ERayR Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Mortality is hard and painful enough, I wouldn't want to go through with it twice. Reincarnation does not appeal to me. I'd rather stay resurrected as body and flesh in perfect form and feel no more physical pain or illness. What appeals to me so much about the afterlife is the end of physical pains forever. Read post # 222
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 But ERay, how exactly do you bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man? What role would we play and what would be our job functions for eternity?
KevinG Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Well, the problem with this theory is that it means that we are up for TWO ROUNDS of MORTALITY. The one we are in now and then again as Adam or Eve of another world. There is not much scripture to support that idea. Furthermore, haven't we partaken of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil? This theory means that we would have to partake of the that fruit again! That is probably why the Adam-God theory has lost favour amongst the brethren/leaders of the LDS church and also the church at large. -stephen Wrong. You are reading things into this that I've never heard a Latter-day Saint teach. Stick around, read the discussions I referenced, then try to discuss in good faith. Preaching from anti-Mormon polemic positions doesn't really float well around here. 2
JLHPROF Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Well, the problem with this theory is that it means that we are up for TWO ROUNDS of MORTALITY. The one we are in now and then again as Adam or Eve of another world. There is not much scripture to support that idea. Furthermore, haven't we partaken of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil? This theory means that we would have to partake of the that fruit again! That is probably why the Adam-God theory has lost favour amongst the brethren/leaders of the LDS church and also the church at large. -Stephen 1. I don't see why two rounds of mortality is an issue. If we accept the symbolism of the temple I think that it's pretty much there.2. You are probably correct as to why it has lost favor, although personally I think public perception has just as much to do with it. 1
ERayR Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 But ERay, how exactly do you bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man? What role would we play and what would be our job functions for eternity? First understand that it is 180 degree outlook . It is a give not a get philosophy. As for what you do. Well just shoow up for work every day and read the job board for your assignment.
KevinG Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) I plan to create life then love it. Kind of like I do here. Only with a larger sphere of influence. Edited November 10, 2015 by KevinG
MiserereNobis Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Oh for heaven's sake... I was genuinely helping you get up to speed on the LDS discussion and thoughts on the matter of Deification. My personal belief is we are destined to be joint heirs with Christ, and all that implies. The King Follet sermon is a very good look into our beliefs. And while not canonical doctrine it is very inspired and a foundation of many LDS beliefs. Sorry -- I guess I overreacted to ERayR saying that I wouldn't understand. I have read the King Follet discourse, but it's probably been a year or two. I feel like I have a basic grasp on the issues and I'm definitely not here to argue them (Mormons and mainstream Christians disagree - duh! ). In my understanding, these ideas are not official doctrine (like you said -- not canonical doctrine). I was mainly responding to Tony Frank's bold statement that they are core doctrine and not speculation and I wanted to see what other LDS thought on it, that's all. Sorry to have caused a ruckus
MiserereNobis Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 I answered. Did you read it? I did. It is a very vague answer -- I've read enough to know what's behind the words you are using. What you say doesn't seem all that controversial, but often the details behind what you say become controversial. Sometimes, though, the details are best left as "mystery," which is not a bad thing at all
MiserereNobis Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) As a tangent, I'd honestly prefer the Catholic Beatific Vision. Not because I'm Catholic, but because I really don't want to spend eternity working. Showing up and looking at a job board... yikes! Will I have a punch card, too? (yes, I know it was said in jest). I'd rather dwell in a mystical union with God and experience the perfection of happiness and bliss. But I guess I'm lazy like that, ha. mfbukowski said on another thread that if that's what I want, that's probably what I'll get. Good enough for me Edited November 10, 2015 by MiserereNobis
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 ERay, I hope I even get the job, but I will definitely show up for work every day and try to do my best if exalted. Thankfully I'll have a spouse who will equally work with me to do the job.
KevinG Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Eternal parenting and gardening isn't for everyone. We will need harp players too.
ERayR Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 As a tangent, I'd honestly prefer the Catholic Beatific Vision. Not because I'm Catholic, but because I really don't want to spend eternity working. Showing up and looking at a job board... yikes! Will I have a punch card, too? (yes, I know it was said in jest). I'd rather dwell in a mystical union with God and experience the perfection of happiness and bliss. But I guess I'm lazy like that, ha. mfbukowski said on another thread that if that's what I want, that's probably what I'll get. Good enough for me I am not so much for sitting on clouds playing harps and it gets boring with nothing to do.
SeekerB Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 I believe we can become like God and have stewardship over much, including planets, but who exactly will "own" them, I am unsure. The United Order is in place in the universe. I don't know what the details are.
SeekerB Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Only one question, but why? I know that I would never want this. Perhaps when the veil is lifted you will recall that you have wanted to be worthy of something like this for untold thousands of years, as have all of us who wanted to be like our Father in Heaven.
ERayR Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 I believe we can become like God and have stewardship over much, including planets, but who exactly will "own" them, I am unsure. The United Order is in place in the universe. I don't know what the details are. Again, it is not about ownership. It is about helping other down the path to immortality and eternal life.
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Eray I get its that but how exactly is that done in heaven? I still would like to know what our specific roles are. Edited November 10, 2015 by VideoGameJunkie
ERayR Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Eray I get its that but how exactly is that done in heaven? I still would like to know what our specific roles are. I don't know any place where that is written. It is just not something I worry about. I do suspect that it will take some time to become a project supervisor.
stephenpurdy Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Either that or the protestant influence was just too much. I don't think that is it. There is no scripture to support the idea of two mortal probations. No scripture to support having lost the knowledge of good and evil after having gone through mortality once. No scripture of having to give up an immortal and resurrected body for a mortal one. No scriptures either from the Bible or LDS scriptures. So, it doesn't stand up very well. I think that the model I posted here stands up better , but I fully admit that these are speculations. -stephen Edited November 11, 2015 by stephenpurdy
Anijen Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 My planet is going to be full of trees, lakes, streams, mountains, and wildlife. BTW the trees will grow fruit that will taste exactly like steak, bacon, ribs, etc..It is where I will go to relax (as if I wouldn't already be relaxed in heaven). Beautiful doctrine
ERayR Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 I don't think that is it. There is no scripture to support the idea of two mortal probations. No scripture to support having lost the knowledge of good and evil after having gone through mortalitity once. No scripture of having to give up an immortal and resurrected body for a mortal one. No scriptures either from the Bible or LDS scriptures. So, it doesn't stand up very well. I think that the model I posted here stands up better , but I fully admit that these are speculations. -stephen The Adam and Eve narrative has them in the garden as immortal and only became mortal through the partaking of the fruit. Do you consider the temple endowment as scripture? 1
ERayR Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 My planet is going to be full of trees, lakes, streams, mountains, and wildlife. BTW the trees will grow fruit that will taste exactly like steak, bacon, ribs, etc..It is where I will go to relax (as if I wouldn't already be relaxed in heaven). Beautiful doctrine But what will it do to further God's work to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. You are still looking at it from the egocentric point of view.
Anijen Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 But what will it do to further God's work to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. You are still looking at it from the egocentric point of view.yup, I gotta repent. But eternity is a long time, becoming like my Father in Heaven although a very long time away is still a beautiful doctrine. 1
ERayR Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 yup, I gotta repent. But eternity is a long time, becoming like my Father in Heaven although a very long time away is still a beautiful doctrine. Yes that it surely is.
stephenpurdy Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Wrong. You are reading things into this that I've never heard a Latter-day Saint teach. Stick around, read the discussions I referenced, then try to discuss in good faith. Preaching from anti-Mormon polemic positions doesn't really float well around here. What do you mean? What did I say that you have never heard a Latter-Day Saint teach? -Stephen
stephenpurdy Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Hey Stephen, which General Authority? Marion G Romney. He is the only one who I have seen say that God the Father was a "saved soul". I simply think that he is wrong. Somehow, it doesn't seem like he read the King Follett discourse in its full context ... so it isn't just a problem with anti-Mormons. Sometimes LDS take things out of context as well. Again, here is the context- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The scripture Joseph initially referenced concerning this topic is John 5:19:"I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever the Father doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."Joseph says, that (like Jesus) God the Father is an exalted man in form and appearance, "If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with Him, as one man talks and communes with another."Joseph was teaching that God was a man "like us" in the same sense that Jesus Christ was a man "like us". He said:"we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did;"John Chapter 5 verse 24-26 states:"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself"Now, Joseph Smith says this in the King Follett discourse:"Scriptures inform us that Jesus said, As the Father hath power in Himself, even so hath the Son power--to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious--in a manner to lay down His body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again."Joseph also explained:"What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. My Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to My Father, so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt Him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children." All of the LDS doctrine concerning the idea of God the Father once being a man who lived on an Earth originated from Joseph Smith, and any insight on detail was given by the King Follett discourse. And the King Follett discourse describes God the Father as having lived as Jesus Christ did - (Also described as Jesus as following the same path as God the Father.) So, any discussion on the matter should always be understood in that context, and originally from that source. -Stephen 1
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