bluebell Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Who said anything about what can and cannot rightly be said about C.S. Lewis? What I said was it's important to keep context in mind, and that Lewis' context was traditional Anglican and Nicene. That's hardly a controversial position to take. I'll ask again, if you came across an Anglican blog using Mormon writings to interpret Anglican beliefs, would you have a problem with a Mormon commenting that the writings should be read and understood from within an LDS context?I think your point is a good reminder. We shouldn't use the words of Lewis to support LDS teachings that he clearly didn't believe in. That wouldn't be an honest use of his work.
bluebell Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 What about "Life of Brian"?I've never read that one.
Duncan Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 I've never read that one. it was a Monty Python movie
bluebell Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 it was a Monty Python movieOh, well hearing that, I think I did watch a small part if that once. My history professor showed part of it in my Ancient Rome class. 1
Duncan Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Oh, well hearing that, I think I did watch a small part if that once. My history professor showed part of it in my Ancient Rome class. it's somewhat funny! they have that song, "look on the bright side of life"!
The Nehor Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 it's somewhat funny! they have that song, "look on the bright side of life"!"All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?""Brought peace?""Oh, peace? SHUT UP!"[The audience members at the back of the crowd are having trouble hearing the Sermon on the Mount.]Man: I think it was, "Blessed are the cheesemakers"!Gregory's wife: What's so special about the cheesemakers?Gregory: Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturer of dairy products. 2
Robert F. Smith Posted December 18, 2014 Posted December 18, 2014 Who said anything about what can and cannot rightly be said about C.S. Lewis? What I said was it's important to keep context in mind, and that Lewis' context was traditional Anglican and Nicene. That's hardly a controversial position to take. I'll ask again, if you came across an Anglican blog using Mormon writings to interpret Anglican beliefs, would you have a problem with a Mormon commenting that the writings should be read and understood from within an LDS context? Sounds like a straw man position to me. Perhaps you have a particular yokel in mind. Could you cite him and his specific errors? Then tell me: How important or significant is this observation of yours? What I have tried to communicate to you is that we all have opinions aplenty, but do we do ourselves and others justice when we feel compelled to remark on every little jot and tittle of needed conformity to theological positions (whether explicit or implicit) when a friend admires the work of someone from a different faith tradition? Is that so crucial as you seem to feel? We have on this board people who emphasize the differences, while others emphasize the similarities. Is there room for preferences in your world?
3DOP Posted December 18, 2014 Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) Oddly enough, I can't stand the Narnia stories. I tried to read the first book, but couldn't make myself finish it. I saw the first movie, and it was OK from an entertainment point of view, but I couldn't get past Aslan as a stand-in for Christ. It just made me cringe. I know what he was trying to say, and I can appreciate what it did for many people, but... not for me.Mere Christianity is a favorite book of mine, though. Stargazer hey. You're not alone. I tried to read the Chronicles to my kids. I found it laborious and gave up at volume 5 or 6. I should ask them now how they liked it. I read the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings to the kids which had them spellbound...or maybe it was me who was spellbound. The Aslan movie didn't work for me either. I like Lewis' Space Trilogy. Sheldon Vanauken was an atheist who came to the faith in large part because Lewis answered the question that is still current in General Discussions, "Why so many different planets?", in the Trilogy. The first time I read Mere Christianity was like all the lights came on in my world. I was in my early 20's I am sure. I wanted to recapture the "experience" and a second reading was only okay. By the third reading, I thought I disagreed with him on a few important things. But its still very memorable all these years later. Maybe I should make a revisit now 25 years or more since my last try. I know I don't agree with his theory about the warmth of the fireplace in the main room and the relative unimportance of the doors. I don't see how I could agree with that unless I was Protestant, and that means not LDS either. I believe in "One True Door". I don't mean to be too critical. Screwtape is very good, even though so short. I believe he nailed who the devil is and how he works. There was this other book about Greek Mythology that I didn't get. I think I didn't understand the symbolism. "Til We Have Faces"? He died the day JFK was shot and was understandably overshadowed in the news. May they rest in peace. Rory Edited December 18, 2014 by 3DOP
cinepro Posted December 18, 2014 Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) C.S. Lewis was a creedal Christian, i.e., one who accepts the Nicene Creed and worships the Holy Trinity. Everything he wrote must be understood from within that context. It's not too late to order for Christmas... Also check out "The Latter-day Teachings of Gandhi" and "Muhammad was a Mormon." Since C.S. Lewis lived in a world (and country) in which the Mormonism was being preached and practiced, I think it's safe to say he was at least aware of the Church on some level and actively chose not to join it. I don't know whether he would be offended to know such a book had been written, but I'm sure he would at least be amused. Edited December 18, 2014 by cinepro
The Nehor Posted December 18, 2014 Posted December 18, 2014 It's not too late to order for Christmas... Also check out "The Latter-day Teachings of Gandhi" and "Muhammad was a Mormon." Since C.S. Lewis lived in a world (and country) in which the Mormonism was being preached and practiced, I think it's safe to say he was at least aware of the Church on some level and actively chose not to join it. I don't know whether he would be offended to know such a book had been written, but I'm sure he would at least be amused.We need a better vomit emoticon.
Spammer Posted December 18, 2014 Posted December 18, 2014 It's not too late to order for Christmas... Also check out "The Latter-day Teachings of Gandhi" and "Muhammad was a Mormon." Since C.S. Lewis lived in a world (and country) in which the Mormonism was being preached and practiced, I think it's safe to say he was at least aware of the Church on some level and actively chose not to join it. I don't know whether he would be offended to know such a book had been written, but I'm sure he would at least be amused. I'll check those out right after I finish "Thomas S. Monson: Prophet of the Catholic Counter-Reformation". It's on sale from at Barnes and Noble, just in time for the holidays. 1
Spammer Posted December 18, 2014 Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) Sounds like a straw man position to me. Perhaps you have a particular yokel in mind. Could you cite him and his specific errors? Then tell me: How important or significant is this observation of yours? What I have tried to communicate to you is that we all have opinions aplenty, but do we do ourselves and others justice when we feel compelled to remark on every little jot and tittle of needed conformity to theological positions (whether explicit or implicit) when a friend admires the work of someone from a different faith tradition? Is that so crucial as you seem to feel? We have on this board people who emphasize the differences, while others emphasize the similarities. Is there room for preferences in your world? The problem is when a similarity is emphasized that's actually a difference. My comment about context was inspired by past online and Gospel Doctrine encounters with a couple of yokels who read Lewis and thought they found idiosyncratically Mormon theological points in his writings. What they perceived as similarity becomes difference once Lewis's foundational beliefs in ex nihilo creation and the Holy Trinity are taken into account. The yokels emphasized surface similarities to make their case that unique principles of the restored gospel can be found in his writings. This approach is feasible only if you ignore what Lewis believed about the nature of God. Context is key. That's really the only point I was trying to make. Edited December 18, 2014 by Spammer 2
Robert F. Smith Posted December 18, 2014 Posted December 18, 2014 The problem is when a similarity is emphasized that's actually a difference. My comment about context was inspired by past online and Gospel Doctrine encounters with a couple of yokels who read Lewis and thought they found idiosyncratically Mormon theological points in his writings. What they perceived as similarity becomes difference once Lewis's foundational beliefs in ex nihilo creation and the Holy Trinity are taken into account. The yokels emphasized surface similarities to make their case that unique principles of the restored gospel can be found in his writings. This approach is feasible only if you ignore what Lewis believed about the nature of God. Context is key. That's really the only point I was trying to make. I frequently discuss foundational beliefs (such as creatio ex nihilo, the Trinity, etc.), but I never allow those notions to belittle commonalities in emphasis on grace or the Atonement. Rather than widening the Divide, I often try to find our strong bonds. Just because we differ in some crucial ways, does not denigrate our agreements (many of which are not even apparent to us). For you "context is key," which is code for the glass is half empty, while for others the glass is half full. That you were unable to supply specific examples speaks volumes about the preference you have to find differences and to use them as a weapon to deny legitimate similarities, thus poisoning the wells. I wish that you wouldn't do that. I consider it unchristian at worst, bad manners at best. 2
Spammer Posted December 18, 2014 Posted December 18, 2014 Sigh. Ok. Never mind. It's not worth it. This has been blown way out of proportion. My fault. I wish you well and a very Merry Christmas. 1
The Nehor Posted December 18, 2014 Posted December 18, 2014 Sigh. Ok. Never mind. It's not worth it. This has been blown way out of proportion. My fault. I wish you well and a very Merry Christmas.You mean Smithmas right? 1
Gervin Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 I frequently discuss foundational beliefs (such as creatio ex nihilo, the Trinity, etc.), but I never allow those notions to belittle commonalities in emphasis on grace or the Atonement. Rather than widening the Divide, I often try to find our strong bonds. Just because we differ in some crucial ways, does not denigrate our agreements (many of which are not even apparent to us). For you "context is key," which is code for the glass is half empty, while for others the glass is half full. That you were unable to supply specific examples speaks volumes about the preference you have to find differences and to use them as a weapon to deny legitimate similarities, thus poisoning the wells. I wish that you wouldn't do that. I consider it unchristian at worst, bad manners at best."Context is key" is code for our glass is empty because your lord and savior informed you that all the Christian churches were wrong, all their creeds were an abomination, and all of their professors were corrupt. So, I wholeheartedly encourage LDS members to read Lewis, and Brunner, Bonhoeffer, Niebuhr, Merton, Carson, etc., but be warned that these modern day professors recited the same creeds as members of the same churches that Christ allegedly addressed. Maybe Christ should have been more glass-half-full?
Robert F. Smith Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Sigh. Ok. Never mind. It's not worth it. This has been blown way out of proportion. My fault. I wish you well and a very Merry Christmas.Merry Christmas, to you too, Spammer. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865617947/Visiting-minister-urges-unity-among-Christians.html?s_cid=Email-1 .
Robert F. Smith Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 "Context is key" is code for our glass is empty because your lord and savior informed you that all the Christian churches were wrong, all their creeds were an abomination, and all of their professors were corrupt. So, I wholeheartedly encourage LDS members to read Lewis, and Brunner, Bonhoeffer, Niebuhr, Merton, Carson, etc., but be warned that these modern day professors recited the same creeds as members of the same churches that Christ allegedly addressed. Maybe Christ should have been more glass-half-full? What are a few creedal differences among friends? All those are good guys, though I don't know about Johnny Carson (or was it Rachel Carson?), and Jesus was so expansive and accepting that maybe everybody gets saved anyhow. Hey, Gervin: Merry Christmas!! 1
Robert F. Smith Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 You mean Smithmas right?No need to go that far, Nehor. Just give me a rep point.
Gervin Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 What are a few creedal differences among friends? All those are good guys, though I don't know about Johnny Carson (or was it Rachel Carson?), and Jesus was so expansive and accepting that maybe everybody gets saved anyhow. Hey, Gervin: Merry Christmas!!Merry Christmas, Robert F. Smith. It was D.A. Carson, but Johnny Carson works fine, too.
Ham Clam Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 I hope my college is subscribed to the Journal of Inkling Studies so I can look at issues about C.S. Lewis over the break.
Ham Clam Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 I was an atheist after I left Mormonism. C.S. Lewis was instrumental in bringing me back to faith in Christ. I also owe him a huge debt.I had a girl living in the room next to mine when I lived in the dorms. She was a Lutheran having a faith crisis, so she collected everything C.S. Lewis had wrote and it helped her in her time of doubt. Powerful writer.
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