentary other than cynical jabs about "appeal to authority" and "circular reasoning," so I'll ask: Was this one more successful than the "Swedish Recsue," where, from what I could tell from the bootleg recording, attendees were not disposed to be persuaded, assured or even to listen.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[rockpond]

I have no personal knowledge of any of these individuals.

 

Adrian Larsen's blog states that he is from Meridian, ID, one of the stakes involved in the Boise Rescue. (See https://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609) His blog also suggests that he is a follower of Snuffer. See http://www.totheremnant.com/2015_05_01_archive.html ("Joseph Smith was a true messenger. How carefully and thoroughly are you searching into and heeding his message? Denver Snuffer is a true messenger. How carefully and thoroughly are you searching into and heeding his message today? )

 

The content of Elder Oaks' and Elder Turley's messages makes sense given that background.  The nickname "Boise Rescue" also makes sense if Larsen and Snuffer have had an influence over members there.

[Buckeye]

Don't want to listen to the podcast, and I can't see anything by way of commentary other than cynical jabs about "appeal to authority" and "circular reasoning," so I'll ask: Was this one more successful than the "Swedish Recsue," where, from what I could tell from the bootleg recording, attendees were not disposed to be persuaded, assured or even to listen.

 

I haven't listened to the recording either (other than to scan it to see if it was legit). If nothing else, I can report that the bootleg of the Boise Rescue is much better quality than the bootleg of the Swedish Rescue. Whether the dialgue is more effective will probably take some time and, even then, is open to so many variables I doubt you could compare the two on any kind of "success ratio." If anyone has an answer, it would be Elder Turley, who to my knowledge is the only common participate in both "rescues."

[rockpond]

Don't want to listen to the podcast, and I can't see anything by way of commentary other than cynical jabs about "appeal to authority" and "circular reasoning," so I'll ask: Was this one more successful than the "Swedish Recsue," where, from what I could tell from the bootleg recording, attendees were not disposed to be persuaded, assured or even to listen.

 

Unless something happened on the recording after their concluding remarks that I missed, there is no Q&A or indication of how the audience reacted to the messages.

 

Since I know you prefer reading to listening, you might be interested in "Anonymous Bishop's" summary of Elder Oaks' and Elder Turley's messages:  http://anonymousbishop.com/2015/06/15/the-boise-rescue/

 

Granted he has his own bias but the bold parts of his bullet points are fairly accurate in representing the major points made by Oaks/Turley (the non-bold stuff is Anonymous Bishop's commentary which you'll probably want to skip).

[Scott Lloyd]

I haven't listened to the recording either (other than to scan it to see if it was legit). If nothing else, I can report that the bootleg of the Boise Rescue is much better quality than the bootleg of the Swedish Rescue. Whether the dialgue is more effective will probably take some time and, even then, is open to so many variables I doubt you could compare the two on any kind of "success ratio." If anyone has an answer, it would be Elder Turley, who to my knowledge is the only common participate in both "rescues."

Thank you.

[stemelbow]

Having SRA, DID, and recovered memories experienced in my family helps me conclude that "falsehood of the blackest dye" has no better application.

It all can be very destructive. The mere mention of said accusations makes me sad and upset.

[ERayR]

Unless something happened on the recording after their concluding remarks that I missed, there is no Q&A or indication of how the audience reacted to the messages.

 

Since I know you prefer reading to listening, you might be interested in "Anonymous Bishop's" summary of Elder Oaks' and Elder Turley's messages:  http://anonymousbishop.com/2015/06/15/the-boise-rescue/

 

Granted he has his own bias but the bold parts of his bullet points are fairly accurate in representing the major points made by Oaks/Turley (the non-bold stuff is Anonymous Bishop's commentary which you'll probably want to skip).

 

I find "Anonymous Bishop's" comments to sound like something coming from a disgruntled ex-Mormon.

[rockpond]

I find "Anonymous Bishop's" comments to sound like something coming from a disgruntled ex-Mormon.

 

Well, then the same advice applies to you... read only the bolded bullets in his summary and ignore his (non-bolded text) commentary.