CA Steve Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) If homosexuality does not, by itself doom the marriage then if the marriage falls apart it could be the fault of either party.If heterosexuality does not, by itself, doom the marriage then if the marriage falls it could be the fault of either party. Is this statement any different than yours? If so then I suspect you are going into the poll with preconceived notions about the very question you are trying to ask. Edited June 20, 2014 by CA Steve
mfbukowski Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) Can someone who is homosexual have a successful marriage with someone of the opposite sex? It seems that one of the many reasons that people are advocating SSM is that they claim it is not possible to have a successful marriage and a meaningful relationship with someone of the opposite sex. Is this true? Can there be a successful (opposite sex) marriage if one or both parties experiences same sex attraction?As usual, it all hinges on definitions, in this case, of the word "successful". That's why I never answer these polls. Too ambiguous. What I honestly don't understand is someone being married for 30 years and raising a bunch of kids - obviously implying "successful" heterosexual activity, and then making the decision that they have been gay all along, leaving their family and changing lifestyles. Someone please explain. How is that different, morally, from leaving your wife and getting a "trophy wife" or mistress, and how is it morally justifiable because one is now "gay"? Edited June 20, 2014 by mfbukowski
mfbukowski Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Just out of curiosity, how many people considered this question both ways? A gay man successfully married to a straight woman and a gay woman successfully married to a straight man? I'll admit that at first I was only thinking of the first option and I bet the propensity to do so is directly related to age. I am not sure if it means anything, but i suspect there is a lot more bias against the first option than the second.So what?
mfbukowski Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Sexual attraction is not always an "either/or" proposition. Someone who identifies as gay, may also be attracted to the opposite sex.And I would note that my parents who are both in their late 80's are still going strong in their marriage.Very important information for all of us, I am sure.
mfbukowski Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Can you have a successful marriage without sex at all? 1
california boy Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 As usual, it all hinges on definitions, in this case, of the word "successful". That's why I never answer these polls. Too ambiguous. What I honestly don't understand is someone being married for 30 years and raising a bunch of kids - obviously implying "successful" heterosexual activity, and then making the decision that they have been gay all along, leaving their family and changing lifestyles. Someone please explain. How is that different, morally, from leaving your wife and getting a "trophy wife" or mistress, and how is it morally justifiable because one is now "gay"?I was one of those guys. I got married because my church leaders told me that if I married, then the SSA would gradually disappear. That ended up being a falsehood. It never went away. At some point early in my marriage, I knew that trusting church leaders was the wrong decision. But by then I had children. I felt like I had made a commitment to my children to be a father. I didn't want to be a weekend dad. So I stayed in the marriage until the last child was almost finishing highschool. So that, at least, is my reason for staying in a marriage that I always knew would end someday. It has noting to do with a trophy wife. It has to do with raising children and being a responsible parent. 1
Danzo Posted June 20, 2014 Author Posted June 20, 2014 If heterosexuality does not, by itself, doom the marriage then if the marriage falls it could be the fault of either party. Is this statement any different than yours? If so then I suspect you are going into the poll with preconceived notions about the very question you are trying to ask. No significant difference, between questions. I have just often heard that when a (opposite sex) marriage fails and one of the parties identifies as Homosexual, than there needs to be no other explanation for the reasons that the marriage failed (it was doomed from the start). However, if that is not reason in and of itself, than the argument "I was gay" should not be used as an excuse to end the marriage.
california boy Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 I think the best answer to this question is could YOU be in a marriage with someone of the same sex. If your answer is yes, then yes a gay person could be in a marriage with someone of the opposite sex. If the answer for you is no, then that marriage will probably not work. The answer is different for everyone. So how about you? Could you have a successful marriage with someone of the same sex? Does it kinda gross you out? Would you feel a bit immoral about having sex with someone of the same sex? Would you feel like the relationship is "unnatural"? Would you feel dishonest pretending that you are gay when you know you are not? Because those are the exact same feelings a gay person has when he marries someone of the opposite sex. If you can answer those questions honestly about yourself, then you will have your answer. 2
california boy Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Can you have a successful marriage without sex at all? Of course. But marriage is not all about sex is it. In fact, I would say that sex is way down the line of important things in a marriage. I think there are very few gay couples that choose to marry because they want to have sex. 1
Danzo Posted June 20, 2014 Author Posted June 20, 2014 I was one of those guys. I got married because my church leaders told me that if I married, then the SSA would gradually disappear. That ended up being a falsehood. It never went away. At some point early in my marriage, I knew that trusting church leaders was the wrong decision. But by then I had children. I felt like I had made a commitment to my children to be a father. I didn't want to be a weekend dad. So I stayed in the marriage until the last child was almost finishing highschool. So that, at least, is my reason for staying in a marriage that I always knew would end someday. It has noting to do with a trophy wife. It has to do with raising children and being a responsible parent. Don't want to make this too personal, but do you think the marriage was a failure because of who you were? If your wife had behaved differently (or was a different woman), could it have worked?
Gray Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Care to elaborate? I seem to recall a greater than 70% failure rate for mixed orientation marriages, although I don't remember where I read it Mutual attraction has to be a part of any healthy marriage
USU78 Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Can you have a successful marriage without sex at all? I'm wondering how somebody could answer that without throwing a spouse under the bus as mean-spirited, selfish, or dysfunctional?
USU78 Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Don't want to make this too personal, but do you think the marriage was a failure because of who you were? If your wife had behaved differently (or was a different woman), could it have worked? How could an answer to this question be reliable?
california boy Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) Don't want to make this too personal, but do you think the marriage was a failure because of who you were? If your wife had behaved differently (or was a different woman), could it have worked?It had nothing to do with my wife. We are still great friends. We always have been. She is really a wonderful person. In no way was it something that she did or didn't do. My wife deserved someone that could love her in a way I never could as much as I did. When I came out to my faimily it was in fact her that innitiated the divorce proceedings. I personally could not do it. I thought that maybe we could just live in separate bedrooms for the rest of our marriage. She was brave enough to realize that wasn't the kind of marriage she wanted. Edited June 20, 2014 by california boy 1
Danzo Posted June 20, 2014 Author Posted June 20, 2014 How could an answer to this question be reliable? It would at least be a reliable point of view.
california boy Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 I seem to recall a greater than 70% failure rate for mixed orientation marriages, although I don't remember where I read it Mutual attraction has to be a part of any healthy marriage I once read an article in Sunstone about 10 years ago written by a BYU professor that worked with gay couples. He reported that of the 300 couples that he wokred with, after 5 years only 3 of those couples were still together. I have since tried to find the article again and have been unable to. If anyone has a reference for it, I would love to read it again. I think the work he did is probably the reason the church changed it's position on this issue. 1
USU78 Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 I once read an article in Sunstone about 10 years ago written by a BYU professor that worked with gay couples. He reported that of the 300 couples that he wokred with, after 5 years only 3 of those couples were still together. I have since tried to find the article again and have been unable to. If anyone has a reference for it, I would love to read it again. I think the work he did is probably the reason the church changed it's position on this issue. 1% of the 1-3%? Pretty poor shootin' there, Tex.
halconero Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 In a minority of cases, yes. Generally I'd say it's near impossible. I agree with the Church's current standpoint that it should be used as a way to decrease same-sex attraction or create opposite-sex attraction.
Danzo Posted June 20, 2014 Author Posted June 20, 2014 I once read an article in Sunstone about 10 years ago written by a BYU professor that worked with gay couples. He reported that of the 300 couples that he wokred with, after 5 years only 3 of those couples were still together. I have since tried to find the article again and have been unable to. If anyone has a reference for it, I would love to read it again. I think the work he did is probably the reason the church changed it's position on this issue. This kind of study has its limits.Remember that usually only marriages that are in trouble see a therapist. 1
Danzo Posted June 20, 2014 Author Posted June 20, 2014 In a minority of cases, yes. Generally I'd say it's near impossible. I agree with the Church's current standpoint that it should be used as a way to decrease same-sex attraction or create opposite-sex attraction. The act of marrying itself doesn't change anyone. the old "He'll change when I marry him" has been discredited many times.
CV75 Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 I say "yes", depending on how the couple defines success of course.
mfbukowski Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 I'm wondering how somebody could answer that without throwing a spouse under the bus as mean-spirited, selfish, or dysfunctional?Someone could say that they have not had sex in 20 years because nothing works any more, but that they love each other and have a successful marriage. Viagra is not for everyone.
mfbukowski Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 I was one of those guys. I got married because my church leaders told me that if I married, then the SSA would gradually disappear. That ended up being a falsehood. It never went away. At some point early in my marriage, I knew that trusting church leaders was the wrong decision. But by then I had children. I felt like I had made a commitment to my children to be a father. I didn't want to be a weekend dad. So I stayed in the marriage until the last child was almost finishing highschool. So that, at least, is my reason for staying in a marriage that I always knew would end someday. It has noting to do with a trophy wife. It has to do with raising children and being a responsible parent.Thanks for the answer, it has helped a lot. I personally would not take that action, but it is now easier for me to see how some would.
mfbukowski Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 I think the best answer to this question is could YOU be in a marriage with someone of the same sex. If your answer is yes, then yes a gay person could be in a marriage with someone of the opposite sex. If the answer for you is no, then that marriage will probably not work. The answer is different for everyone. So how about you? Could you have a successful marriage with someone of the same sex? Does it kinda gross you out? Would you feel a bit immoral about having sex with someone of the same sex? Would you feel like the relationship is "unnatural"? Would you feel dishonest pretending that you are gay when you know you are not? Because those are the exact same feelings a gay person has when he marries someone of the opposite sex. If you can answer those questions honestly about yourself, then you will have your answer.I don't want to get too graphic, but I could not pretend for one minute to be homosexual if that was what was required biologically to make babies. I could never have children pretending to be homosexual. 1
california boy Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 I don't want to get too graphic, but I could not pretend for one minute to be homosexual if that was what was required biologically to make babies. I could never have children pretending to be homosexual.Most gays, especially outside the church never marry. Social pressure, religious beliefs and not wanting to disappoint family can be very strong motivators.
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