Zakuska Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Anakin7, I'm solely responsible for what I believe based upon the Biblical text (I have a Greek Interlinear to look up the Greek text with the English terms directly under as translated from the Greek). I've heard sufficiently how others represent their beliefs in which I'm not responsible for in that they don't directly represent what I would say concerning these topics often discussed here in what Elder McConkie represented to a Mormon BYU audience back in 1984. As a Christian, of the Lutheran, Missouri Synod, I would like for you to go to LCMS.org and demonstrate that (the red terms used by Elder McConkie that I quoted) what he said is what is taught there. From a post of yours from ZLMB (1/04/09): I would show it this way: This is not a denial of having good works and would affirm obedience to the commands of God in response to the message read/preached from the word of God (given the ability to hear the Gospel by God the Holy Spirit). The brackets above is the Lutheran position concerning our Justification "before God" (Romans 4:2) and is not the faith alone of James 2.Fundamental misreading of Romans 4:2 because Paul gives it the exact opposite meaning when he says: "but not before God" If Abrahama could boast "but not before God" the only other place he could be boasting is "before man" So Romans 4:2 is showing how to be justtified "before man" not "Before God" as you claim. Being "Just before God" is having an abundance of Good works (Fruit, meat for Repentance). The only difference between the "Just" and "Unjust" in Gods eyes is their works. Edited July 22, 2015 by Zakuska 2
Anakin7 Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 Zakuska my Fellow LDS Kryptonian Jedi Saint welcome back. Great observation of coolrok7 misreading and misunderstanding of Romans 4:2. Our Heavenly Father,Jesus Christ,Holy Ghost/Spirit look at our True Hearts/Minds and Justify us on our actions that acompany our Hearts/Minds Thoughts/Feelings. True Grace is needed by way of True Faith. Washing My Robes In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 Your inviting me implies that I haven't done so already. Your version is not the standard and neither is mine unless it accurately portrays the Biblical teaching.Whenever an individual states a Church teaching and is inaccurate in what they present, Mormon General Authorities let it be known. Such is the case of Elder McConkie when it came to a Eugene England in a private (which became public) letter of correction in which he states that individual members along with the faculty members at BYU are not the ones to determine what church teaching is.He in what I quoted was inaccurate in how he represented in a generic way the "evangelical body of Protestantism". . . And what is actually taught vs what an individual would say. He does not accurately represent what is taught which is the point I'm insisting on here.
Anakin7 Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Once again he was refering to the evangelical protestantism of easy believism that was rampant in his day as the example he gave about the invitation given him on his car radio. If you really read his talk you would read he did give Martin Luther some positive PR. One must be invited [not predestined] to accept True Grace [The Biblical one]by way of True Faith [Theb Biblical one ]. And as I have stated before and again that the gospel presentations that were/are/and will be are a easy believism with no cost to the individual have happened are happening will continue to happen. So please no more OCB on this. You are beating a dead something on this issue. Washing My Robes In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited July 22, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) True Christian Biblical Faith [pistis] is a work/labor - not a self rightious or self centered action but one centered on Jesus Christ. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited July 22, 2015 by Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) It is not easy believing and grace is not cheap unless you consider the blood of Jesus not worth very much.Faith is how we are to receive the free gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast!The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life. Not earnef, merited,or worked for. Works follow them that believe.Sanctification follows Justification wherein one is set apart for works of service after one has come to faith, a work of the Holy Spirit. Edited July 23, 2015 by coolrok7
Anakin7 Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Coolrok7 yes it is true that believing is not easy in the world but with Christ Jesus it is awesomely possible. True Grace is not cheap we must accept/access/activate/grab hold of, obtain recieve it by True Faith - pistis = Allegience/Commitment/Confidence/Devotion/Discipleship/Faithfulness/Fidelity/Loyalty/Obedience/Trust [Just a few references to the anchient heavenly/temporal middle eastern meanings - not 16th century protestantism meanings] to The Person and Work of Christ Jesus - not any mosaic torah laws or self rightious self centered boasting in anyones head/heart or on any one's lips. Yes works follow them that truly believe but many fall away. We must be worthy. But accoording to you and Lutheranism it's all "predestined", so your next posts are all predestined as was all your past posts. We are commanded/invited to accept Jesus Christ Awesome Atoning Blood Sacrifice on our behalf, we must come to him in true faith [ a gift given us but must be opened and used by us ] and belief [ Same root greek word for True Faith ] with True Repentance - a broken heart and contrite spirit and listed/read to his words - all mental/physical actions to show our worthyness to recieve his Gift of Eternal Life to us. Thank you for reminding me why I remain LDS. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) coolrok7 - John 6:29 [NIV] - The work of God is this : to believe in the one he has sent. NIV note - work of God. Believing in Jesus Christ is the indispensable "work" God calls for - the one that leads to eternal life. So according to my NIV Bible "believe" [and I would add faith since each come from the same greek root word] is a work to show our worthiness to come to him. Are the NIV notes wrong on this point ?. If so do you have that authority to recall all NIV bibles throughout the world from Christian bookstores and homes and contact the individuals who put that footnote in and have them remove it ?. If you can and do so I will give you my Pomona High school Cap [Like Martin Luther offerering his scholastic hat to anyone who could reconcile Rom 3:28 with James 2:14-26. May you recieve True Grace accessed,accepted,activated by True Faith. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited July 24, 2015 by Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 No but you're point isn't right and is not Scripture
Anakin7 Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) So John 6:29 is not scripture ?. And the individuals who put in the footnote are non Christian heretics ?. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited July 24, 2015 by Anakin7
Vance Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 It is not easy believing and grace is not cheap unless you consider the blood of Jesus not worth very much.It is not us who believe in cheap grace. It is those that believe that they need not obey God's commandments. Faith is how we are to receive the free gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast! Those that are truly obedient to God and do his works don't boast about it. How ever, I have seen it often where those that believe in cheap grace do boast about being saved. The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life.True. So? Not earnef, merited,or worked for.You should spend more time in the red letter portion of the New Testament. Jesus disagrees with you. Works follow them that believe.And yet the scripture say that the devils believe. Where are their works? (Do I need to post the reference?)Sanctification follows Justification . . . This part it true.wherein one is set apart for works of service after one has come to faith, a work of the Holy Spirit.That part is false. Faith without works is dead. The works don't come after faith, they come with faith. A God who has no requirements is the exact same as a non-existent God.
Anakin7 Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Reference to a similarity between The Protestant Daddy/Father of the Reformation - Martin Luther and The Prophet Joseph Smith by a LDS Kryptonian Saint - http://www.14lds.com/luther.htm . In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited July 24, 2015 by Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 Anakin7, John 6:29 is Scripture, your point and footnotes aren't.Vance as always you twist the Bible and what I say as a matter of faith. James' faith without works is not the "Faith Alone" of the Reformation. Read what Anakin7 linked (which Joseph Smith diametrically opposes what Luther taught concerning God/Salvation)
rodheadlee Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 Hey Coolrok7 were you going to answer Stormriders question way back at post 826, pg 42? Or did I miss it?
mfbukowski Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 Yes, I know, deflationary theory says an experience that transcends language and concept is impossibleFYI, that is the direct opposite of what the consequences of the deflationary theory imply.
Anakin7 Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) My footnotes were from my NIV Bible on John 6:29 not my own statements but from Professors/Scholars of The World of Evangelicalism in the neighborhood were you reside. Some slight observations were mine in my comments. But It still stands. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited July 24, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) An observation of True Biblical Accepting/Accessing/Activating Grabing Hold of Obtaining True Grace by way of True Biblical Faith from one non LDS Christian in which True LDS would agree with - https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/190-perversion-of-biblical-faith-a In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited July 24, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Remenber coolrok The Rightious Shall live by True Faith - https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1459 In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited July 24, 2015 by Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) 1 John 5:13, 2 Timothy 1:8-9, John 5:24 Edited July 25, 2015 by coolrok7
coolrok7 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 Stick with what the Scripture (the Bible) teaches, I don't need links to what others say.
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) Stick with what the Scripture (the Bible) teaches, I don't need links to what others say. Edited July 25, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian
Anakin7 Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) Double standard, you want us to not use other non LDS Christian outside our Faith that agree with us on the Holy Scriptures on True Faith Christian Subjects/Topics in response to you yet you want us to accept your house [ Lutheran along with the book of Concord] interpetation of Holy Writ, Hummmmm ?. Links to continue that suport us on True Gospel Subjects/Topics. The Skeptic Christian thanks for the link.In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited July 26, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) coolrok7 material from your older Catholic Brother on merit in the Holy Bible - http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/merit.html In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited July 26, 2015 by Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Scripture is older than he is. That is their interpretation. It always boils down to interpretation at critical points. We do not merit eternal life, it is a gift (Paul's argument) but works are a testimony of the one who claims to have faith, which is James' argument and is mine as well. You're misrepresenting my position on this matter..
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