Bishop On Harry Reid

[ERayR]

This Bishop is in no way a modern Moroni.  

 

The Bishop, oversteps his mantle, in a vain attempt to exercise dominion over someone not within his stewardship.

The Bishop double speaks by lambasting the Democratic party, and its platform, but then with subtle cunning craftiness claims "I have no problem with an average Mormon in the pew who supports the Democratic Party...". Excuse me Bishop yes you do have a problem with Democrats.

 

The Bishop then has the audacity to call Ried a prositute; I have to ask, how much does Mark Paredes get paid by the Jewish Journal to peddle and pimp his views under the guise of being a Bishop of the LDS Church. Also speaking of being affiliated or support groups opposed to the teaching of the Church, does Judaism accept Christ as the Lord and Savior of the earth - a center teaching and belief of the LDS Church? A quick search also reveals that Judaism teaching "There will be no more torah", thus rejecting modern revelation and scripture.

 

Step on your toes it seems he did.

[ERayR]

You got me!  I shall now slink off to some dark corner of the Seventh Circle of Hell!

 

Don't go to far I still like you, but then I am not much into numerology either.

[bluebell]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the bishop has apologized. At least he has for implying his ecclesiastical authority meant he could judge Reid.

He didn't apologize for the things he actually said about him.

Sorry I can link to the apology but I'm typing this one handed while feeding a baby and holding a cat.

[Kenngo1969]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the bishop has apologized. At least he has for implying his ecclesiastical authority meant he could judge Reid.

He didn't apologize for the things he actually said about him.

Sorry I can link to the apology but I'm typing this one handed while feeding a baby and holding a cat.

 Is that all?!

 

Maybe later!

[ERayR]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the bishop has apologized. At least he has for implying his ecclesiastical authority meant he could judge Reid.

He didn't apologize for the things he actually said about him.

Sorry I can link to the apology but I'm typing this one handed while feeding a baby and holding a cat.

 

He did enough.  He apologized for his error.

 

Multi-tasking

[tonie]

Step on your toes it seems he did.

 

 

as he did yours, though, based on your position, you appeaer only troubled by his "cloak", and not troubled by his unrighteous judgement of others.

 

 

I too am deeply troubled by his using the cloak of his ecclesiastic calling.  I am confident that by now he has been apprised of this error.

[ERayR]

as he did yours, though, based on your position, you appeaer only troubled by his "cloak", and not troubled by his unrighteous judgement of others.

 

Whether his judgement is unrighteous or not depends on whether there there is any truth to it or not and that one we can argue til the cows come home.  Whichever side one comes down on will depend on your understanding of the constitution.

[Jude2]

Maybe this Bishop should not have expressed it the way he did because it’s not really that Harry is a Democrat, I really don’t know the party affiliation of most of my Church friends it rarely comes up in conversation. 

But how does Harry answer this question, how can Harry's Bishop keep a straight face? 

“Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?”

If I were a Bishop I would have a hard time giving Reid a recommend for the temple because Harry is not an honest man. 

One example of his lies is when he stood on the Senate floor and claimed fellow Mormon Mitt Romney hadn’t paid taxes in 10 years. It was an ugly dirty lie for which he never apologized.

[3DOP]

This is why I'm for the complete separation of Church and State. Also of note is that the Pope just demoted a Catholic Bishop for the same cause.

SEE http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2014/11/08/pope-makes-it-official-burke-is-out-at-vaticans-supreme-court/

 

Hi the sometimesaint. The reason you attribute for Cardinal Burke's demotion is debatable to say the least. http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/11/burke-is-schismatic-because-he-was-nice.html

 

"Raymond Burke studied theology in Rome, where Pope Paul VI ordained him to the priesthood in 1975. He returned to his home diocese of La Crosse, Wis., and did a couple of years of chancery work and assisting at the cathedral before returning to Rome to get a doctorate in canon law. He then did another few years of chancery work and teaching in the diocese before being called to the Vatican in 1989 to work in the Apostolic Signatura. Five years later, at only 46 years old, Pope John Paul II appointed him bishop of La Crosse.

 

In the nine years as head of his home diocese, his credentials as a doctrinal conservative and his strange penchant for the pre-Second Vatican Council Mass became more and more pronounced. He reopened the diocese's long-shuttered high school seminary, set about building a retrograde shrine to Our Lady of Guadalupe, and helped establish a weird neo-Tridentine religious community that had a special indult to use the Old Rite. This was a full decade before Pope Benedict XVI would eventually grant unfettered use of the Tridentine Mass throughout the church.

 

But already, Burke had established a strong connection with then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, father of these so-called "Ecclesia Dei Afflicta" communities. They take their unofficial name from Pope John Paul II's 1988 motu proprio, which excommunicated Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and the four bishops he illicitly ordained for his Society of St. Pius X. That document also appealed to Lefebvre's adherents to return to Rome, and Ratzinger, from the start, was a major force in facilitating the establishment of what are now dozens of small communities that were given special permission to use the Old Mass and live practically as if Vatican II never happened."

 

-------------------------------------

 

I bold the parts that in my opinion are the only reasons for Cardinal Burke's demotion. While Rome willingly prays with voodoo witch doctors and prepares to celebrate the 500th anniversary of Martin Luther's 95 Theses, there remains only only one "sect" on the religious landscape of the planet worthy of vilification, excommunication, and final damnation. Everybody is welcome to the kingdom of God excepting those Catholics who adhere to the Traditions of the Fathers, and the Mass of All Time. Cardinal Burke is not my hero, not in the least. But he is an example of the woe that comes to any churchman under the iron fist of Pope Bergoglio who shows sympathy for Catholics who still accept the Catholic Church as it was before 1965.    

[ERayR]

Hi the sometimesaint. The reason you attribute for Cardinal Burke's demotion is debatable to say the least. http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/11/burke-is-schismatic-because-he-was-nice.html

 

"Raymond Burke studied theology in Rome, where Pope Paul VI ordained him to the priesthood in 1975. He returned to his home diocese of La Crosse, Wis., and did a couple of years of chancery work and assisting at the cathedral before returning to Rome to get a doctorate in canon law. He then did another few years of chancery work and teaching in the diocese before being called to the Vatican in 1989 to work in the Apostolic Signatura. Five years later, at only 46 years old, Pope John Paul II appointed him bishop of La Crosse.

 

In the nine years as head of his home diocese, his credentials as a doctrinal conservative and his strange penchant for the pre-Second Vatican Council Mass became more and more pronounced. He reopened the diocese's long-shuttered high school seminary, set about building a retrograde shrine to Our Lady of Guadalupe, and helped establish a weird neo-Tridentine religious community that had a special indult to use the Old Rite. This was a full decade before Pope Benedict XVI would eventually grant unfettered use of the Tridentine Mass throughout the church.

 

But already, Burke had established a strong connection with then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, father of these so-called "Ecclesia Dei Afflicta" communities. They take their unofficial name from Pope John Paul II's 1988 motu proprio, which excommunicated Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and the four bishops he illicitly ordained for his Society of St. Pius X. That document also appealed to Lefebvre's adherents to return to Rome, and Ratzinger, from the start, was a major force in facilitating the establishment of what are now dozens of small communities that were given special permission to use the Old Mass and live practically as if Vatican II never happened."

 

-------------------------------------

 

I bold the parts that in my opinion are the only reasons for Cardinal Burke's demotion. While Rome willingly prays with voodoo witch doctors and prepares to celebrate the 500th anniversary of Martin Luther's 95 Theses, there remains only only one "sect" on the religious landscape of the planet worthy of vilification, excommunication, and final damnation. Everybody is welcome to the kingdom of God excepting those Catholics who adhere to the Traditions of the Fathers, and the Mass of All Time. Cardinal Burke is not my hero, not in the least. But he is an example of the woe that comes to any churchman under the iron fist of Pope Bergoglio who shows sympathy for Catholics who still accept the Catholic Church as it was before 1965.    

 

Your analysis is interesting and while I know very little of the workings of the Catholic Churches government the encroachment of liberal political correctness is not surprising as it is infiltrating every aspect of lives.

[thesometimesaint]

Hi the sometimesaint. The reason you attribute for Cardinal Burke's demotion is debatable to say the least. http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/11/burke-is-schismatic-because-he-was-nice.html

 

"Raymond Burke studied theology in Rome, where Pope Paul VI ordained him to the priesthood in 1975. He returned to his home diocese of La Crosse, Wis., and did a couple of years of chancery work and assisting at the cathedral before returning to Rome to get a doctorate in canon law. He then did another few years of chancery work and teaching in the diocese before being called to the Vatican in 1989 to work in the Apostolic Signatura. Five years later, at only 46 years old, Pope John Paul II appointed him bishop of La Crosse.

 

In the nine years as head of his home diocese, his credentials as a doctrinal conservative and his strange penchant for the pre-Second Vatican Council Mass became more and more pronounced. He reopened the diocese's long-shuttered high school seminary, set about building a retrograde shrine to Our Lady of Guadalupe, and helped establish a weird neo-Tridentine religious community that had a special indult to use the Old Rite. This was a full decade before Pope Benedict XVI would eventually grant unfettered use of the Tridentine Mass throughout the church.

 

But already, Burke had established a strong connection with then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, father of these so-called "Ecclesia Dei Afflicta" communities. They take their unofficial name from Pope John Paul II's 1988 motu proprio, which excommunicated Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and the four bishops he illicitly ordained for his Society of St. Pius X. That document also appealed to Lefebvre's adherents to return to Rome, and Ratzinger, from the start, was a major force in facilitating the establishment of what are now dozens of small communities that were given special permission to use the Old Mass and live practically as if Vatican II never happened."

 

-------------------------------------

 

I bold the parts that in my opinion are the only reasons for Cardinal Burke's demotion. While Rome willingly prays with voodoo witch doctors and prepares to celebrate the 500th anniversary of Martin Luther's 95 Theses, there remains only only one "sect" on the religious landscape of the planet worthy of vilification, excommunication, and final damnation. Everybody is welcome to the kingdom of God excepting those Catholics who adhere to the Traditions of the Fathers, and the Mass of All Time. Cardinal Burke is not my hero, not in the least. But he is an example of the woe that comes to any churchman under the iron fist of Pope Bergoglio who shows sympathy for Catholics who still accept the Catholic Church as it was before 1965.    

 

I don't know enough about Catholic Theology to effectively comment on it. What I was commenting on was the public perception that Cardinal Burke overstepped his role as Cardinal in determining what political party Catholics had to belong to to receive Communion.

 

What I do know is that LDS Theology is against making faithfulness to the Church a partisan political weapon.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Maybe this Bishop should not have expressed it the way he did because it’s not really that Harry is a Democrat, I really don’t know the party affiliation of most of my Church friends it rarely comes up in conversation. 

But how does Harry answer this question, how can Harry's Bishop keep a straight face? 

“Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?”

If I were a Bishop I would have a hard time giving Reid a recommend for the temple because Harry is not an honest man. 

One example of his lies is when he stood on the Senate floor and claimed fellow Mormon Mitt Romney hadn’t paid taxes in 10 years. It was an ugly dirty lie for which he never apologized.

Though I agree with you 100%, there is another possibility. And I cannot believe that I would ever come to this mans defense but he may have repented and they may have talked about this and other wrong doings.

 

If I understand, Harry Ried has a temple recommend now. And while I disagree with him on so many things, his bishop finds him worthy. And that is all that matters at this point unless some one actually has something on him, then the dude in LA had no right to say what he did. Which seems to be the case.

[Mahoneymoriancumer]

    Being a Nevada native, I can attest that Senator Reid is not popular in Mormon circles, and many members can relate personal experiences with him (and his campaigns) visiting our chapels (he was actually thrown out of one building for politicking by a 6'8" bishop who earned my undying admiration).  

    Having said that, we had a missionary in our home a while back who was from Maryland, and said Reid was in his ward, and had nothing but kind things to say about the man.  Reid seems to find a personal balance that justifies his party affiliation; for example, Reid publicly claims to be pro-life, despite his party's stance.  The recommend interview is more of a self-interview than anything else, and while the bishop is the ultimate judge, if Reid can justify his answers to the questions given in the interview, I could see a bishop being willing to let Reid's answers stand, and trust the Lord to let him sink or swim with them.  In the meantime, I will hope that if the Lord can forgive Harry Reid, there's hope for me.  

[ERayR]

    Being a Nevada native, I can attest that Senator Reid is not popular in Mormon circles, and many members can relate personal experiences with him (and his campaigns) visiting our chapels (he was actually thrown out of one building for politicking by a 6'8" bishop who earned my undying admiration).  

    Having said that, we had a missionary in our home a while back who was from Maryland, and said Reid was in his ward, and had nothing but kind things to say about the man.  Reid seems to find a personal balance that justifies his party affiliation; for example, Reid publicly claims to be pro-life, despite his party's stance.  The recommend interview is more of a self-interview than anything else, and while the bishop is the ultimate judge, if Reid can justify his answers to the questions given in the interview, I could see a bishop being willing to let Reid's answers stand, and trust the Lord to let him sink or swim with them.  In the meantime, I will hope that if the Lord can forgive Harry Reid, there's hope for me.

 

My responses from my Nevada acquaintances align with what you have reported.  If it weren't for self justification there would be a lot less sin.

[Robert F. Smith]

I don't know enough about Catholic Theology to effectively comment on it. What I was commenting on was the public perception that Cardinal Burke overstepped his role as Cardinal in determining what political party Catholics had to belong to to receive Communion.

 

What I do know is that LDS Theology is against making faithfulness to the Church a partisan political weapon.

This is the main point.  Well stated.

[Robert F. Smith]

-------------------------------------

 

I bold the parts that in my opinion are the only reasons for Cardinal Burke's demotion. While Rome willingly prays with voodoo witch doctors and prepares to celebrate the 500th anniversary of Martin Luther's 95 Theses, there remains only only one "sect" on the religious landscape of the planet worthy of vilification, excommunication, and final damnation. Everybody is welcome to the kingdom of God excepting those Catholics who adhere to the Traditions of the Fathers, and the Mass of All Time. Cardinal Burke is not my hero, not in the least. But he is an example of the woe that comes to any churchman under the iron fist of Pope Bergoglio who shows sympathy for Catholics who still accept the Catholic Church as it was before 1965.    

Once again your clarifications are very helpful for those of us who hold Catholicism in high esteem.

 

We have had our own experience with traditionalists, for example the Fundamentalist LDS polygamists who insisted on retaining the old Mormon polygamy.  As you know, they are excommunicated from the LDS Church when discovered.  On the other hand, within Judaism, the Ultra Orthodox insist on retaining many old ways, including garb that is centuries old, but remain Jews in good standing.  The same seems to apply to the Amish.  Often such differences seem quaint, sometimes obsessive-compulsive, but to the LDS Church polygamy is now considered an existential threat.

[Wants2know]

I have not read all the posts, but as a mormon democrat I do have something to say on this subject. It comes down to there being, for me, the mormon social culture, and the mormon religious culture. I subscribe to the latter. I have become a profound advocate of the church in my little world, defending the role of women and the restored Gospel. I was a dem before being a mormon, and have become more so since becoming a member, as personally, I feel the Gospel is more aligned with my feminist political thought. I know I'm in the minority. I have taken great offense to the handful of people (all women) who have straight up told me that if I were to express my views to the Bishop, I would not be worthy of a temple recommend. When, in fact, one popular woman blogger emailed me this sentiment, and I told her both my Bishop and my Stake president were well aware of my thoughts, I was blocked from her "well behaved" site. I remain convicted that the Gospel is for EVERYONE. People, not just leaders who response otherwise are, in my opinion, doing disservice to Christ's word. This isn't an issue about Harry Reid. It's an issue that impacts members such as myself, who are at risk of being disenfranchised from the church because of neglectful, thoroughly disrespectful commentary.

[Wants2know]

I have not read all the posts, but as a mormon democrat I do have something to say on this subject. It comes down to there being, for me, the mormon social culture, and the mormon religious culture. I subscribe to the latter. I have become a profound advocate of the church in my little world, defending the role of women and the restored Gospel. I was a dem before being a mormon, and have become more so since becoming a member, as personally, I feel the Gospel is more aligned with my feminist political thought. I know I'm in the minority. I have taken great offense to the handful of people (all women) who have straight up told me that if I were to express my views to the Bishop, I would not be worthy of a temple recommend. When, in fact, one popular woman blogger emailed me this sentiment, and I told her both my Bishop and my Stake president were well aware of my thoughts, I was blocked from her "well behaved" site. I remain convicted that the Gospel is for EVERYONE. People, not just leaders who response otherwise are, in my opinion, doing disservice to Christ's word. This isn't an issue about Harry Reid. It's an issue that impacts members such as myself, who are at risk of being disenfranchised from the church because of neglectful, thoroughly disrespectful commentary.

[Calm]

Sounds like she did you a favour.

[Wants2know]

I agree Cal.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I am not a fan of Reid. However, this ignoramus should get an award for idiot of the year.http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/1797370-155/church-mormon-lds-political-reid-democratic

You are adding to man anti-Mormon forums and sites; why?

[Calm]

Don't understand the question, PaPa. Haven't seen Want2Know link to any anti Mormon sites.

[Silhouette]

You are adding to man anti-Mormon forums and sites; why?

I don't understand either, Pa Pa. You quoted Valentinus and the link in their comments, but the link just goes to the Salt Lake Tribune.

[Wants2know]

I think Papa is referring to blogger, and assumes it was antimormon. No papa. The blogger site is very "promormon", if you will. I had commented on a "profamily" anti-ssm rally she was promoting. I'd actually liked a lot of what she espoused before she went haywire with homophobic statements I couldn't not comment on. Please clarify if I'm understanding you correctly?

[Calm]

I know who you are talking about, she has a lot of good to say but innmy opinion draws lines and questions the faithfulness of those across them in ways way beyond the basic approach of our leaders. Her desire is to defend the Church, but what she is defending seems to me is a small part of it, not the totality and instead of strengthening those who are weak, it has the effect of distancing them from those who should be reaching out with brother and sisterhood, not judgment.