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Why Aren't Mormons Christian?


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Posted

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

Vance do you still think you are capable of obeying ALL of the commandments which means that repentance is no longer necessary?

You are not answering the question.  It is really simple.

 

Which one of the commandments can't be obeyed?

Posted

If you are Christ all commandments can be kept. If you are not, then none of them are possible for you to keep. That is why you need a Savior. If you break even one commandment you have broken them all --- per the Holy Bible. If you even think of doing something it is exactly like you did it where God is concerned.

Posted

So if I think of keeping all the commandments, it is just like I did?

Problem solved, it would seem. ;)

Posted

So if I think of keeping all the commandments, it is just like I did?

Problem solved, it would seem. ;)

Repentance solves the problem for me.

I do just fine until I mess up, and then I repent, and then I am just fine again. I just need to get to the point where I don't need to repent anymore.

Posted

Freedom (post#464)

"The proof, from a doctrinal perspective, is the canon. It is the scriptures. If it is not supported by the scriptures then it is not doctrine. The proof in science is empirical evidence. The proof in mormonism is The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, The Perl of Great Price, the Bible, and the official proclamations. I cannot find a reference in the scriptures that states that God was once a man, therefore this is not doctrine and I do not accept it as truth."

 

So what Freedom said was false?  

 

Was Jesus not God and a man?

Posted (edited)

If you are Christ all commandments can be kept. If you are not, then none of them are possible for you to keep. That is why you need a Savior. If you break even one commandment you have broken them all --- per the Holy Bible. If you even think of doing something it is exactly like you did it where God is concerned.

 

I don't know why you would think we Mormons believe otherwise? As a believing Latter-day Saint, I have no problem saying I'm in full agreement with the above. In fact, the Book of Mormon is in full agreement with you as well, as the following four quotations will prove. I humbly and sincerely hope you will carefully read these quoted passages, and then, perhaps, you'll come to realize the LDS Church doesn't believe nor teach that fallen mortals can just "go it alone" when it comes to keeping the commandments of God. Rather, hopefully you'll come to understand we believe that without the forgiveness of sin, and the spiritual empowerment that's extended to man by grace through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, we would completely and utterly fail and all of us would unavoidably end up in hell forever with the devil and his angels.

 

And men are instructed sufficiently that they know good from evil. And the law is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is justified; or, by the law men are cut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.

Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for he is full of grace and truth.

Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered. (2 Nephi 2)

 

Clearly, the Book of Mormon teaches us that man cannot be justified by attempting to satisfy the demands of divine justice by keeping the commandments of God without the blessings of the Gospel of Christ. Justification (acquittal before God) can only come through repentance, not by somehow proving to God that we're righteous enough by trying to perfectly keep holy commandments that, by very nature, cannot be perfectly kept and obeyed by fallen mortals. 

 

12 Yea, I know that I am nothing; as to my strength I am weak; therefore I will not boast of myself, but I will boast of my God, for in his strength I can do all things; yea, behold, many mighty miracles we have wrought in this land, for which we will praise his name forever. (Alma 26)

 

Here the Book of Mormon prophet Ammon tells us that a fallen man is nothing when compared to God, and far too spiritually weak to be able to satisfactorily accomplish the things God commands him to do. But when a man humbly and sincerely turns to God through Christ for strength, then, like Paul, we can say "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

23 And Christ truly said unto our fathers: If ye have faith ye can do all things which are expedient unto me.

24 And now I speak unto all the ends of the earth—that if the day cometh that the power and gifts of God shall be done away among you, it shall be because of unbelief.

25 And wo be unto the children of men if this be the case; for there shall be none that doeth good among you, no not one. For if there be one among you that doeth good, he shall work by the power and gifts of God.

 

Here the prophet Moroni solemnly testifies that the only way a man can do any good at all (keep the commandments) is to first have faith in Christ as the Saviour of the world, and then perform his labors before God by means of the spiritual gifts and powers graciously bequeathed to man by virtue of the sacrifice and resurrection of Christ.

 

And God also declared unto prophets, by his own mouth, that Christ should come.

And behold, there were divers ways that he did manifest things unto the children of men, which were good; and all things which are good cometh of Christ; otherwise men were fallen, and there could no good thing come unto them. (Moroni 7)

 

It couldn't be cleared: In Christ comes every good thing unto men; and without Christ, and His great sacrifice, no good thing could come unto man, and man would be utterly powerless to do any good at all. (Moroni 7) 

 

There are a great many more Book of Mormon verses I could supply in this same vein, but this will suffice for now. But I must say I just can't understand how you anti-Mormons can come on this board in an attempt to discredit and overthrow the religion of the Latter-day Saints, when in reality you know so very little. You come here trying to teach us what we believe, when you are so very ignorant of what we actually do believe. As an antidote to this sorry state of affairs, I challenge you to read, study and seriously ponder the Book of Mormon...

Edited by teddyaware
Posted (edited)
If you are Christ all commandments can be kept. If you are not, then none of them are possible for you to keep.

Committing adultery are you?

 

Stealing are you?

 

Coveting your neighbors stuff are you?

 

Dishonoring your parents are you?

 

Unable to love God are you?

 

Unable to love your neighbor are you?

 

Unable to repent are you?

 

Unable to have faith in Christ are you?

 

You have a big problem. 

 

Besides, with such an admission, why should we accept you as our teacher?  Especially in light of this?

 

Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

  20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Edited by Vance
Posted (edited)

       Also remember that for the Awesome Apostle Paul There is no such thing as True Faith without Active Love - Galatians 5:6 or Obedience -      

       Romans 1:5.

 

       In His Debt/Grace

             Anakin7

Edited by Anakin7
Posted

So if I think of keeping all the commandments, it is just like I did?

Problem solved, it would seem. ;)

 

Halleluiah that helps a lot.

Posted

Repentance solves the problem for me.

I do just fine until I mess up, and then I repent, and then I am just fine again. I just need to get to the point where I don't need to repent anymore.

 

Littlenipper's way is much easier and quicker.  All you have to do is think about it.

Posted

 

Committing adultery are you?

 

Stealing are you?

 

Coveting your neighbors stuff are you?

 

Dishonoring your parents are you?

 

Unable to love God are you?

 

Unable to love your neighbor are you?

 

Unable to repent are you?

 

Unable to have faith in Christ are you?

 

You have a big problem. 

 

Besides, with such an admission, why should we accept you as our teacher?  Especially in light of this?

 

Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

  20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

 

I must confess to #3.  I have always wanted a big ol Harley like his.

Posted

    For those who are physicaly not abel to perform physical Commandments but sincerly want to I believe the Lord takes that as if they had done it.

 

In nHis Debt/Grace

       Anakin7

Posted

Was Jesus not God and a man?

Jesus is fully God and fully man.  But you did not answer the question that I asked.  Here is the dialogue from my post #555 that you were responding to.

 

 

Thesometimesaint

. . .Not all LDS beliefs are contained in our canon. Twice a year we have General Conference were new counsel  and applications are presented to the world. We fully believe that  all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

 

Freedom (post#464)

"The proof, from a doctrinal perspective, is the canon. It is the scriptures. If it is not supported by the scriptures then it is not doctrine. The proof in science is empirical evidence. The proof in mormonism is The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, The Perl of Great Price, the Bible, and the official proclamations. I cannot find a reference in the scriptures that states that God was once a man, therefore this is not doctrine and I do not accept it as truth."

 

 

So what Freedom said was false?  

Posted

Littlenipper's way is much easier and quicker. All you have to do is think about it.

Oh, I don't know that it's quicker or easier, really. It would also be pretty easy and quick for me if I chose to believe that I'm already at the point where I don't need to repent, anymore.
Posted

I don't think you are capable of obeying any of them.

Oh ye of little faith.

There is a way for you to get more faith, don't ya know.

Posted

Jesus is fully God and fully man.  But you did not answer the question that I asked.  Here is the dialogue from my post #555 that you were responding to.

 

 

Thesometimesaint

. . .Not all LDS beliefs are contained in our canon. Twice a year we have General Conference were new counsel  and applications are presented to the world. We fully believe that  all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

 

Freedom (post#464)

"The proof, from a doctrinal perspective, is the canon. It is the scriptures. If it is not supported by the scriptures then it is not doctrine. The proof in science is empirical evidence. The proof in mormonism is The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, The Perl of Great Price, the Bible, and the official proclamations. I cannot find a reference in the scriptures that states that God was once a man, therefore this is not doctrine and I do not accept it as truth."

 

 

So what Freedom said was false?  

Doctrine is official teachings. Modern revelation that comes through general conference has never changed doctrine, it has interpreted doctrine. There are teachings and truths that are not encompassed in our doctrines but that are accepted. For example, we currently teach that the most important foundation of a marriage is common values. This is a teaching but not an official doctrine. a doctrine would be 'marriage is eternal through temple ordinances'. The teachings of the church expands and gives context to this doctrine by teaching how to be an eternal family. Not all truths are doctrine and not all doctrines are truths. As more revelation comes out, we may adjust our doctrines. The church has made it very clear where we find our doctrines. 

Posted

Jesus is fully God and fully man. 

You guys are so funny.  First you fabricate the false "creator", "creature" dichotomy.  And then you have to jump through all sorts of logical hoops, contortions and distortions to show that Jesus breached that false dichotomy.

 

Why not just give up that false dichotomy in the first place?

Posted

Why not just give up that false dichotomy in the first place?

Probably because it hasn't been shown to be false, least of all by you.

Posted (edited)

Probably because it hasn't been shown to be false, least of all by you.

I don't have to show that it is false.  The mere existence of Jesus does it for me.  Or do you deny that Jesus is "fully God and fully man"?

Edited by Vance
Posted

I don't have to show that it is false.  The mere existence of Jesus does it for me.  Or do you deny that Jesus is "fully God and fully man"?

fully God and fully man is not a false dichotomy

Posted

fully God and fully man is not a false dichotomy

It is when you claim that there is an uncrossable chasm between what God is and what man is.

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