stephenpurdy Posted September 26, 2015 Posted September 26, 2015 Ok. In a nut shell your argument is that I can't believe what I believe, because you believe what I believe is impossible. You telling me that my belief is contradictory is like me telling the LDS what they believe... and just to let you know, the LDS hate that! So why do it to me? You can believe something that is illogical and fallacious if you want. I just wanted you to at least attempt to follow the logical ramifications of your belief. You refuse to watch and address the points made in the videos and the post 22 on the other thread... so, I guess that conversation is over. -stephen
Anakin7 Posted September 27, 2015 Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) coolrok7 They [The Evangelical Christians from various Churches] have not been there for some time now. What do you mean that I disagree with there message ?. I praise them for coming out to talk to people about Jesus Christ and how he has redeemed them from there sins [ I agree with this contrary to your misrepresentation of my observations ]. However no telling them about the cost to them in regard to accepting Him [Jesus Christ and His Awesome sacrifice on there behalf is to me not The Complete Gospel but a good part of it]. I see there message much as John The Baptist was preparing those to accept Jesus Christ as there Messiah and Savior/Lord. May True Grace Be with you and those you love. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited September 27, 2015 by Anakin7
danielwoods Posted September 27, 2015 Posted September 27, 2015 You can believe something that is illogical and fallacious if you want.I just wanted you to at least attempt to follow the logical ramifications of your belief.You refuse to watch and address the points made in the videos and the post 22 on the other thread... so, I guess that conversation is over.-stephenIt was over long ago after I watched all your videos and you refused to acknowledge that you were basing your assumptions on your faith. Not logic.
Vance Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 . . . you refused to acknowledge that you were basing your assumptions on your faith. Not logic.Oh the irony!
coolrok7 Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 You argue here that Protestants are wrong in their presentation of the Gospel message which is Christ in us, our only hope in the context of salvation (not of works which we have done but by grace through faith, lest any man should boast.Mormonism does not teach this, it teaches exaltation is merited, salvation is only resurrection from the dead which is not the Biblical teaching and not the Biblical Gospel.
Anakin7 Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) coolrok7 we LDS do not believe/teach that Jesus Christ [The "Biblical Jesus Christ] is not necessary to be in us in our Gospel presentation and is not our only Hope of True Salvation ?, it is not True Christlike behaviour posts like this from you that shakes my Heart/Head in disbelief. No personal self Rightious works of the Law of Moses [And of the individual] that get us to the True Kingdom but Accepting/Accessing/Activating/Grabbing hold of/Obtaining True Grace by way of True Faith - pistis by way of Covenant which the Awesome Apostle Paul preached. Works [Those True works Born out of True Belief/Faith in Christ Jesus To Glorify God and His Son] are necessary for Salvation [The True Form/Model of] but they do not cause salvation [True Grace Does That !] for Faith alone gives life [ To Grace that Saves us !]- Martin Luther [bracketed statements are my commentary]. Why do you not coolrok read and post scriptures like 2 Nephi 2: 3-10 ?. Its not Christlike to bare false witness against another. The just shall live by Faith [ the True one] pistis in its anchient semetic world - Allegience/Commitment/Confidence/Devotion/Disciplship/Faithfulness/Fidelity/Loyalty/Obedience/Trust and in this scriptural context it is directed to the person and work of The Lord of Life/Lord/Redeemer/Savior/God/King/Master Christ Jesus. Please no more busybodying/pratter statements they are unbecoming of one who claims Christ Jesus as there Lord/Master. May True Grace be with you this day and with those you Love. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited September 28, 2015 by Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 What does "not of works" in context mean?
coolrok7 Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 It is also not unloving to speak the truth!
Anakin7 Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Personal self rightious works to glorify ones self. Your version of the truth of our True belief is not true. So it is still unloving. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited September 28, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Cmparisons of Martin Luther and Joseph Smith on Salvation - http://www.14lds.com/luther.htm In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited September 28, 2015 by Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 I'm not talking about self righteous works but the works one does in faith as the result of having faith in the truth of God's Word in the Bible.
coolrok7 Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 It's not "my version" version but what is taught in Mormon publications offered to the general public.
Flyonthewall Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 You argue here that Protestants are wrong in their presentation of the Gospel message which is Christ in us, our only hope in the context of salvation (not of works which we have done but by grace through faith, lest any man should boast. Mormonism does not teach thisThis is false. it teaches exaltation is merited,This is a half truth salvation is only resurrection from the deadThis is flat out wrong. which is not the Biblical teaching and not the Biblical Gospel.You have been corrected enough times to know better. Here is a link that should educate you. https://www.lds.org/ensign/1981/04/salvation-by-grace-or-by-works?lang=eng 1
Flyonthewall Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 What does "not of works" in context mean?“So Paul taught these people—who thought that they could be saved by some power that was within them, or by observing the law of Moses—he pointed out to them the fact that if it were not for the mission of Jesus Christ, if it were not for this great atoning sacrifice, they could not be redeemed. And therefore it was by the grace of God that they are saved, not by any work on their part, for they were absolutely helpless. Paul was absolutely right. “And on the other hand, James taught just as the Lord taught, just as Paul had taught in other scripture, that it is our duty, of necessity, to labor, to strive in diligence, and faith, keeping the commandments of the Lord, if we would obtain that inheritance which is promised to the faithful. …
Flyonthewall Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 It's not "my version" version but what is taught in Mormon publications offered to the general public.They most certainly are your versions because you pull snippetts out of the whole, and try to pass them off as the whole. We keep telling you that is wrong, but you are not open to correction. You have made up your mind what our teachings are yet what you put forth shows you have no idea. 2
Anakin7 Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 coolrok7 I agree with your post #1011 if you understand the anchient semetic middle eastern meaning of "Faith". In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Vance Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 What does "not of works" in context mean?Not of works of the law of Moses. Paul's whole argument is against the "Judaizers" who were claiming that salvation could come through doing the works of the law of Moses. Their argument, in part, was that the works of the law of Moses was bringing salvation long before the gospel (or as Paul sometimes says, "faith" or "grace") of Jesus Christ came. He explains that this is in error because the Gospel was accepted by Abraham and was taught to the children of Israel by Moses. So, it was the Gospel of Christ that came first and it is obedience to the gospel of Christ that brings salvation.
Vance Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 It is also not unloving to speak the truth!Then why don't you do that? 1
Vance Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 I'm not talking about self righteous works but the works one does in faith as the result of having faith in the truth of God's Word in the Bible.Why limit it to just the portion of God's word that is in the Bible?
Vance Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Rom. 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; Gal. 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Gal. 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? • • •5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? • • •10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. If Paul is not talking about the law of Moses, then what law is he talking about? Act 13:16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience. • • •38 ¶ Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Edited September 29, 2015 by Vance 1
Anakin7 Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Great post Vance, and how about Paul the author of Hebrews - in 5:9 - He became the author of eternal salvation unto all that obey him. Notice that Paul states here that He [Jesus Christ] became [ a moment in time for any/all individuals] the author [The one who brings about] of eternal salvation [ the greatist gift one can recieve] unto all [open to anyone] who obey Him[something we do out of Love and respect for Jesus Christ]. So the free gift is conditioned on our Love/Faith/Covenent/Of Obedience to his [Jesus Christ] calls and commands. Same can be said for Ephesians 2:8-9. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited September 29, 2015 by Anakin7 1
coolrok7 Posted September 30, 2015 Posted September 30, 2015 I based my comments in part on the following:"By revelation, our Savior made known again the plan of salvation and exaltation. Resurrection comes as a gift to every man through Jesus Christ, but the reward of the highest eternal opportunities you must earn. It is not just enough to believe in Jesus Christ. You must work and learn, search and pray, repent and live them." (YOUR PRE-EARTH LIFE pamphlet, p.10)"You May Earn Salvation through Christ" (The Purpose of Life pamphlet, p.4)
Anakin7 Posted September 30, 2015 Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) And how are you reading that ?. Highest opportunities to recieve Grace degrees of glory to be shown by worthiness and earning the right to stay in True Grace by way of True Faith. You Earn/show your worthiness by obedience to grab hold of/obtain/stay in True Grace. Hebrews 5:9 = Obedience from the Heart. But you also ignor the myriad of scriptures that show True Salvation is Free we have shown you - #1 example 2 Nephi 2:4. As Brigham Young once stated [ I am going from memory here] If any Prophet/Apostle Church Authority makes any statement that is not in accord with the Holy scriptures you can reject it. So once again you are not getting it, try again. No mental antinomianism [ Unless one is physicaly unable to perform the labors of Love for the Savior there mental willigness carries them to that glorious state]. Eternal Life is a unmerited Gift but one must obtain it by way of True Faith and Repentance which are spiritual sacrifices. Salvation Is Absolutly Free ButIt Costs You Your Very Life In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited September 30, 2015 by Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted September 30, 2015 Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) If salvation (eternal life not eternal punishment) is free (it is, being a gift), than why does exaltation have to be earned, merited, or worked for in Mormonism?You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Galatians 5:4) Edited September 30, 2015 by coolrok7
pogi Posted September 30, 2015 Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) If salvation (eternal life not eternal punishment) is free (it is, being a gift), than why does exaltation have to be earned, merited, or worked for in Mormonism?You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Galatians 5:4) My donation, or gifts, to charity are determined by the by the good deeds of that organization. They may not earn, or merit my gift, but my gift was indeed influenced by their works. It is the same with God from my perspective. Edited September 30, 2015 by pogi
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