Anakin7 Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) BlahBlahBlah just to get you caught up to speed here, you are not the 1st evangelical christian to come in here to try and correct us regarding our True Salvation Soteriological Journey and Quest to The Kingdom of Heaven. Thousands of posts have been posted adinfinentum in response to our critics on this topic as well as a Legion of other topics relating to The Gospel of The Lord of Life/Lord/Redeemer/Savior/God/King/Master Jesus Christ. Did you read the Board rules before you entered here ?, this a Dialogue and Discussion Board not a come tell why we are wrong Board. If this is your intent then you may not last long here - just a Love shout out to you. I myself am a former evangelical christian [Methodist/Fundamentalist Independant Baptist]. What is the "All we can do in the Book of Mormon" 2 Nephi 25:23 ? [ Read in context not in isolation - read verses 23-28] , that is your 1st reading assignment. Then you need to read the BoM references again that Flyonthewall posted. Next are you once saved always saved ?, do you need to stay in True Grace ?. if so how ?, if not why ?. May True Grace be with you. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited October 8, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) BlahBlahBlah where in Moroni 10:32 does it say we "perfect ourselves" ?, it says to be perfected in "Him" - Christ Jesus !. And denying all ungodliness read Titus 2:11-15, Amen. What does one look like after they have made a decision to follow Jesus Christ to accept/access/activate/grab hold of /obtain True Grace [charis] by way of True Faith [pistis] and enduring to the end [Mark 13:13 ] ?, Justified Sanctified, Glorified. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited October 8, 2015 by Anakin7
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 BlahBlahBlah just to get you caught up to speed here, you are not the 1st evangelical christian to come in here to try and correct us regarding our True Salvation Soteriological Journey and Quest to The Kingdom of Heaven. Thousands of posts have been posted adinfinentum in response to our critics on this topic as well as a Legion of other topics relating to The Gospel of The Lord of Life/Lord/Redeemer/Savior/God/King/Master Jesus Christ. Did you read the Board rules before you entered here ?, this a Dialogue and Discussion Board not a come tell why we are wrong Board. If this is your intent then you may not last long here - just a Love shout out to you. I myself am a former evangelical christian [Methodist/Fundamentalist Independant Baptist]. What is the "All we can do in the Book of Mormon" 2 Nephi 25:23 ? [ Read in context not in isolation - read verses 23-28] , that is your 1st reading assignment. Then you need to read the BoM references again that Flyonthewall posted. Next are you once saved always saved ?, do you need to stay in True Grace ?. if so how ?, if not why ?. May True Grace be with you. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Hi Anakin7 Please don't respond to me again if your intention is just to talk down to me. Respect must first be given if one expects to receive it. Your "love" comment appears vailed in arrogance and condescencion, intimating that I should "bone up" before attempting to discourse with you, regardless of the fact that you have absolutely no idea who I am or what I know about the LDS faith. So please stop jumping to conclusions, and also please keep such remarks to yourself, and perhaps even "bone up" on the forum rules yourself before attempting to lord them over me. Yes, I read the rules and understand the focus of the forum and I'm looking for dialogue concerning the questions I asked. If reasonable requests for dialogue are offensive here, then.surely what is the point? Did I say you are wrong? No. Did I disrespect anyone in any way? No. I merely asked a couple questions, and I may have more depending on your answers. If I'm out of line for contrasting Christian orthodoxy with Mormon beliefs by asking questions, then I'll leave, but if this is a discussion forum, then will you please adorn me with answers? When I read LDS literature, it appears to me that exaltation is essentially impossible, in that one must become completely sinless, prior to one being worthy of receiving grace. I'm merely attempting to clarify if that is true or not. I also suggested that we start a new thread rather than permeate this one with off topic chatter.
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 BlahBlahBlah where in Moroni 10:32 does it say we "perfect ourselves" ?, it says to be perfected in "Him" - Christ Jesus !. And denying all ungodliness read Titus 2:11-15, Amen. What does one look like after they have made a decision to follow Jesus Christ to accept/access/activate/grab hold of /obtain True Grace [charis] by way of True Faith [pistis] and enduring to the end [Mark 13:13 ] ?, Justified Sanctified, Glorified. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 What does that mean, to be perfected in Christ? If one has denied all ungodliness, hasn't one forsaken all of his sins? The last time I checked the reformed Egyptian dictionary, "all" meant all.
Anakin7 Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) BlahBlahBlaH thank you for your response it is taken with love. We have a # of Evangelicals here that are Christlike/Charitable but many are not and are in full busybody/pratter/attack mode and they do not last long. I only posted what I did in case you were of the latter house/camp. It was not my intent to talk down to you it is just we have those that are as barking dogs that criticize on a consistant basis. My apologies if you took it the wrong way. I have a # of friends who are Ministers/Pastors/Priests/Reverands/Lay Members who are Roman Catholic Orthodox/Coptic Egyptian Catholic Orthodox/Greek CatholicOrthodox/Methodist/Baptist/Presbyterian/Reformed - Calvery Chapel/House Churches/Churches of Christ/Non Denominational/Street Preachers/Lay members. I have attended there Church services/Bible studies Church activities. We all have good relations with one another. So thank you for your forgiveness. May True Grace be with you and those you love. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited October 8, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) Titus 2:11-15 Paul speaks of deying ungodliness and worldly passions and to live in self control, this is done by the power of Grace that we use once it is inside of us I Believe. Paul did not want them to forsake some of there worldly passions but all I believe. Have a Grace filled day. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited October 8, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 BlahBlahBlah where do you fellowship to worship The LORD ?. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Anakin, I understand. No harm, no foul. Eph 4:29Let no corrupt speech proceed out of your mouth, but such as is good for building up as the need may be, that it may give grace to those who hear. 30Don't grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, outcry, and slander, be put away from you, with all malice. 32And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving each other, just as God also in Christ forgave you. So, with that in mind, will you care to address my questions?
Anakin7 Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 I am off to pick up my wife from work and run possible errands. Will get back when I can. Perhaps other LDS Saints/Christians can share with you. Once again where do you fellowship to worship the Lord ?, and do you adhere to once saved always saved ?. Thank you. May Grace be with you and those you Love. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Titus 2:11-15 Paul speaks of deying ungodliness and worldly passions and to live in self control, this is done by the power of Grace that we use once it is inside of us I Believe. Paul did not want them to forsake some of there worldly passions but all I believe. Have a Grace filled day. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Thanks for the reply Anakin. However, the following seems to indicate that one muxt overcome ALL sin and completely forsake ALL SIN from one's life before grace takes effect. Would you agree? Earlier you quoted Moroni 10:32. Here is an explanation:https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1998/04/have-you-been-saved?lang=engApril 1998 Have You Been Saved?Dallin H. OaksOf the Quorum of the Twelve ApostlesAnd what is “all we can do”? It surely includes repentance (see Alma 24:11) and baptism, keeping the commandments, and enduring to the end. Moroni pleaded, “Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ” (Moro. 10:32). Notice the "if/then" statement? "If" one denies himselff of ALL ungodliness, "then" is grace sufficient. Do you know of anyone besides Jesus Christ who has actually accomplished this?
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 I am off to pick up my wife from work and run possible errands. Will get back when I can. Perhaps other LDS Saints/Christians can share with you. Once again where do you fellowship to worship the Lord ?, and do you adhere to once saved always saved ?. Thank you. May Grace be with you and those you Love. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Ok, looking forward to your answers. As for my worship and fellowship habits, with all due respect, I prefer to remain anomolous. (pun intended)
Flyonthewall Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 I read it, but it's a clear misinterpretation of what the Bible teaches concerning faith, grace and salvation. The Bible clealy teaches that salvation is by grace, through faith in the atoning work of Jesus Christ,We claim the same. What you dont understand is that "faith" includes works, you cannot separate them. Works of faith, obedience to God's commands and love to others. plus nothing.agreed. In fact, I might ask if you have repented for attempting to offer good works (filthy rags) to the Lord as righteous deeds? Isaiah 64:6 For we have all become as one who is unclean, and all our righteousness is as a polluted garment: and we all fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.Ah, now YOU are taking scripture and mis-applying it. To whom was Isaiah speaking to? What was the state of affairs at the time it was said? Let us see what the Bible really says about works: Proverbs 24: 12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works? Matthew 5: 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Matthew 7:21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. James 2:14 - 26 a good read Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. What was the difference between the sheep and the goats? What they DID. Works. Does not sound like the Lord God considers good works as filthy rags to me. Perhaps there is more to take into consideration. It is the Atonement of Jesus Christ, provided to us by His grace, that allows our works to amount to anything. Our works do not save us, but they are required to partake of the fullness of the Atonement.
Anakin7 Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 From my LDS Kryptonian Archive - http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/destiny.htm In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Flyonthewall Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Thanks for the reply Anakin. However, the following seems to indicate that one muxt overcome ALL sin and completely forsake ALL SIN from one's life before grace takes effect. Would you agree? Earlier you quoted Moroni 10:32. Here is an explanation: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1998/04/have-you-been-saved?lang=eng April 1998 Have You Been Saved? Dallin H. Oaks Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles And what is “all we can do”? It surely includes repentance (see Alma 24:11) and baptism, keeping the commandments, and enduring to the end. Moroni pleaded, “Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ” (Moro. 10:32). Notice the "if/then" statement? "If" one denies himselff of ALL ungodliness, "then" is grace sufficient. Do you know of anyone besides Jesus Christ who has actually accomplished this?Did you miss the last part of the "then" statement? Let me point it out to you - then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ. We believe that Christ indeed commanded us: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Becoming perfect will not happen in this life but we can certainly be on the right path, based on our actions according to our faith. We will continue in our progression to perfection in the next life, just as Jesus commanded, by doing exactly as described. It can happen through the grace of Christ.
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 We claim the same. What you dont understand is that "faith" includes works, you cannot separate them. Works of faith, obedience to God's commands and love to others.agreed.Ah, now YOU are taking scripture and mis-applying it. To whom was Isaiah speaking to? What was the state of affairs at the time it was said?Let us see what the Bible really says about works:Proverbs 24: 12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?Matthew 5: 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.Matthew 7:21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.James 2:14 - 26 a good readRevelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.What was the difference between the sheep and the goats? What they DID. Works.Does not sound like the Lord God considers good works as filthy rags to me. Perhaps there is more to take into consideration.It is the Atonement of Jesus Christ, provided to us by His grace, that allows our works to amount to anything. Our works do not save us, but they are required to partake of the fullness of the Atonement. Hello Fly. I hope you don't mind if I call you that. I'm sure you realize, as I do, that Christians disagree that works are a requirement for salvation. I'm sure there have been many threads on that topic, and I can support my argument Scripturally as well. Romans, Hebrews, Ephesians, etc. I'm sure you know the drill. What I find interesting is the statement that your own works don't amount to anything, yet it appears they amount to a LOT, since one must work to overcome sin completely before grace is made available. Forsaking sin completely seems like a very daunting task to me. In fact, even impossible. So to say our works don't count for anything, when they are definitely required as a condition of receiving grace, indicates to me they are very important. Not to sound arrogant, but have you "truly" repented? Denying yourself of ALL ungodliness? Forsaken ALL sin? Do you know anyone who has?https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1980/10/forgive-them-i-pray-thee?lang=eng“Forgive Them, I Pray Thee”Vaughn J. Featherstone October 1980For one to be forgiven of sin, the Lord requires that he come unto him, mourn over his sins, forsake the sins, be teachable, forgive others, and confess..Again, in the fifty-eighth section of the Doctrine and Covenants, we read, “By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sinsbehold, he will confess them and forsake them” (D&C 58:43). ...actual forgiveness cannot take place until true repentance has preceded it.
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 From my LDS Kryptonian Archive - http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/destiny.htmIn His Eternal Debt/GraceAnakin7 Hi Anakin, This doesn't seem to say anything different than wnat I presented to you. Did I miss it?
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Did you miss the last part of the "then" statement? Let me point it out to you - then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ.We believe that Christ indeed commanded us: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.Becoming perfect will not happen in this life but we can certainly be on the right path, based on our actions according to our faith. We will continue in our progression to perfection in the next life, just as Jesus commanded, by doing exactly as described. It can happen through the grace of Christ. That's not what I read here: Moroni 10: 32, 3332Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace... 33And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins , that ye become holy , without spot. If you are "perfect" in Christ, deny yourself of All ungodliness with all your might, mind and strength. THEN is grace sufficient for you.Also, consider the following:Alma 34: 34,3534Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis , that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal...35For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you;...October 1977 The Blessings of Righteous Obedience Delbert L. Stapleyhttps://www.lds.org/general-conference/1977/10/the-blessings-of-righteous-obedience?lang=engWe must recognize that mortality has been granted to us as a probationary state where all physical appetites are to be mastered. It is far more difficult to repent in the spirit world of sins which involve physical habits and actions. The words of Amulek in the Book of Mormon give emphasis to this principle: “Behold,” he said, “now is the time and the day of your salvation. …“This life is the time for men to prepare to meet God. …“If we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. …“That same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.” (Alma 34:31–34.)It is obvious we either discipline our lives here, or pay the price for the undisciplined life in the world to come. end quote
Flyonthewall Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Hello Fly. I hope you don't mind if I call you that.Not at all. I'm sure you realize, as I do, that Christians disagree that works are a requirement for salvation. I'm sure there have been many threads on that topic, and I can support my argument Scripturally as well. Romans, Hebrews, Ephesians, etc. I'm sure you know the drill.Yes, I know the drill, but I do not think we are as far apart as you think. What I find interesting is the statement that your own works don't amount to anything, yet it appears they amount to a LOT, since one must work to overcome sin completely before grace is made available. Forsaking sin completely seems like a very daunting task to me. In fact, even impossible. So to say our works don't count for anything, when they are definitely required as a condition of receiving grace, indicates to me they are very important.Please understand that our works/deed/actions will never, ever be sufficient for our own salvation. It is only through the Atonement of Christ that we can be saved. The problem with discussions about salvation with non-LDS Christians is defining what "salvation" means. What it entails, what it involves. As I understand mainstream Christianity there is a dichotomy - saved/damned. Within LDS theology, savlation is much more nuanced. Not to sound arrogant, but have you "truly" repented? Denying yourself of ALL ungodliness? Forsaken ALL sin? Do you know anyone who has?I have truly repented of some things, I am still working on many others. Denying All ungodliness and forsaking All sin will come after this life. We will do our best in this life, but will fall short. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1980/10/forgive-them-i-pray-thee?lang=eng “Forgive Them, I Pray Thee” Vaughn J. Featherstone October 1980 For one to be forgiven of sin, the Lord requires that he come unto him, mourn over his sins, forsake the sins, be teachable, forgive others, and confess..Again, in the fifty-eighth section of the Doctrine and Covenants, we read, “By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sinsbehold, he will confess them and forsake them” (D&C 58:43). ...actual forgiveness cannot take place until true repentance has preceded it.Did you have a question about this?
Flyonthewall Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 That's not what I read here:Yet that is what it says. Moroni 10: 32, 33 32Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace...See? 33And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins , that ye become holy , without spot.If you are perfected in Christ, then are you without spot. If you are "perfect" in Christ, deny yourself of All ungodliness with all your might, mind and strength. THEN is grace sufficient for you.You have that backwards. If you deny all ungodliness with all yoru mith, mind and strength, then is grace sufficient for you to be perfected in Christ. Also, consider the following: Alma 34: 34,35 34Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis , that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal... 35For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you;... October 1977 The Blessings of Righteous Obedience Delbert L. Stapley https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1977/10/the-blessings-of-righteous-obedience?lang=eng We must recognize that mortality has been granted to us as a probationary state where all physical appetites are to be mastered. It is far more difficult to repent in the spirit world of sins which involve physical habits and actions. The words of Amulek in the Book of Mormon give emphasis to this principle: “Behold,” he said, “now is the time and the day of your salvation. … “This life is the time for men to prepare to meet God. … “If we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. … “That same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.” (Alma 34:31–34.) It is obvious we either discipline our lives here, or pay the price for the undisciplined life in the world to come. end quotePerhaps you can elaborate on what you think all these mean...?
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Not at all. Yes, I know the drill, but I do not think we are as far apart as you think. Please understand that our works/deed/actions will never, ever be sufficient for our own salvation. It is only through the Atonement of Christ that we can be saved.The problem with discussions about salvation with non-LDS Christians is defining what "salvation" means. What it entails, what it involves. As I understand mainstream Christianity there is a dichotomy - saved/damned. Within LDS theology, savlation is much more nuanced. I have truly repented of some things, I am still working on many others. Denying All ungodliness and forsaking All sin will come after this life. We will do our best in this life, but will fall short.Did you have a question about this? Fly, thanks for not taking yourself too seriously. <grin> And I'm glad we're not too far apart on the works/faith issue. But, the atonement doesn't "kick in" until one has truly repented. From what I can surmise from the LDS quotes I've posted, repenting means forsaking one's sins completely. Then, and only then is grace applied. And no, I don't have a question about Vaughn J. Featherstone's talk. Seems very straight forward when he says... "...actual forgiveness cannot take place until true repentance has preceded it." This is the same thing I see in all the other talks and Scriptures I've presented. What is true repentance? You must first work to overcome your sins, THEN and only then does one receive grace. Many believe that grace is what allows you to keep the commandments but grace only happens AFTER one has completely forsaken his sins. I must work to overcome my sin, THEN grace is effective.https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1972/04/salvation-and-exaltation?lang=eng&media=videoJuly 1972Salvation and ExaltationElder Theodore M. BurtonAssistant to the Council of the TwelveExaltation comes as a gift from God, dependent upon my obedience to God’s law. No works I do solely of my own power can bring this to pass. Only by the grace of God has this course been opened to me, but only through obedience to the laws of God can I claim my inheritance in the celestial kingdom of my Heavenly Father as a son within his family. I cannot be exalted in my sins, but must work until I overcome them.Amulek the prophet explained this most clearly as he said of God:“And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.” (Alma 11:37.)
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Yet that is what it says. See?If you are perfected in Christ, then are you without spot.You have that backwards. If you deny all ungodliness with all yoru mith, mind and strength, then is grace sufficient for you to be perfected in Christ.Perhaps you can elaborate on what you think all these mean...? Respectively.. I see the "if/then" statement. "IF" one forsakes his sin, "THEN" grace is sufficient. So it appears to me that you have it backwards. Correct. If one is without spot, as Jesus was, doesn't that mean they have forsaken their sins, as He did? Which, everything I've posted indicates is a necessary requirement BEFORE one receives grace. Go back and read the quotes and tell me if that's not what they say. I think all this means exaltation is essentially impossible. Do you know anyone who has forsaken ALL of their sins? That's the requirement. What do you think it means?
Flyonthewall Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Respectively.. I see the "if/then" statement. "IF" one forsakes his sin, "THEN" grace is sufficient. So it appears to me that you have it backwards.IF one has forsaken all sin, THEN grace is sufficient for perfection. Correct. If one is without spot, as Jesus was, doesn't that mean they have forsaken their sins, as He did?He had no sin to forsake. If we are perfected in Christ then we are without spot. Which, everything I've posted indicates is a necessary requirement BEFORE one receives grace. Go back and read the quotes and tell me if that's not what they say.That is not what they say. Grace is not an all or nothing proposition. Some will receive a little grace, some will receive a lot of grace. The fullness of the Grace of Christ provides perfection. Not everyone will be perfected. Only those that have forsaken all sin. I think all this means exaltation is essentially impossible. Do you know anyone who has forsaken ALL of their sins? That's the requirement. What do you think it means?We don't believe we will be perfected in this life, that may come in the next life. The key is what type of person we become in this life. Are we faithful? humble? teachable? loving? charitable? obedient? Repentant? We don't magically change at death to a different type of person. We will be judged by our works, by what we did here. What we LDS mean by "exaltation" is not the same thing that mainstream Christianity means by "savlation". Exaltation is so much more. We believe what Jesus said when He stated: "In my Father’s house are many mansions"...
Anakin7 Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Regarding Filthy Rags BlahBlahBlah I suggest you not quote Isaiah 64:6 anymore. Letting you know out of Love. May True Grace be with you. http://www.14lds.com/rags.htm http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/filtyrags.htm http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/FILTHY.TXT http://www.inplainsite.org/html/filthy_rags.html http://www.eternallifeblog.com/out-of-context.scriptures/ In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited October 9, 2015 by Anakin7 1
Calm Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Ok, looking forward to your answers. As for my worship and fellowship habits, with all due respect, I prefer to remain anomolous. (pun intended)Tends to be much easier to attack others' worship and fellowship habits when protecting one's own by hiding them. 3
Vance Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Being my fist post on this forum, I would like to offer a cheery hello to Vance, and all. Also, being an Evangelical Christian, I have some questions concerning what grace means to a Mormon. But this is probably off-topic in this thread, so if someone will start a new thread "what is required of the LDS for salvation?" (since I'm a newbie and can't start threads yet) or point to an old thread that discusses LDS salvation, I would be more than happy to pose my questions there. TIAI don't have a lot of time right now, but I would like to welcome you. Be warned though, if you are a typical Evangelical Christian, you are here to tell us what we believe, to quote some of our own scriptures to us, interpreting them in your own way, usually out of context. You will assume (erroneously) that your interpretation of Biblical scripture is the only reasonable one. You will be oblivious to your own preconceptions that you are reading into scripture. And so forth. And it is quite possible that you recently graduated from some anti-Mormon seminar. So, we will see if you are the "typical Evangelical Christian". Just to catch you up to speed in this thread. We have already demonstrated that the Evangelical definition of Grace is in error. So don't start out thinking that you have everything right with your own doctrine.
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