Bishop On Harry Reid

[Wants2know]

Yes. Exactly.

[Kenngo1969]

... (I)f Reid can justify his answers to the questions given in the interview, I could see a bishop being willing to let Reid's answers stand, and trust the Lord to let him sink or swim with them.  In the meantime, I will hope that if the Lord can forgive Harry Reid, there's hope for me.   [Emphasis added by Kenngo1969.]

As for us all, Mahoney!  As for us all! (And thanks for the reminder that none of us, Senator Reid included, should have an intermediary between us and the Lord.  See 2 Nephi 9:41).

[Kenngo1969]

Hi the sometimesaint. The reason you attribute for Cardinal Burke's demotion is debatable to say the least. http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/11/burke-is-schismatic-because-he-was-nice.html

 

"Raymond Burke studied theology in Rome, where Pope Paul VI ordained him to the priesthood in 1975. He returned to his home diocese of La Crosse, Wis., and did a couple of years of chancery work and assisting at the cathedral before returning to Rome to get a doctorate in canon law. He then did another few years of chancery work and teaching in the diocese before being called to the Vatican in 1989 to work in the Apostolic Signatura. Five years later, at only 46 years old, Pope John Paul II appointed him bishop of La Crosse.

 

In the nine years as head of his home diocese, his credentials as a doctrinal conservative and his strange penchant for the pre-Second Vatican Council Mass became more and more pronounced. He reopened the diocese's long-shuttered high school seminary, set about building a retrograde shrine to Our Lady of Guadalupe, and helped establish a weird neo-Tridentine religious community that had a special indult to use the Old Rite. This was a full decade before Pope Benedict XVI would eventually grant unfettered use of the Tridentine Mass throughout the church.

 

But already, Burke had established a strong connection with then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, father of these so-called "Ecclesia Dei Afflicta" communities. They take their unofficial name from Pope John Paul II's 1988 motu proprio, which excommunicated Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and the four bishops he illicitly ordained for his Society of St. Pius X. That document also appealed to Lefebvre's adherents to return to Rome, and Ratzinger, from the start, was a major force in facilitating the establishment of what are now dozens of small communities that were given special permission to use the Old Mass and live practically as if Vatican II never happened."

 

-------------------------------------

 

I bold the parts that in my opinion are the only reasons for Cardinal Burke's demotion. While Rome willingly prays with voodoo witch doctors and prepares to celebrate the 500th anniversary of Martin Luther's 95 Theses, there remains only only one "sect" on the religious landscape of the planet worthy of vilification, excommunication, and final damnation. Everybody is welcome to the kingdom of God excepting those Catholics who adhere to the Traditions of the Fathers, and the Mass of All Time. Cardinal Burke is not my hero, not in the least. But he is an example of the woe that comes to any churchman under the iron fist of Pope Bergoglio who shows sympathy for Catholics who still accept the Catholic Church as it was before 1965.    

I don't want to turn this thread any more political than it already is, and I'm not drawing lines of faithfulness between the two men (that's not for me to do), but I do think the contrast between the approaches of the former Cardinal Bergoglio and President Ezra Taft Benson, respectively, to the highest calling in their respective faiths is interesting: President Benson wore his politics on his sleeve as a member of the Twelve (he served in a Presidential Cabinet during part of his tenure, for goodness' sake!), but when the call came to preside over the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, while many members were worried that he would use his new position to draw lines of faithfulness according to political persuasion, that never happened;  Pope Francis, by contrast, rather than laying his politics aside, appears to have brought them with him into his new calling.  I may not know enough to say for sure, but there is a part of me that wonders if that's such a good thing for the Roman Catholic Church.

[thesometimesaint]

My view is more practical than political. I want to keep the two totally separate as it protects both. I always support ETB in his role of Apostle and Prophet regardless of whether I supported his politics or not. Generally I didn't. I'm more like Treebeard of Lord of the Rings. "Side? I am on nobody's side. Because nobody is on my side".

[BCSpace]

then the dude in LA had no right to say what he did.

 

 

I disagree. 

 

He has every right to express his opinion on the issue even though I agree that he should not have mentioned he was a Bishop in this case. It is a truism that a person found worthy by one Bishop might not be found worthy by another Bishop under the same circumstances. This speaks to what local authority feels is best for their area when there is no exact specification of what worthiness means in a particular case and the Church obviously gives latitude in this area as demonstrated by the wet noodle lashing in the Church's response in this and another recent case involving a Stake President.

[BCSpace]

My view is more practical than political. I want to keep the two totally separate as it protects both.

 

 

 

Which is impossible as the one is an outgrowth of the other. They are inseparably connected and no amount of moralizing can drive them apart.

 

Generally I didn't. I'm more like Treebeard of Lord of the Rings. "Side? I am on nobody's side. Because nobody is on my side".

 

 

Which is why Saruman was able to take advantage of him.

[thesometimesaint]

Which is impossible as the one is an outgrowth of the other. They are inseparably connected and no amount of moralizing can drive them apart.

 

 

Which is why Saruman was able to take advantage of him.

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible...Some books on Deism fell into my hands...It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared much stronger than the refutations; in short I soon became a thorough deist."

-Benjamin Franklin, "Toward the Mystery" (autobiography)

"When the clergy addressed General Washington on his departure from the government, it was observed in their consultation, that he had never, on any occasion, said a word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion, and they thought they should so pen their address, as to force him at length to declare publicly whether he was a Christian or not. They did so. However, the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered every article of their address particularly except that, which he passed over without notice....he never did say a word of it in any of his public papers...Governor Morris has often told me that General Washington believed no more of that (Christian) system than he himself did.

-Thomas Jefferson, diary entry, 2/1/1799

"As the government of the United States of America is not on any sense founded on the Christian Religion, - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of of Musselmen (Muslims), - and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

-Treaty of Tripoli, signed into law by John Adams

"I promised you a letter on Christianity, which I have not forgotten...The delusion...on the clause of the Constitution, which, while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom of religion, had given to the clergy a very favourite hope of an establishment of a particular form of Christianity through the United States; and as every sect believes its own form the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own...the returning good sense of our country threatens abortion of their hopes and they (the preachers) believe that any portion of power confided to me (such as being elected president), will be excerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly: FOR I HAVE SWORN UPON THE ALTAR OF GOD, ETERNAL HOSTILITY AGAINST EVERY FORM OF TYRANNY OVER THE MIND OF MAN."

-Thomas Jefferson, personal letter to Benjamin Rush (all-caps are also on Jefferson memorial)

"Finally, in answer to Fortescue Aland's question why the Ten Commandments should not now be a part of the common law of England we may say they are not because the never were."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, 1814

"I was glad to find in your book a formal contradiction, at length,...that Christianity is part of the common law. The proof of the contrary, which you have adduced, is incontrovertible; to wit, that the common law existed while the Anglo-Saxons were yet pagans, at a time when they had never yet heard the name of Christ pronounced, or knew that such a character had ever existed...What a conspiracy this, between Church and State. Sing Tantarara, rogues all, rogues all. Sing Tantarara, rogues all!"

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Major John Cartwright, 6/5/1824

 

The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine

The Age of Reason: Being an Investigation of True and Fabulous Theology in full was published. The book criticizes institutionalized religion for perceived corruption and political ambition, while challenging the validity of the Bible.

 

Saruman got around Treebeard twice. It didn't turn out so well for Saruman or wormtoungue.