Why Is Obesity Not A Sin?

[JLHPROF]

funny I don't see anything in the word of wisdom about not eating steak or using prescription medications

 

Really?

 

MEAT

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

 

RECOMMENDING HERBAL REMEDIES (the recommendation against prescription meds came from a Joseph Smith teaching, not the WoW, but they are related).

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

 

 

Related Joseph Smith quote -

Joseph Smith "preached to a large congregation at the Stand, on the Science and practice of Medicine, desiring to persuade the Saints to trust in God when sick, and not in an arm of flesh, and live by faith and not by medicine, or poison, and when they were sick, and had called for the Elders to pray for them, and they were not healed, to use herbs and mild food."

Edited October 31, 2014 by JLHPROF

[Calm]

It troubles me that someone is willing to condemn others as sinners without taking the time to study out the issue sufficiently (as demonstrated by the claim about addictions).

[Avatar4321]

Really?

 

MEAT

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

 

RECOMMENDING HERBAL REMEDIES (the recommendation against prescription meds came from a Joseph Smith teaching, not the WoW, but they are related).

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

 

 

Related Joseph Smith quote -

Joseph Smith "preached to a large congregation at the Stand, on the Science and practice of Medicine, desiring to persuade the Saints to trust in God when sick, and not in an arm of flesh, and live by faith and not by medicine, or poison, and when they were sick, and had called for the Elders to pray for them, and they were not healed, to use herbs and mild food."

you just made my point. Nothing in the word of wisdom prohibiting steak or medication

[Calm]

Psychotropics can do a number on people, VGJ.  I'm sure you'd rather not be in that category, but you are an example of how forces beyond a person's control can affect his health, weight, and appearance.  The Lord knows your heart.

Yep, I got to choose between being able to sleep (literally, without it I was getting about 20 minutes a day sometime in the afternoon at the end of which I'd wake up by my body jerking me out of bed) and being a compulsive eater for several hours after I took the medication. I asked my doctors for other options, they refused. Thankfully attitudes are different in the states towards using alternative drugs and no more compulsion.

[KevinG]

I became obese from medication and I can't take the weight off. I gained 50 pounds from taking the medication Olanzapine.

 

My meds have a similar effect on me.  The women in my household have great struggles with diet and health due to some genetic issues.  

 

I'm guessing someone judging your worthiness by your weight is more of a sin than being heavy.

[JLHPROF]

you just made my point. Nothing in the word of wisdom prohibiting steak or medication

 

Are you blind?  A ban on meat is a ban on steak.  Unless you have some magical steak made of grain?

[KevinG]

To be fair there was a lot of quackery and nonsense in medicine in Joseph's time.  I still think it prudent to combine our faith with the best technology we have for our health.  My medications help my body support my mind and spirit, which makes me a better Saint.  

 

Would you tell someone with a broken leg to heal it by faith alone, or get it set in plaster and have a blessing?

 

Then don't tell someone with an invisible disease or mental illness that they should have more faith.  Some of these sisters who have never experienced clinical depression get off telling the sisters that if they only had faith, and keep their houses clean, they would not get depressed.  I can't tell you how many sisters who suffer from similar conditions sit weeping in the back of the hall, or run out in tears because of this kind of ignorance and unrighteous judgement.

[KevinG]

Are you blind?  A ban on meat is a ban on steak.  Unless you have some magical steak made of grain?

 

Its very culturally bound.  Eat meat sparingly in the South means you take a break from BBQ pork a few times a week and substitute fried chicken instead.  

 

(Yes I agree we rationalize a lot of the word of wisdom away, while acting as though tea is the devils drink.  Nevertheless it shouldn't be a hobby horse to question the worthiness of the Saints because they ingest too much meat).

[Calm]

If God didn't want me fat he wouldn't have sent me a good cook for a wife.

My mom is the best cook in the world, her dishes are mastetpieces of taste, smell and sight. she was also into health and nutrition before it became popular. When she was a teenager she took over cooking for her family so they all lost lots of weight and were healthier. Truly good food, IMO, can leave us satisfied without the desire to overeat if the brain and body are working right. Something else is going on if we can't push back from the table after a reasonable amount of food (a healthy brain tells the body when it has had enough, the right food digesting sends the right signals to the brain).

She also over her life has been very rationally committed to exercise, walking and jogging for a couple of hours a day, etc.

She would also qualify as a sinner according to the opening post though she probably eats on average 1200 or less calories. She was hospitalized with a burst appendix at 7 years old, almost died, had 7 pregnancies after being told she should never have kids by the doctors and rarely relies on medication save when extreme circumstances require (such as shingles). Doctors can't figure out why she can't lose the weight but I would say it probably has something to do with her stomach insides being used as a surgical battlefield several times in her life.

Also probably due to insomnia issues all her life.

Sleep deprivation can cause obesity, if you are overweight, getting enough quality sleep may help losing that weight. If you have the money and can afford it, go to a sleep specialist if you are waking up tired every day and good sleep hygiene practices don't change that.

Edited October 31, 2014 by calmoriah

[KevinG]

Truly good food, IMO, can leave us satisfied without the desire to overeat if the brain and body are working right. Something else is going on if we can't push back from the table after a reasonable amount of food (a healthy brain tells the body when it has had enough, the right food digesting sends the right signals to the brain).

 

It is very hard to afford the money and time to prepare these kinds of foods on a regular basis, when running to and from activities with children, working late to provide for a family, and stretching the family budget across a seemingly endless pile of mortgage, utility, gas, education, and other bills.  

 

We love eating fresh produce from our garden, but the prices of fresh meats, grains and vegetables in the store are going up every day.  Fuel costs don't help.  

[Avatar4321]

Are you blind?  A ban on meat is a ban on steak.  Unless you have some magical steak made of grain?

true but the word of wisdom doesn't ban meat. The scriptures are clear that there is no ban on meat.

[Calm]

But not taking your twenty prescriptions is tantamount to committing suicide. Which is the worse sin, taking your prescriptions or the alternative?

My dad is missing his pituitary gland and has to take a number of medications to replace what he should be getting from that.

No herb can provide what he needs and even if there was one, it is essentially that he be able to tell the amount of the ingredient he gets and gets the same each day. You cannot get a consistent dose of medication through herbs or other natural products unless they are processed enough one might as well go for the man made product.

My drug actually comes in natural form, but the same problem exists plus there are dangerous chemicals present in the herbal form.

Joseph never rejected sensible medicine from what I saw, but it is understandable the caution given the huge amount of snake oil salesmen as well as the state of medicine at the time (Alvin's death was due to poisoning by an 'approved' drug).

Edited October 31, 2014 by calmoriah

[Kenngo1969]

Last time I checked, there was nothing in the Word of Wisdom about—  Oh, wait.  I guess I just missed that in all the times I've read the Word of Wisdom:

 

Doctrine & Covenants 89:22

 

22 And thou shalt use this Word of Wisdom as a brickbat to beat up on all of thy fellow Saints who are less healthy than thou art.

 

Huh.  And to think I missed that all of these years!

[Calm]

It is very hard to afford the money and time to prepare these kinds of foods on a regular basis, when running to and from activities with children, working late to provide for a family, and stretching the family budget across a seemingly endless pile of mortgage, utility, gas, education, and other bills.

We love eating fresh produce from our garden, but the prices of fresh meats, grains and vegetables in the store are going up every day. Fuel costs don't help.

Got to agree there. I have another fun wrinkle in that the times I need to be the most careful I am so tired I can barely stand up straight so I grab something easy and filling that I don't have to prepare...my husband does the shopping and tries to keep easy good food on hand but yogurt and hard boiled eggs three times a day isn't healthy either.

The milk I can digest is twice as expensive and prepared green smoothies up the ante as well.

Edited October 31, 2014 by calmoriah

[Calm]

Morningstar,

 

Your only problem is that you're not eating enough celery!

With a touch of mayo to send the brain a signal so it can believe it is satisfied. . (inside joke people, not real advice though come to think of it a little fat can help kill the cravings much better than a handful of greens...nibble on almonds is real advice, 10 or so a day correlates well with weight loss).

Eating celery makes me hungrier...the feel of it in my stomach gives a greater sensation of emptiness to me. I have to go eat something else to get rid of it. Thankfully lettuce doesn't have that effect. Raw mushrooms do, but cooked ones don't but then they take up tons less room.

[Calm]

Ditto the post above re obesity being an extremely complex problem.....

1. Is addiction a sin? I can undertand some of the things one might do that lead to an addiction might be considered sinful. But how does a physical or mental state of being, in itself, constitute a sin.

I would say addiction itself is not a sin, but in some cases it may be the result of a sin just as having a child is not a sin but may be the result of sinful behaviour.

Anyone who thinks obesity is a simple problem needs to be able to explain why given the amount of research money put towards finding solutions, doctors are still having to work at it. They would have solved it long ago and all been billionaires if it was simple.

Edited October 31, 2014 by calmoriah

[mnn727]

The obese person has no self control, no mastery of the flesh, isn't taking care of their temple,

You have no clue whatsoever. 

 

-----

Also:

We all have our favorite sins, what is yours?

[cemab4y]

Everyone is a sinner. ALL HAVE SINNED. Therefore, everyone who is exalted is a sinner. A forgiven sinner, but a sinner, nevertheless. I have had to struggle with my weight all my life. People come up to me, people I have never met, and tell me "You need to lose weight". I was once at a customs desk in an international airport, and the customs guard told me to lose weight. I asked him, "Are only thin people permitted to enter your country?" .

 

People have called me a "Fat f---" and a "Fat MotherF-----". Just pick any obscenity, put "fat" in front of it, and people have called me that.

 

No one gets to choose the body that they are born into. And no one gets to choose how their body metabolizes food.

 

Get a life.

[mnn727]

 Why is obesity not considered a sin? 

Obesity is not a sin, but judging people unrighteous is a sin. 

Food for thought. (pot meet kettle)

[pogi]

Obesity in and of itself is not a sin and should not be thought of as such as there are various reasons and causes for obesity.  However, it can be the result of an unhealthy lifestyle which I think we all believe God does not smile on.  I think that the OP actually brings up a valid point in that we perhaps justify our lifestyles because the WOW does not specifically prohibit high fructose corn syrup and trans fats. So, some of us eat them carelessly as we order an OJ instead of a coffee with our sausage Mcmuffin with egg and hash browns.

 

The fact is, it is d*** hard to eat healthy in America these days.  It is incredibly expensive, time consuming, and our bodies feel like crap as we transition from junk to healthy foods - a symptom of addiction.  I don't think that these foods should be prohibited, but we would be wise to eat more real foods as God intended.  If the WOW was crafted today, I think it would be worded much differently.  Coffee and tea are like broccoli compared to some of the crap we ingest in our meals everyday that were not around in Joseph Smith's time.  The best rule to follow is a high fiber, low sugar diet.  Don't worry about fats, they are actually good for you.  The American Heart association has debunked the fat myth.  All except for trans fats - avoid those like the plague.  Fat does not make us fat, insulin does.  What triggers insulin?  Sugar (simple carbs, soda, etc). 

Edited October 31, 2014 by pogi

[JLHPROF]

Also:

We all have our favorite sins, what is yours?

 

 

I really do get a little tired of this response to topics.

 

Whenever anyone asks about sin our first response is always "don't judge/motes and beams/favorite sin/all have sinned".  This serves no purpose but to insult people.

When someone raises a doctrinal question as to whether some action or behavior can be considered a sin, the correct response it to look at scripture and see if it's a sin.  Not to question if the asker is a sinner themselves.

 

Yes we all have sin.  Yes, nobody is perfect except Christ.  This still doesn't address the question.

It is NOT Un-Christlike to label a behavior as sinful doctrinally.

Edited October 31, 2014 by JLHPROF

[mnn727]

I really do get a little tired of this response to topics.

 

Whenever anyone asks about sin our first response is always "don't judge/motes and beams/favorite sin/all have sinned".  This serves no purpose but to insult people.

When someone raises a doctrinal question as to whether some action or behavior can be considered a sin, the correct response it to look at scripture and see if it's a sin.  Not to question if the asker is a sinner themselves.

 

Yes we all have sin.  Yes, nobody is perfect except Christ.  This still doesn't address the question.

It is NOT Un-Christlike to label a behavior as sinful doctrinally.

The original question has been answered in multiple threads on this board for that last dozen years or so. Its not a sin, never has been in this or any other dispensation. I assume that is because God knows its not a problem with a simple answer. The O.P. tries to reduce it to a very simplistic thing and its not, never has been, never will be.

 

My answer is just as valid (and perhaps more so) than the O.P.'s question. If you don't like my answer you could always ignore it.

Frankly I don't know why this thread wasn't locked within a few minutes of being opened, but then I'm not a moderator.

[pogi]

 Its not a sin, never has been in this or any other dispensation. I assume that is because God knows its not a problem with a simple answer. 

 

Obesity is not a sin, you are right, but I believe unhealthy lifestyles are - of which I am guilty.  We have been given enough instruction from the prophets to suggest that it is a sin to treat our temples poorly.  We also know that it is not meet that God should command in all things.  This means that we can commit sin without it having to be spelled out for us word for word.  

 

I disagree that it is not a simple answer.  However, I would agree that it is not an easy one.  That should be no justification. 

Edited October 31, 2014 by pogi

[ERayR]

I really do get a little tired of this response to topics.

 

Whenever anyone asks about sin our first response is always "don't judge/motes and beams/favorite sin/all have sinned".  This serves no purpose but to insult people.

When someone raises a doctrinal question as to whether some action or behavior can be considered a sin, the correct response it to look at scripture and see if it's a sin.  Not to question if the asker is a sinner themselves.

 

Yes we all have sin.  Yes, nobody is perfect except Christ.  This still doesn't address the question.

It is NOT Un-Christlike to label a behavior as sinful doctrinally.

 

Don't you think it is an insult to overweight people that the first comment of the post is to assume because one is gravitationally challenged they are automatically a sinner?  Perhaps if said posters were to be a bit more introspective they might recognize their own shortcomings.  Are those so inclined to criticize so dense as to think those who are so afflicted are unaware of their condition?

 

I hereby label said behavior as sinful and un-Christlike.

[mnn727]

 

 

I disagree that it is not a simple answer. 

Then why do so many people struggle with it? Why are billions spent every year to lose weight?

 

the question could also be asked why isn't being skinny a sin? But I notice most people like to judge fat people when they may be healthier than a given skinny person.

Edited October 31, 2014 by mnn727