Non-Member Permissions For Temple Work

[Terran]

I'm wanting to know what the official word is regarding needing permission to do temple ordinances for my non-member ancestors, born after 1904.  I'm aware that no permissions are needed for people who were born more than 110 years ago.  Does anyone know where I can get the official word on whether permissions are required to do the temple work?

[ksfisher]

"Before you perform ordinances for a deceased person born within the last 110 years, obtain permission from the closest living relative. Relatives may not want the ordinances performed or may want to perform the ordinances themselves. The closest living relatives are, in this order: a spouse, then children, then parents, then siblings."

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/members-guide-to-temple-and-family-history-work/chapter-7-providing-temple-ordinances?lang=eng

[Garden Girl]

Hello Terran...

ksfisher has given you the official policy on obtaining permission for temple work... but let me add that each ward/stake has or should have a family history specialist called for the specific purpose of helping ward individuals with their questions and procedures for getting names of family ready for temple work.  Just ask your ward clerk or a member of the bishopric if your ward has a FHS called....  Good luck... I've had many wonderful experiences doing the ordinances for some of my family...

 

GG

[Terran]

Thanks.  I had read the info from the Church website, but it doesn't fully answer my question.  For example, if I want to be baptized for one of my non-member grandfathers, and he and his spouse are deceased, I should next get permission from "children."  My grandfather has 6 living children.  Do I need permission from all of them?  Also, a temple and family history consultant answered my question by talking about the "required" permissions and in the same email said you can do the work without getting permission.  I want to do it the right way, so I'm trying to get the final word on what's correct.

[bluebell]

As i understand it you don't have to get permission from all of them, but if you believe they would be upset then you should talk with the one most likely to object.

[Duncan]

When my Grandma and Grandpa died my Mum didn't ask permission from my Mum's sister to do their work, she just did it. My Aunt has requested us not to do her work when she dies, but we will just to make her mad

Edited October 22, 2014 by Duncan

[ERayR]

When my Grandma and Grandpa died my Mum didn't ask permission from my Mum's sister to do their work, she just did it. My Aunt has requested us not to do her work when she dies, but we will just to make her mad

 

Careful if she hears that she may not leave you her fortune.

[Duncan]

Careful if she hears that she may not leave you her fortune.

 

 

that's true! hahahahha!

[Pahoran]

Thanks.  I had read the info from the Church website, but it doesn't fully answer my question.  For example, if I want to be baptized for one of my non-member grandfathers, and he and his spouse are deceased, I should next get permission from "children."  My grandfather has 6 living children.  Do I need permission from all of them?  Also, a temple and family history consultant answered my question by talking about the "required" permissions and in the same email said you can do the work without getting permission.  I want to do it the right way, so I'm trying to get the final word on what's correct.

If your own parent, the child of your grandfather, is still alive, that person's permission ought to be sufficient. If not, try the oldest aunt/uncle.

My info might not be completely up to date, but I've never heard that you had to get the permission of all living relatives (of equal relationship nearness) only the closest one who knew that person in life.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Pahoran

[thesometimesaint]

If you are a direct line descendent you don't need outside approval.

[Silhouette]

If you are a direct line descendent you don't need outside approval.

This is what I was going to say before I saw that thesometimesaint posted it. It's my understanding too that in these circumstances you don't need to ask anyone about it.

[Silhouette]

This is what I was going to say before I saw that thesometimesaint posted it. It's my understanding too that in these circumstances you don't need to ask anyone about it.

Unfortunately this is incorrect. I went to a Family History Fair at Church on this past Saturday. There I learned that if the deceased person was born in the last 110 years, it is indeed necessary to obtain permission from the closest living relative, even if you are a direct line descendant.

For example, I cannot get my Grandparents' work done on my Father's side because they have children still living (my aunt and uncle). I would need one of them to give me permission to have my Grandparents' work done, even though I'm a direct line descendant.

I hadn't been aware of this until I attended the classes on Saturday.

[Duncan]

Unfortunately this is incorrect. I went to a Family History Fair at Church on this past Saturday. There I learned that if the deceased person was born in the last 110 years, it is indeed necessary to obtain permission from the closest living relative, even if you are a direct line descendant.

For example, I cannot get my Grandparents' work done on my Father's side because they have children still living (my aunt and uncle). I would need one of them to give me permission to have my Grandparents' work done, even though I'm a direct line descendant.

I hadn't been aware of this until I attended the classes on Saturday.

 

 

this is nutty to me, but I guess if the descendants are members then maybe but if the relatives aren't members then why even bother asking them? I'd just go ahead and do it-our family has done this time and again as my Mum in many cases is just as related to these people as anyone else so why not! we don't want Uncle Rufus to go unbaptized because Cousin Gladys is a doofus

[Silhouette]

this is nutty to me, but I guess if the descendants are members then maybe but if the relatives aren't members then why even bother asking them? I'd just go ahead and do it-our family has done this time and again as my Mum in many cases is just as related to these people as anyone else so why not! we don't want Uncle Rufus to go unbaptized because Cousin Gladys is a doofus

I would think there must be some sort of documentation about this, rather than just taking a member's word for it that there's no family left to ask, or that permission was granted. Not sure what form that would come in though, or even if such a documentation exists. That's something I'll have to check into.

I don't like it either, but I'd rather do it the way the Church says to do it rather than sneaking around about it. I can't see getting someone's work done by subterfuge. I'd not want to take dishonesty into the temple. I'd feel terribly guilty about doing my Grandparents' work without following the procedure the Church has set forth.

The problem in my family on that side is that my Grandfather was a Primitive Baptist preacher, as is my living Uncle, and all the kids and grandkids were raised in that faith, so there's no way any of them would give permission for their parents' temple work to be done. So I guess it'll be a long wait before my Grandparents' work is done on that side. It's very frustrating.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Silhouette

[thesometimesaint]

Unfortunately this is incorrect. I went to a Family History Fair at Church on this past Saturday. There I learned that if the deceased person was born in the last 110 years, it is indeed necessary to obtain permission from the closest living relative, even if you are a direct line descendant.

For example, I cannot get my Grandparents' work done on my Father's side because they have children still living (my aunt and uncle). I would need one of them to give me permission to have my Grandparents' work done, even though I'm a direct line descendant.

I hadn't been aware of this until I attended the classes on Saturday.

 

I am the closest living ancestor of my grandparents who is a member of the Church(only one very old aunt is still alive, and not a member of the Church). I don't need permission from anyone to do their work.

[Calm]

CFR that you have precedence as a grandchild over the wishes of a living child of your grandparents (policies change and they've gotten stricter) if your grandparents were born in 1904 or later.

If you are suggesting you don't need to seek permission because they aren't members of the Church, big CFR. The permissions were never about the right to have the first go at temple work but to avoid family conflict between those who were members and those who weren't.

From 2014:

http://broadcast.lds.org/elearning/FHD/Local_Support/Consultant/NewTraining/ClassOutline-Lesson5.pdf

"For persons born in the last 110 years, the following requirements must be met:

 The person must have been deceased for at least one year.

 You must either be one of the closest living relatives, or you must obtain

permission from one of the closest living relatives. If you are not a spouse, child, parent, or sibling of the deceased, please obtain permission from one of the closest living relatives before doing the ordinances. The closest living relatives are an undivorced spouse (the spouse to whom the individual was married when he or she died), an adult child, a parent, or a brother or sister."

Grandchild is not listed as someone who doesn't need permission if there is a living adult child, member or not.

If you are speaking to your own circumstances because your grandparents were born before 1904, as at least one of mine was, you should have added that info to avoid misleading others. If you are claiming that grandchildren still dont have to seek permission from aunts and uncles, the CFR still stands that this is current policy.

Edited October 29, 2014 by calmoriah

[Calm]

Ok, I was wrong about first go at but it is in addition to, not instead of:

"Before you perform ordinances for a deceased person born within the last 110 years, obtain permission from the closest living relative. Relatives may not want the ordinances performed or may want to perform the ordinances themselves. The closest living relatives are, in this order: a spouse, then children, then parents, then siblings."

This is from 2012. Again grandchildren are not listed and no condition that it only matters if they are members.

https://www.lds.org/manual/members-guide-to-temple-and-family-history-work/chapter-7-providing-temple-ordinances?lang=eng

Edited October 29, 2014 by calmoriah

[Storm Rider]

I am the closest living ancestor of my grandparents who is a member of the Church(only one very old aunt is still alive, and not a member of the Church). I don't need permission from anyone to do their work.

 

I guess there is not anyone alive to ask for permission is another way to say it?  

[Calm]

I guess there is not anyone alive to ask for permission is another way to say it?

No, he said he had an aunt that was living...so an adult child. You still have to ask permission if they are nonmembers. Edited October 29, 2014 by calmoriah

[Storm Rider]

No, he said he had an aunt that was living...so an adult child.

 

That aunt has the primary relationship.  If one is going to do the work then that individual's permission is required....unless you are trying to ignore the rules.  

[Pahoran]

I am the closest living ancestor of my grandparents who is a member of the Church(only one very old aunt is still alive, and not a member of the Church). I don't need permission from anyone to do their work.

 

I'm still trying to get my head around how you can be an *ancestor* of your grandparents.  Is it you or one of your grandchildren who does the time travel to pull that off?

 

But apart from that, Cal is right.  Your aunt, presuming that she is a child of the grandparents in question, is their closest living relative.  You need her permission.

 

Mind you, if she isn't willing to provide it, you can just wait a while.

 

Regards,

Pahoran

[Calm]

TSS is older than I am by at least a few years so there is a good chance the younger than 110 years rule doesn't apply because my youngest grandparents were just a few years after 1904 iirc, but it is possible that his parents and grandparents were much younger than mine when they had their kids (they were 28 for me and grandparents were about the same age) so who knows (save him at this point).

[Duncan]

Just on the phone now with the My Mum and she hasn't ever sought permission from any living relatives to do their work. Most of the time she doesn't really know how to get ahold of them, my dad's family in totally in the wind and she went ahead and did it anyways. She submitted these people's names to do, she and we have physically sat through the sessions to do people but a lot of the time they have been dead for a hundred or more years. Some people she says the oldest living relative wouldn't approve so she is saying would I feel guilty for doing their work without the non member relative knowing about it? or feeling guilty for not doing the work and the relative is holding back the person's salvation, so she did it and let God figure it out. So, she has done a lot of work for her direct ancestors and then her aunts and uncles without permission but again, their kids are dead or don't know where they live anymore or whatever. 

[Calm]

I don't believe someone can hold back another's salvation. I don't believe the Church would have the policies it does if that was really true.

[Silhouette]

I am going to our Family History Center tomorrow and see who all is on my family's fan chart on the Family Search website. I'm not sure how far back it goes, but if there's anyone on it who was born more than 110 years ago, I'm going to be starting procedures to get their temple work done.