Vance Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 Is it not "written" that "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God"? Just sayin'That is from the red letter portion of the Bible. That is the portion that Modern American Protestant Evangelical anti-Mormons STUDIOUSLY ignore. 1
Vance Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 Joseph’s rejection of the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith continues on to this day. In doing so Joseph arrived at a conclusion not in accordance with the counsel of Biblical Scripture:Humm, this just goes to show that you don't know what you are talking about. 1) We have already demonstrated that your definition of Grace is false. 2) We have already demonstrated that the works Paul condemns are the works of the law of Moses, not righteous works of the law of Christ. 3) Joseph didn't reject the doctrine of salvation by grace. 2 Ne 2:8 Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise. 2 Ne 10:24 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved. 2 Ne 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. Moro 10:32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God. 33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot. So, please show how these doctrines are "not in accordance with the counsel of Biblical Scripture". 1
Anakin7 Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Great responses to coolrok7 Vance and Flyonthewall, coolrok never responded in post # 979 to the link to the Awesome paper by John Gee - " The Grace Of Christ" that shows The True Grace of Christ in True LDS Teaching/Thought/Practice is the True Biblical Grace not Reformation Grace. He still gets it wrong. Lets give him another chance. coolrok no problems with your what you see as "Humor" but just being serious to your polemics in the post before that. Obtain True Grace by way of True Faith. My other links respond to your polemics as well. By the way I saw my Calvery Chapel Friend "Paul" last night along with his group from Calvery Chapel witnessing to individuals, We spoke for a short period, he admitted he has problems with LDS True Teachings but that there will be LDS in Heaven despite Mormonism. His witnessing is different from others I have see wheras he builds a relationship beforehand prays for individuals to have the spirit touch them to repent and give there lives to Jesus. He raps in song to certain individuals as well. We have a good relationship with one another. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited October 5, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Is this what you are looking for?http://publications.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/review/22/1/S00010-5176a159eeb0510Gee.pdf A repost -When will coolrok7 read this about the True Grace of Jesus Christ that True LDS Believe and have Faith to Accept/Access/Activate in respose to his polemic about us ?. He needs this True Grace. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited October 5, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 coolrok One must be Worthy of Jesus and Eternal Life according to scripture - http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/images/worthy-of-Jesus.pdf In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7Repost for coolrok7
Anakin7 Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 coolrok - scriptures God wants you to know about - http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/eternallife.htm In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7Repost for coolrok7
Anakin7 Posted October 6, 2015 Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) Great Article by Brother Gerald Lund - http://www.lds,org/ensign/1981/04/salvation-by-grace-or-by-works?lang=eng In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited October 6, 2015 by Anakin7
Flyonthewall Posted October 6, 2015 Posted October 6, 2015 Great Article by Brother Gerald Lund - http://www.lds,org/ensign/1981/04/salvation-by-grace-or-by-works?lang=eng In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7Your link points back to this discussion board but I believe it is the same article I linked to in post #1013. https://www.lds.org/ensign/1981/04/salvation-by-grace-or-by-works?lang=eng
Anakin7 Posted October 6, 2015 Posted October 6, 2015 Thanks Flyonthewall, weird that it links back to the Discussion Board. Oh well we have it again now, will coolrok read it along with our other link references that respond to his polemics against us ?. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted October 6, 2015 Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) Lachoneus, there are sixty-six books in the Biblical cannon.It is the Mormon view that there's are equally compatible with the Biblical cannon which non Mormons don"t, some almost two thousand years late to be considered as such. A view That I and many others don't accept as such which is why we don't agree. Edited October 6, 2015 by coolrok7
Anakin7 Posted October 6, 2015 Posted October 6, 2015 Not True coolrok 7 Roman Catholic and the other 7 families of The Orthodox Church have Books in there Canon that are not in the present Protestant Bibles. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 1
Vance Posted October 7, 2015 Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) It is the Mormon view that there's are equally compatible with the Biblical cannon which non Mormons don"t, some almost two thousand years late to be considered as such. Where in the Bible does it say that the canon of God's word is closed? Or that the Bible is all there is? Edited October 7, 2015 by Vance
Anakin7 Posted October 7, 2015 Posted October 7, 2015 I read in the Book How Wide The Divide a statement by Craig Blomberg that [ Going from memory here ] In practice the Bible/Canon is closed but in Theory The Bible/Canon is open. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted October 7, 2015 Posted October 7, 2015 None are included in Mormonism's standard works Anakin7.
Anakin7 Posted October 7, 2015 Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) True coolrok so your point Is ?. My point to you was you cannot claim that The Holy Bible [ Whatever Version in the world ] only has 66 Books/Rulers/Canons depending on it's location in the world. I suggest starting another thread with your polemic since this is off topic. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited October 7, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted October 7, 2015 Posted October 7, 2015 From my LDS Catacomb Archives - http://www.14lds.com/true.htm In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 The point being your own leaders only accept the sixty-six books of the Bible as part of their standard works so your point is a moot point, not mine.
Anakin7 Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Yes our leaders accept only 66 Bible Canons that are bound together along with other bound together scripture from anchient and modern times. The fact remains that there are other Christian churches who pre date Lutheram Missouri Synod who have more scripture in there bound Bible than you. No mootness. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Humm, this just goes to show that you don't know what you are talking about. 1) We have already demonstrated that your definition of Grace is false. 2) We have already demonstrated that the works Paul condemns are the works of the law of Moses, not righteous works of the law of Christ. 3) Joseph didn't reject the doctrine of salvation by grace. 2 Ne 2:8 Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise. 2 Ne 10:24 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved. 2 Ne 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. Moro 10:32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God. 33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot. So, please show how these doctrines are "not in accordance with the counsel of Biblical Scripture". Being my fist post on this forum, I would like to offer a cheery hello to Vance, and all. Also, being an Evangelical Christian, I have some questions concerning what grace means to a Mormon. But this is probably off-topic in this thread, so if someone will start a new thread "what is required of the LDS for salvation?" (since I'm a newbie and can't start threads yet) or point to an old thread that discusses LDS salvation, I would be more than happy to pose my questions there. TIA
Anakin7 Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) Go to www.LDS.org to find True LDS Teachings on True Grace. Do a google search for - "The Grace of Christ" by John Gee. http://www.publications.maxwellinstitute.buy.edu/publications/review/22/1/s00010-5176a159eeb0510Gee.pdf Not sure if the link works. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited October 8, 2015 by Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) They, the General Authorities don't accept as "Scripture" in their standard works when it comes to the Bible, these other writings you are appealing to. So the point I made is not moot. Edited October 8, 2015 by coolrok7
Anakin7 Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Okay. Do you accept them ?. Off to work or awhile. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Since the link I provided in post #1013 most likely has gone unread, I will supply a quote from it that addresses Coolrok's false accusations: I read it, but it's a clear misinterpretation of what the Bible teaches concerning faith, grace and salvation. The Bible clealy teaches that salvation is by grace, through faith in the atoning work of Jesus Christ, plus nothing. In fact, I might ask if you have repented for attempting to offer good works (filthy rags) to the Lord as righteous deeds? Isaiah 64:6 For we have all become as one who is unclean, and all our righteousness is as a polluted garment: and we all fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Go to www.LDS.org to find True LDS Teachings on True Grace. Do a google search for - "The Grace of Christ" by John Gee. http://www.publications.maxwellinstitute.buy.edu/publications/review/22/1/s00010-5176a159eeb0510Gee.pdf Not sure if the link works. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 (In the quad) Bible Dictionary P 697This Grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts.Divine Grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the fall of Adam and also because of man's weaknesses and shortcomings. However, Grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence, the explanation, "it is by grace we are saved, after all we can do." (2 Ne 25:23) It is truly the Grace of Jesus Christ that makes salvation possible. The definition appears to me to be an "if, then statement. IF you give your total best effort, THEN you can receive grace. So what does "total effort" involve anyway?
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Have You Been Saved? by Dallin H. Oaks Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1998/04/have-you-been-saved?lang=eng"And what is "all we can do?" It surely includes repentance (see Alma 24:11) and baptism, keeping the commandments, and enduring to the end. Moroni pleaded, “Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ” (Moro. 10:32)." What does one look like if he has "perfected himself" and denied himself of "all" ungodliness?
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