JLHPROF Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 If God didn't want me fat he wouldn't have sent me a good cook for a wife. Or made me a foodie...wait - maybe I did that. 1
LOSTONE Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Obesity is only a sin depending on the cause. Greed is a sin - if that leads to obesity then obesity is a sin.Gluttony is a sin - if that leads to obesity then obesity is a sin.Illness is not a sin - if that leads to obesity then obesity is not a sin.Genetic disposition is not a sin - if that leads to obesity then obesity is not a sin. We are all stewards of our bodies. As long as we do the best we can to maintain them there is no sin.Think of it as murder - where you choose to hit someone with your car versus some idiot jumps in front of your car. Only one is sinful. I like the thinking behind this reply. It's logical and makes perfect sense.
Tacenda Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Yes, but thin people can over eat as well.Unless you are suggesting that eating a whole pizza and living on fast food and pop isn't a sin if you are slim but is if you are fat, how would you suggest the church recognize those people who are actually abusing their bodies with food?No not at all! I was just responding to the analogy that you gave pertaining to the obese woman that was raped and how in her mind she tried to ward off any males. I am saying some abuse of alcohol and tobacco, or coffee (caffeine), and drugs are for the same reasons. Some kind of abuse situation. Therefore none should be considered sinning, though too often they are looked at like that. In fact at first I was all gung-ho on reprimanding those that judge people with WoW problems, but matter of fact I hear a lot more people saying some pretty hateful things about overweight people, mostly men. And I'm always defending with the same remarks people have said on here....they can't always control their obesity. It's in their chemical make up or it's a medical condition and medications, but I'll now add in it's overeating for a darn good reason stemming from abuse somewhere. Food can be a drug of choice.Out of posts for now and can't multi quote at the moment but this goes hand in hand with Kenngo's post about the Saviour seeing what we don't see and it's not up to us, we're only told to love others as we would want to be loved. 1
KevinG Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 I am overweight for a combination of reasons. Some of those are selfishness and weakness. Lack of physical activity. A sweet tooth and lack of self discipline. A liberal interpretation of the word of wisdom when it comes to sugary carbonated drinks. I've given up so many indulgent sins in this lifetime, but I haven't quite mastered keeping my personal temple as healthy as it could be. Recent surgery has also put a very large crimp in my plans to get healthier. So in that sense I'm a sinner. I know better and have not completely repented of my bad habits. However, I'm not sure this is sufficient to keep me from the doors of the Temple, as much as tithing, attending my meetings, chastity, sustaining leaders, etc. 1
Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted October 31, 2014 Popular Post Posted October 31, 2014 I am overweight for a combination of reasons. Some of those are selfishness and weakness. Lack of physical activity. A sweet tooth and lack of self discipline. A liberal interpretation of the word of wisdom when it comes to sugary carbonated drinks. I've given up so many indulgent sins in this lifetime, but I haven't quite mastered keeping my personal temple as healthy as it could be. Recent surgery has also put a very large crimp in my plans to get healthier. So in that sense I'm a sinner. I know better and have not completely repented of my bad habits. However, I'm not sure this is sufficient to keep me from the doors of the Temple, as much as tithing, attending my meetings, chastity, sustaining leaders, etc.I'll go even farther than that and declare that it is not sufficient to do those things. Why? Because inspired prophets of God have never declared it to be so. To suggest otherwise is looking beyond the mark and steadying the ark, a sin in and of itself. 5
JLHPROF Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 So in that sense I'm a sinner. I know better and have not completely repented of my bad habits. However, I'm not sure this is sufficient to keep me from the doors of the Temple, as much as tithing, attending my meetings, chastity, sustaining leaders, etc. No, but violation of the Word of Wisdom is enough to disqualify one from the temple.Ironically, nobody follows the word of wisdom as it is written anyway. They pick and choose which bits make you temple worthy. Don't drink a cup of coffee, but enjoy your 12oz steak. Never take a puff of tobacco, but your twenty prescriptions are ok.Our following of the WoW is a joke...it has no bearing on the scripture itself. 1
USU78 Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 No, but violation of the Word of Wisdom is enough to disqualify one from the temple.Ironically, nobody follows the word of wisdom as it is written anyway. They pick and choose which bits make you temple worthy. Don't drink a cup of coffee, but enjoy your 12oz steak. Never take a puff of tobacco, but your twenty prescriptions are ok.Our following of the WoW is a joke...it has no bearing on the scripture itself. Having nursed a diabetic RA/neuralgia sufferer with lymphedema and probable lipedema for 20 years, I guess I have a different perspective: Arguably her switch to diet drinks and diet root beer floats during gestational diabetes at age 40 did more harm to her than anything else she ever did. Will you judge her unworthy and her righteousness or diligence (or lack thereof) a joke?
ERayR Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 No, but violation of the Word of Wisdom is enough to disqualify one from the temple.Ironically, nobody follows the word of wisdom as it is written anyway. They pick and choose which bits make you temple worthy. Don't drink a cup of coffee, but enjoy your 12oz steak. Never take a puff of tobacco, but your twenty prescriptions are ok.Our following of the WoW is a joke...it has no bearing on the scripture itself. But not taking your twenty prescriptions is tantamount to committing suicide. Which is the worse sin, taking your prescriptions or the alternative? 1
ERayR Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Ok, this is going to offend a lot of people! But seriously, think about it! Why is obesity not considered a sin? How is it that a 400 lb food addict/emotional eater can be considered perfectly "worthy" to get a temple recommend and can march right into the celestial kingdom when they have just as little self control over their body as the porn addict, the alcoholic, and the drug addict? If you rationalize that obesity is anything other than a full blown addiction then you are in denial. It has all the same signs and symptoms, is just as damaging to the body if not worse, has the same addiction cycle as any other, etc. etc.. The obese person has no self control, no mastery of the flesh, isn't taking care of their temple, is shortening their mortal life from bad choices, and the list goes on and on. How is that any different from any other addiction that is considered a "sin"? Which is the worse sin obesity or self righteousness? 4
JLHPROF Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Having nursed a diabetic RA/neuralgia sufferer with lymphedema and probable lipedema for 20 years, I guess I have a different perspective: Arguably her switch to diet drinks and diet root beer floats during gestational diabetes at age 40 did more harm to her than anything else she ever did. Will you judge her unworthy and her righteousness or diligence (or lack thereof) a joke? Of course not. I judge the way we view the WoW as very hypocritical. This is no bearing on someone with a medical condition. This is a statement about religious application.
JLHPROF Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 But not taking your twenty prescriptions is tantamount to committing suicide. Which is the worse sin, taking your prescriptions or the alternative? Well, we could TRY and follow God's word, but then we be come Christian scientists or JW's who get sued every 5 minutes. My only point is, either we follow the WoW or we don't.
USU78 Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Of course not. I judge the way we view the WoW as very hypocritical. This is no bearing on someone with a medical condition. This is a statement about religious application. And how do you know how exactly "we" view the WoW? 1
JLHPROF Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 And how do you know how exactly "we" view the WoW? By which parts our leaders ask us to follow and which parts are completely ignored.
toon Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Ok, this is going to offend a lot of people! But seriously, think about it! Why is obesity not considered a sin? How is it that a 400 lb food addict/emotional eater can be considered perfectly "worthy" to get a temple recommend and can march right into the celestial kingdom when they have just as little self control over their body as the porn addict, the alcoholic, and the drug addict? If you rationalize that obesity is anything other than a full blown addiction then you are in denial. It has all the same signs and symptoms, is just as damaging to the body if not worse, has the same addiction cycle as any other, etc. etc.. The obese person has no self control, no mastery of the flesh, isn't taking care of their temple, is shortening their mortal life from bad choices, and the list goes on and on. How is that any different from any other addiction that is considered a "sin"? Ditto the post above re obesity being an extremely complex problem. A couple other points. 1. Is addiction a sin? I can undertand some of the things one might do that lead to an addiction might be considered sinful. But how does a physical or mental state of being, in itself, constitute a sin. 2. I know people who would meet the clinical definiation of obesity who have self control. They're actually quite accomplished on many levels, something that is only achieved through some significant exercise of self control. Saying they have no self control or mastery over the flesh is a unhelpful exaggeration. 2
thesometimesaint Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) By which parts our leaders ask us to follow and which parts are completely ignored. They ask us to follow the whole thing. There are only certain elements that can effect membership status. Edited October 31, 2014 by thesometimesaint
Nevo Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) I found it interesting that Elder Jörg Klebingat, in the last conference, recommended healthy eating habits and exercise as a way of improving our "spiritual confidence" before the Lord. Take responsibility for your own physical well-being. Your soul consists of your body and spirit (see D&C 88:15). Feeding the spirit while neglecting the body, which is a temple, usually leads to spiritual dissonance and lowered self-esteem. If you are out of shape, if you are uncomfortable in your own body and can do something about it, then do it! Elder Russell M. Nelson has taught that we should “regard our body as a temple of our very own” and that we should “control our diet and exercise for physical fitness.” President Boyd K. Packer has taught “that our spirit and our body are combined in such a way that our body becomes an instrument of our mind and the foundation of our character.” Therefore, please use good judgment in what and especially how much you eat, and regularly give your body the exercise it needs and deserves. If you are physically able, decide today to be the master of your own house and begin a regular, long-term exercise program, suited to your abilities, combined with a healthier diet. Spiritual confidence increases when your spirit, with the help of the Savior, is truly in charge of your natural man or woman. As someone who eats at McDonald's and Wendy's 5X a week and never exercises I can't say whether this really works, but I suspect he's right. Apparently all things really are spiritual (D&C 29:34). Edited October 31, 2014 by Nevo 2
USU78 Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 By which parts our leaders ask us to follow and which parts are completely ignored. Are you judging which parts I do and don't follow? Look, the parts that are "enforced" have to do with temple-worthiness and not necessarily overall health. That the Church keeps its nose out of everybody's business on the balance is a testimony to institutional good manners and not a lack of caring about members' health. 4
toon Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 No, but violation of the Word of Wisdom is enough to disqualify one from the temple.Ironically, nobody follows the word of wisdom as it is written anyway. They pick and choose which bits make you temple worthy. Don't drink a cup of coffee, but enjoy your 12oz steak. Never take a puff of tobacco, but your twenty prescriptions are ok.Our following of the WoW is a joke...it has no bearing on the scripture itself. Some current and perhaps official interprations of parts of the Word of Wisdom have little bearing on the scripture either (e.g., the interpretation of hot drinke). In fact, the scripture itself expressly states that it is not a commandment. Yet it has become one, or if not a commandment, at least a standard for temple worthiness. I tend to think that the extent to which the WoW can be considered a commandment is still limited to certain substances, namely, alcohol, tomacco, coffee, tea, and illegal drugs. (Note, even illegal drugs are not mentioned in the scripture.) An argument could be made that the remainder is still not commandment, but rather advice, or wise words.
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 I became obese from medication and I can't take the weight off. I gained 50 pounds from taking the medication Olanzapine. 1
JLHPROF Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 I became obese from medication and I can't take the weight off. I gained 50 pounds from taking the medication Olanzapine. No sin in that.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Lipedema? It's in 11% of the population and would, along with diabetes, account for a very high percentage of all "obesity" diagnoses. And you inherit both, for the most part. Let's not get carried away and call the overweight obese and, therefore, sinful.I am not 100% sure I know exactly what the condition is. Something with the ovaries. But I agree.
ERayR Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Well, we could TRY and follow God's word, but then we be come Christian scientists or JW's who get sued every 5 minutes. My only point is, either we follow the WoW or we don't. And my point is the WoW is not as black and white as some try to make it. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 And my point is the WoW is not as black and white as some try to make it.Originally, it was advisory in nature. It largely still is. But to avoid it being ignored altogether, some aspects of it have been made binding as an institutional measure of faithfulness and worthiness. It is up to the prophet of the Lord, acting under inspiration from Him, to make that determination. No one else has that role or responsibility. 2
Kenngo1969 Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 I became obese from medication and I can't take the weight off. I gained 50 pounds from taking the medication Olanzapine.Psychotropics can do a number on people, VGJ. I'm sure you'd rather not be in that category, but you are an example of how forces beyond a person's control can affect his health, weight, and appearance. The Lord knows your heart.
Avatar4321 Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 No, but violation of the Word of Wisdom is enough to disqualify one from the temple.Ironically, nobody follows the word of wisdom as it is written anyway. They pick and choose which bits make you temple worthy. Don't drink a cup of coffee, but enjoy your 12oz steak. Never take a puff of tobacco, but your twenty prescriptions are ok.Our following of the WoW is a joke...it has no bearing on the scripture itself.funny I don't see anything in the word of wisdom about not eating steak or using prescription medications
Recommended Posts