DBMormon Posted May 29, 2015 Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) Van Waggoner in his book on Sarah Pratt "Sarah Pratt Shaping Of An Apostate" says that Sidney Rigdon in the 18 Jun 1845 "Messenger and Advocate" quotes Parley Pratt saying ""We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so." The problem is the LDS church is NOT printing the Messenger and Advocate at this time. Rigdon does start his own edition of the Messenger and Advocate in Pittsburgh PA and it is running at this time but there is no 18 June 1845 issue. Also it is obviously not directly connected to the church as Rigdon has his own breakoff faith at this time. Anyone know the real source for this quote beyond the dead ends I mentioned and the works that use the dead end as a source? Edited May 29, 2015 by DBMormon
cinepro Posted May 29, 2015 Posted May 29, 2015 Interesting. The Rigdon Messenger and Advocate publications are here: http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/RigWrit/M&A/MA-1844.htm#pagetop A quick search didn't turn up the quote. And as I've sure you've seen, a Google search references several websites who give the same citation as Von Wagoner (probably based on his article and book).
JLHPROF Posted May 29, 2015 Posted May 29, 2015 Interesting. The Rigdon Messenger and Advocate publications are here: http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/RigWrit/M&A/MA-1844.htm#pagetop A quick search didn't turn up the quote. And as I've sure you've seen, a Google search references several websites who give the same citation as Von Wagoner (probably based on his article and book). There is an edition of the Nauvoo Neighbor with that exact date but the quote is not in there either.
DBMormon Posted May 29, 2015 Author Posted May 29, 2015 Seems like smoke and mirrors with no real quote in existence
Nevo Posted May 29, 2015 Posted May 29, 2015 Anyone know the real source for this quote beyond the dead ends I mentioned and the works that use the dead end as a source? The source is the Messenger and Advocate (Pittsburgh, PA), 15 June 1845, p. 234. You can download it from the Signature Books Library website. 3
cinepro Posted May 29, 2015 Posted May 29, 2015 The source is the Messenger and Advocate (Pittsburgh, PA), 15 June 1845, p. 234. You can download it from the Signature Books Library website. And there it is: 4
Popular Post CV75 Posted May 29, 2015 Popular Post Posted May 29, 2015 Van Waggoner in his book on Sarah Pratt "Sarah Pratt Shaping Of An Apostate" says that Sidney Rigdon in the 18 Jun 1845 "Messenger and Advocate" quotes Parley Pratt saying ""We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so." The problem is the LDS church is NOT printing the Messenger and Advocate at this time. Rigdon does start his own edition of the Messenger and Advocate in Pittsburgh PA and it is running at this time but there is no 18 June 1845 issue. Also it is obviously not directly connected to the church as Rigdon has his own breakoff faith at this time. Anyone know the real source for this quote beyond the dead ends I mentioned and the works that use the dead end as a source?I’ll have to find it later, but the quote is from Pomeran Thucker’s journal, which refers to Mr. Smith, Sr.’s cake and beer shop (gingerbread, pies, boiled eggs, root-beer). It was here stick-pulling contests were held, ostensibly to draw business. To make things more exciting, especially at fair time, Joseph, Jr. innovated a team version of the contest where teammates would lie down on the ground to support the back and sides of the lead stick-puller. Joseph was well-known for winning these contests, and in explaining the game to new teammates, Parley said, "We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so." Now the great controversy is not so much over the source of the quote, but its application. Some insist that Parley was trying to get people to play the game to support Joseph, Sr. and the store, not to recruit players. 8
DBMormon Posted May 29, 2015 Author Posted May 29, 2015 I’ll have to find it later, but the quote is from Pomeran Thucker’s journal, which refers to Mr. Smith, Sr.’s cake and beer shop (gingerbread, pies, boiled eggs, root-beer). It was here stick-pulling contests were held, ostensibly to draw business. To make things more exciting, especially at fair time, Joseph, Jr. innovated a team version of the contest where teammates would lie down on the ground to support the back and sides of the lead stick-puller. Joseph was well-known for winning these contests, and in explaining the game to new teammates, Parley said, "We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so." Now the great controversy is not so much over the source of the quote, but its application. Some insist that Parley was trying to get people to play the game to support Joseph, Sr. and the store, not to recruit players.YOUR HILARIOUS.... THIS WAS WELL THOUGHT OUT AND VERY FUNNY TO THE KEEN OBSERVER
CV75 Posted May 29, 2015 Posted May 29, 2015 Do you mean Pomeroy Tucker?LOL I changed the name to protect the innocent! Will the real Portnoy Thatcher please stand up?
Damien the Leper Posted May 29, 2015 Posted May 29, 2015 I’ll have to find it later, but the quote is from Pomeran Thucker’s journal, which refers to Mr. Smith, Sr.’s cake and beer shop (gingerbread, pies, boiled eggs, root-beer). It was here stick-pulling contests were held, ostensibly to draw business. To make things more exciting, especially at fair time, Joseph, Jr. innovated a team version of the contest where teammates would lie down on the ground to support the back and sides of the lead stick-puller. Joseph was well-known for winning these contests, and in explaining the game to new teammates, Parley said, "We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so." Now the great controversy is not so much over the source of the quote, but its application. Some insist that Parley was trying to get people to play the game to support Joseph, Sr. and the store, not to recruit players.Points for creativity.
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