Why Not Now?

[Calm]

I don't see how this addresses the issue of whether more parents that one can consider practicing through their children's growing up years have all grown children practicing than parents who were practicing and have some grown children now practicing and some not.

I combine a previous post of yours in my head with what you were saying then:

"There are as many Lehi-type parents whose children become disillusioned and lost and sometimes bitter or angry, perhaps, as there are non-magnifying their calling-type parents who children become disillusioned lost and sometimes bitter or angry."

And then "Don't know if they are equal either. don't know that we can measure"

That has been measured as shown in the link. I assumed when you were talking about only having anecdotal accounts you were talking about both things you didn't know.

The data suggests that percentage wise at least a Lehi type parent is less likely to have a lost child than one who is less committed to their faith.

Edited November 7, 2014 by calmoriah

[stemelbow]

I combine a previous post of yours in my head with what you were saying then:

"There are as many Lehi-type parents whose children become disillusioned and lost and sometimes bitter or angry, perhaps, as there are non-magnifying their calling-type parents who children become disillusioned lost and sometimes bitter or angry."

And then "Don't know if they are equal either. don't know that we can measure"

That has been measured as shown in the link. I assumed when you were talking about only having anecdotal accounts you were talking about both things you didn't know.

The data suggests that percentage wise at least a Lehi type parent is less likely to have a lost child than one who is less committed to their faith.

it'd be interesting to see this for LDS only. Certainly different religions vary in many ways.

I'm trying to think, of those that I know how many parents with grown children have all of their children in the Church?

my parents? no

My friends' parents? no

All the grown people in my ward whom I know regarding their children? I can think of one couple who had one child who is still active.

Also, it'd be interesting to know how many adults who have left had parents that would be considered active/participating/faithful vs how many such adults had parents who might have been considered less than active/participating/faithful.

[Calm]

"Souls in Transition provides abundant good news about LDS youth. Mormons had a higher retention rate than any other denomination as young people transitioned into adulthood, with 72 percent of the LDS survey participants self-identifying as LDS five years later (109). A majority (59 percent) say their faith is “very important” to them, which ranks LDS youth just below black Protestants (72 percent) and just above conservative Protestants (57 percent) (113). LDS youth have the highest rates of church attendance (60 percent), personal prayer (54 percent), Sabbath observance (71 percent), and daily scripture reading (23 percent). They exhibited somewhat fewer risky behaviors like substance abuse or premarital sex (258). They are less likely to doubt God’s existence and have fewer doubts about religion in general (120, 124). They are more likely to be “committed traditionalists”; and perhaps most fortunately, they are actually more likely to become more religious rather than less religious during the difficult transition to adulthood (166, 126). Yet despite the number of traditionalists, LDS youth are less conf licted about evolution than their conservative Christian peers, with 53 percent believing that God created the world through evolutionary processes (122)."

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/2011/lds-youth-in-an-age-of-transition/

Edited November 7, 2014 by calmoriah

[KevinG]

Despite my horrible meeting attendance, struggles to have family prayer and scripture reading, and other sundry failures of good Mormon parenting, my children have managed to be active and take their faith into their adulthood in spite of me. 

 

Of course I love them, and I love my Father in Heaven.  So there is that.

[Tacenda]

 

 

 

Despite my horrible meeting attendance, struggles to have family prayer and scripture reading, and other sundry failures of good Mormon parenting, my children have managed to be active and take their faith into their adulthood in spite of me. 

 

Of course I love them, and I love my Father in Heaven.  So there is that.

 

Good job KevinG!  What a relief that can be. 

 

In my case, I thought my husband and I were the Lehi parents.  But soon my children started just taking off on a different path.  My oldest was dating a boy in HS, she even had the Bountiful Temple picture hanging on her wall and dreamed of marrying him there.  They broke up and soon she started dating her husband who is from Mexico and not documented, who came here when younger with his brother and sister.  It turns out my daughter really didn't desire the temple as much as I thought apparently, in fact she has no testimony of the church but she stills believes in God and Jesus Christ, and her husband is Catholic. 

 

My other daughter married a RM but not in the temple.  And he doesn't wear the "g's" now and they don't attend the church currently, so who knows in their case.  Another child, a son went on a mission and a few years later met his wife and married recently, she is a member but she held back on going to the temple because she wanted to make sure it was the right thing for her and so they will wait and see.  I'm pretty sure my son is still a believer along with my daughter and RM husband.  I know both sets of in laws wanted their son and daughter to be married in the temple, and probably having pangs for it.  Not so much myself and this is a good thing, I'd be a basket case if I was a TBM, I'm not kidding, a.basket.case!  Though I see how the church can keep you in line, if my daughter with no children had married the RM in the temple and were active, I think they'd have kids by now, it's been 5 years already!!

 

I've got two unmarried children left and the way it looks they won't be active TR holders either.  Looking back I remember my children always commenting that they liked my brothers and sisters better than they liked my husband's.  And my siblings for the most part are inactive, and his are stalwart members, so is there something there?  Maybe they just saw things they liked better in the inactive ones, and took it from there. 

 

I was probably way to strict and stuffy when they were younger, never really let loose, because I tried too hard to be a perfect LDS parent.  Maybe it was because I was inactive for a time before marriage and thought I had to make up for it somehow.  Or maybe my testimony has always been shaky, without realizing it.  Or is it a luck of the draw sort of thing?  Because they don't always come back to the church if you do everything you're suppose to or there is still time for mine to possibly, never say never.  But know plenty of parents that have gone through the same thing. 

[Kenngo1969]

 ... Or is it a luck of the draw sort of thing?  Because they don't always come back to the church if you do everything you're suppose to or there is still time for mine to possibly, never say never.  But know plenty of parents that have gone through the same thing. 

I think you might be more right than you know with that observation.  (I don't know about luck, but I do know that Christ shed his blood so that we (including our children) could make the choices we do, good and bad. )  And to reiterate what I said earlier in the thread, I don't think the intent of, e.g., Elder Holland's address, is to make parents feel guilty when their children stray: I think it is to encourage parents, inasmuch as possible, to stay faithful.  That said, wherever one finds oneself on the spectrum of faith, as the great philosopher, Col. Sherman T. Potter of M*A*S*H once said, "If you ain't where you are, you're no place."  I think God cares less about where we are than about the desires of our heart and about the direction we're moving (however haltingly).

[Scott Lloyd]

There is a line though and I have seen families with overzealous parents who ram the Church down the kids throats and surprise surprise they choked on it and now...they haven't been inside the Church in years

There is truth in what you say.

 

But I do see a qualitative difference between faithfulness and the excessive zeal you are describing here. In my mind, they are not even on the same spectrum.

 

Others here have quite astutely cited Doctrine and Covenants 121. Following the principles therein is part and parcel of faithfulness, in my mind.

 

In fact, the word faithfulness is even used in that section: "that he might know thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death."

[Avatar4321]

I combine a previous post of yours in my head with what you were saying then:

"There are as many Lehi-type parents whose children become disillusioned and lost and sometimes bitter or angry, perhaps, as there are non-magnifying their calling-type parents who children become disillusioned lost and sometimes bitter or angry."

And then "Don't know if they are equal either. don't know that we can measure"

That has been measured as shown in the link. I assumed when you were talking about only having anecdotal accounts you were talking about both things you didn't know.

The data suggests that percentage wise at least a Lehi type parent is less likely to have a lost child than one who is less committed to their faith.

is lehi the best example?

we know little about his life prior to his visions from the Lord. Was he faithful before then? Did he have a testimony and obey the commandments or were his initial visions in the book of Mormon literally his come to Jesus moment?

it's quite possible that lehi could have been a less active for part of his life. And that could be some of the reasons laman and lemuel struggled with their fathers counsel. Older children can be raised very differently than if you don't have a testimony when you raise them and if you did when you raise the younger.

I tend to believe if we follow d&c 121 we will be alright and our children will stay faithful or eventually return more times than not

Edited November 8, 2014 by Avatar4321

[Tacenda]

I think you might be more right than you know with that observation.  (I don't know about luck, but I do know that Christ shed his blood so that we (including our children) could make the choices we do, good and bad. )  And to reiterate what I said earlier in the thread, I don't think the intent of, e.g., Elder Holland's address, is to make parents feel guilty when their children stray: I think it is to encourage parents, inasmuch as possible, to stay faithful.  That said, wherever one finds oneself on the spectrum of faith, as the great philosopher, Col. Sherman T. Potter of M*A*S*H once said, "If you ain't where you are, you're no place."  I think God cares less about where we are than about the desires of our heart and about the direction we're moving (however haltingly).

You're right too, and I'm pretty stagnant.  Need to get out of my straight jacket of believing nothing, and get moving.  I've said I was going to reread the BoM.  But I lied, still haven't reread it.  But maybe my life is supposed to be somewhere else other than the church, good question.  Just need the answers.  

[Guest]

I certainly don't want to take your thread in a direction you don't want it to go, so please feel free to be forthright with me if I (inadvertently) do so.  That talk reminded me of this one:

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1989/04/beware-of-pride?lang=eng

 

I think both Elder Maxwell and President Benson saw some things on the distant horizon of which most of the rest of us, at the time, were unaware.  For what it's worth.

There are many things have changed after they died, things so where at future dates.

[Robert F. Smith]

Fair enough. The well-being of society is probably hard to measure and probably varies for many people.

Yes, and a recent concrete example may help see the point:

 

Lucy Westcott, “Provo, Utah is the Best Place to Live According to Gallup's Ranking of America's Cities,” The Wire, March 25, 2014, online at  http://www.thewire.com/national/2014/03/provo-utah-is-the-best-place-to-live-according-to-gallups-ranking-of-americas-cities/359530/ ,

 

Provo, Utah, has the highest level of well-being of any city in the United States as communities in the West continue to be some of the best places in the country to live. While Provo — also the most religious city in the U.S., which boosts its high levels of well-being levels as religious Americans tend to be healthier — topped the list, the border-spanning Huntington-Ashland metro area of Kentucky and Ohio has the lowest levels of well-being.

 

This is not the only time in which such surveys have singled out Provo.

[Guest]

You're right too, and I'm pretty stagnant.  Need to get out of my straight jacket of believing nothing, and get moving.  I've said I was going to reread the BoM.  But I lied, still haven't reread it.  But maybe my life is supposed to be somewhere else other than the church, good question.  Just need the answers.

Come home and get answers, or remain in darkness. Should you need answers...moving to other faiths is going to be a mistake. I think you will find the Internet is no the gospel and is filled with many faults, turn and listen to the Church and the classes taught therein. We have the answers...one only need love up than information, so it is answers are what to question, one only need look and "put you shoulder to the will". Then lose your life to the service of others...which is the granted to all who how wise to. Your faith has been sacrificed on the altar of doubt. So,come my dear sister. There you will find,peace,and the "Balm of Gilead" to heal you perceived and actual wounds. I so many posts and arrived here, you seem think anything on the net is true, and your faith or former faith must be evil. This website in no the Church....most would agree including the mod team.

[stemelbow]

Yes, and a recent concrete example may help see the point:

 

Lucy Westcott, “Provo, Utah is the Best Place to Live According to Gallup's Ranking of America's Cities,” The Wire, March 25, 2014, online at  http://www.thewire.com/national/2014/03/provo-utah-is-the-best-place-to-live-according-to-gallups-ranking-of-americas-cities/359530/ ,

Provo, Utah, has the highest level of well-being of any city in the United States as communities in the West continue to be some of the best places in the country to live. While Provo — also the most religious city in the U.S., which boosts its high levels of well-being levels as religious Americans tend to be healthier — topped the list, the border-spanning Huntington-Ashland metro area of Kentucky and Ohio has the lowest levels of well-being.

This is not the only time in which such surveys have singled out Provo.

Pretty good, I agree.

life evaluation, emotional health, work environment, physical health, healthy behaviors, and access to basic necessities.

Now it's all going to be telling when we learn what the real index defining well-being is--that is God's index. Might come out the same. Maybe Provo is the most saved city in the world.