Storm Rider Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Evangelicals, imnsho, have never understood grace, faith, or works. Instead it is this mishmash of magic beliefs that all you have to do is walk the aisle, admit Jesus as Lord and then you are saved. It does not matter what happens every other day of the week, sin like a ship full of heathen sailors, but come Sunday, raise that hand to the Lord and you are saved. It is like having your own genie in a bottle, but this one is even better. No need to rub the bottle, just say the words, admit that Jesus is Lord, and shazam! You are saved. The problem is that the devils admit this very thing, but they are beyond redemption and are certainly not saved. What is the difference between this false teaching and the beliefs of devils? Nothing; they will get you the same result.
Anakin7 Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Storm Rider in Defense of coolrok7 I do not believe he believes in that scenario you presented [ I may be wrong ]. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Calm Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Instead it is this mishmash of magic beliefs that all you have to do is walk the aisle, admit Jesus as Lord and then you are saved. It does not matter what happens every other day of the week, sin like a ship full of heathen sailors, but come Sunday, raise that hand to the Lord and you are saved. It is like having your own genie in a bottle, but this one is even better. No need to rub the bottle, just say the words, admit that Jesus is Lord, and shazam! You are saved. While some evangelicals believe this, I agree with Anakin that this isn't coolrok's view nor is it a huge amount of evangelicals I know out there. We need to be careful not to make caricatures of others' views just as we hope they won't make it of ours.
coolrok7 Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Anakin7, you told me not to look it up, didn't you? So I stated from memory the immediate context which is the main point I'm making. I don't accept the BofM as Scripture from God, so the rest is irrelevant to me, even if it agrees at times with what is stated in the Bible. My point is that the BofM is a distortion of Ephesians 2:8-10 in context. It came directly from Joseph's mouth according to witnesses of the process, reading letters of light which is not actually translating in the normal sense. Right Anakin7/Cal, I don't have a "magic view" but an inclusive trust in the Word of God to save all who believe in God's promises, especially of salvation. It is the work of God, the gift of salvation which is eternal life, a product of having faith in the truth. Edited June 25, 2015 by coolrok7
Anakin7 Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) coolrok7 I think I may have told you in the past to "not look it up" - The context of 2 Nephi 25:23 to see if you knew the context from memory, obviously you have not presented it in context as you are claiming. Once again you are ignoring the tense of there Salvation Soteriological Journey/Quest in 2 Nephi 25:23. Read the context. Also the True Doctrine of True Grace/True Faith within the walls of The Heavenly Jerusalem where God The Father The Monarch Of The Universe/God The Son Jesus Christ The Vice Monarch of The Universe, Lord Of Life,Lord,Redeemer,Saviour,God,King,Master/The Awesome Holy Ghost/Spirit The Sanctifier/Testator of The Universe/Archangels/Angels/Rightiousness/Truth/True O.T Prophets/Hebrews/Israelites/True N.T Prophets/,Apostles/Saints/Christians is that The Word Grace has approx 50 definitional meanings in the Anchient World of which The # 1 I believe is "Unmerited Favor". And for Faith there areapprox 25 definitional meanings as with the statements I made about True Grace above in the Anchient world some of which are - Allegience/Commitment/Confidence/Devotion/Discipleship/Faithfulness/Fidelity/Loyalty/Obedience/Trust. These are Covenant Marriage concepts/principles of a spiritual marriage to Jesus Christ. We not longer keep the Old Covenant but now Totaly Embrace The New Covenant of The Laws God has given us to keep in our Hearts/Minds so as we stay in True Grace by way of True Faith. So 2 Nephi 25:23 fits Awesomely with Ephesians 2-8-9 along with Ephesians 6:10-18 AMEN !. Did Martin Luther truly believe and embrace this new covenant in his heart/mind from Jeremiah 31:33-34 ? And did he understand it along with Luthans today ?. Once again try again coolrok7. You need True Grace by way of True Faith - that which was held in the Hearts/Minds of the Anchients. Our True Salvation/Soteriological Journey/Quest is not a "works based" but a Love/Faith/Covenant/Obedience base with Jesus Christ as our True Foundation. So please no more bearing false witness against us. May you obtain/recieve True Grace by way of True Faith. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited June 25, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Also coolrok7 have you not told me you in the past [As a Lutheran Christian] you do not believe in OSAS ?, from conversations with other Lutherans - clergy, lay true Lutheran doctrine is not once saved always saved so must one do something to stay in Grace [ The True One ] ?. So you do merit the right to stay in True Grace once there by your Grace empowered acceptance for worthiness ?. Salvation Is Absolutly Free - 2 Nephi 2:4 ButIt Costs You your Very Life - Luke 14:25-33 In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited June 25, 2015 by Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted June 28, 2015 Posted June 28, 2015 No. Anything of grace is not merited, earned, or worked for (Romans 4). Faith is how grace is maintained.It cost Jesus His life as a perfect man (which provides for our Justification)! Who is God in the flesh.
Anakin7 Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) One must [Maintain-Merit ] the right to stay in True Grace by True Faith - pistis. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited June 29, 2015 by Anakin7
danielwoods Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 One must [Maintain-Merit ] the right to stay in True Grace by True Faith - pistis. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 I don't see that. Rather it's all Grace, and we simply allow God to work in and through us. We don't merit anything."10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me." (1 Cor. 15)"13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Philippians 2)
Anakin7 Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) We must accept/access/activate True Grace [charis] by way of True Faith [pistis - Allegience/Commitment/Confidence/Devotion/Discipleship/Faithfulnes/Fidelity/Loyalty/Obedience/Trust] to obtain that True Grace by Covenant and keep it. Yes we must allow and Grab hold of True Grace to have it work in our spiritual/temporal lives. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited June 29, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) coolrok7 did you read my post # 780 above in response to your post # 779 above?. Thank you. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited June 29, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) The Highest and most precious of all good works is Faith in Christ. Faith is a mental/physical Labor of Love which must be done to Serve God The Father, God The Son Jesus Christ, God The Holy Ghost Spirit. This one True work [Faith] enters you into the Covenant of Grace. Inn His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited June 29, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Removed. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited June 30, 2015 by Anakin7
Flyonthewall Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 I don't see that. Rather it's all Grace, and we simply allow God to work in and through us. We don't merit anything. "10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me." (1 Cor. 15) "13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Philippians 2)We still have to do the actions. If we don't act, if we don't work, God does not force us. God can influence us to do good, and magnify our actions In the end we are judged by what WE do, not by what God does. It is the atonement of Christ that gives our actions meaning, so yes in one way we can say we don't merit anything, but in another way we can say that we do.
danielwoods Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 I don't see that. Rather it's all Grace, and we simply allow God to work in and through us. We don't merit anything."10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me." (1 Cor. 15)"13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Philippians 2) We still have to do the actions. If we don't act, if we don't work, God does not force us.God can influence us to do good, and magnify our actionsIn the end we are judged by what WE do, not by what God does.It is the atonement of Christ that gives our actions meaning, so yes in one way we can say we don't merit anything, but in another way we can say that we do. When we "work" we are simply allowing God's grace to work through us. It's not us meriting anything, as if it's based on our own abilities and energy. It's all his grace, it's simply our willingness to let it happen.
Anakin7 Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Work we must but the Lunch is Free. From my LDS Kryptonian Archives - http://leewoof.org/2015/05/04/faith-alone-is-not-faith/ In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited June 30, 2015 by Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) What part did you play in your being conceived? Edited June 30, 2015 by coolrok7
Anakin7 Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 The part of my Salvation Soteriological Journey/Quest to return to the Heavenly mansion was I was in my mother in the egg being prepared for my father to help in getting me started on the way for birth. And the reason for your question is ?. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 Really Anakin7, you're providing a quote from a person involved in the teachings of Emmanuel Swedenborg? Faith Alone in the Protestant tradition is not by itself but is addressing the teaching of our Justification before God on the basis of faith, not of our works that follow faith, after having been saved by grace through faith, not of works.
Anakin7 Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 I was just giving a viewpoint from a non LDS Christian individual . I see no reason from you why his material on Faith is in error - However really coolrok why do you divorce yourself from the anchient middle eastern understanding of Grace and Faith and support post Biblical Protestant Salvation/Soteriological concepts ?. Faith [The True one] pistis - allegience/commitment/confidence/devotion/dedication/faithfulness/fidelity/loyalty/trust accepts/access/activates True Grace [charis]. Faith is a Law http://www.tgm.org/FaithIsALaw.html . No cheap Grace/antinomianiam/gnosticism in our house please. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
coolrok7 Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 Emmanuel Swedenborg is another heretical so-called Christian who preceded Joseph Smith in the same tradition of denying certain Biblical teaching, misrepresenting what "Faith Alone" actually means in explaining Biblical Justification/Sanctification. (by the way I'll be at the Riverside National cemetery for a burial at 9:45 this morning. Are you going to be near there today?)
Anakin7 Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) You see but you see not !, that is not what I said/believe about Grace. From our lights protestantism has departed from the Anchient Middle Eastern True Biblical Salvation/Soteriological Form/Model. Sorry I will be working today with a # of Evangelical Christians at my job thanks for the offer !. May True Grace be with you on your journey. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited June 30, 2015 by Anakin7
Flyonthewall Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 When we "work" we are simply allowing God's grace to work through us. It's not us meriting anything, as if it's based on our own abilities and energy. It's all his grace, it's simply our willingness to let it happen.To my ears, we are trying to say the same thing. If we are judged by our works(as in Revelations20), then does that not mean we merit the judgement we receive? I will readily admit that our own actions, ALL BY THEMSELVES, will not earn us anything, but it is the Atonement of Christ that gives any meaning to our actions. Would you say this is accurate?
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