Faith Crisis, How To We Get People To The Right Place

[DBMormon]

Looking at things from an empirical rational viewpoint is not poisoning.

 

Lives do not disintegrate without the church

 

If people say they are happier you should take them at their word and not try to put your interpretation of happiness on them

 

If it takes that much energy to convince people everything is OK when it seems so wrong to them, then something is not right.

 

Why does anyone assume people in a faith crisis need to be restored to faith. Maybe there is a better path

 

 

Monster, I am ok with this view with one caveat.  I would prefer to correct as many fasle assumptions first, and then see if there is still room for faith.  If not, and they move on, God Bless them.  But if after they shift paradigms to a more realistic understanding and they then see room for faith, then great.... either way that faith transition and paradigm shift (examing one's assumptions) are worth it regardless of the final outcome

 

edited to add:  Many people who leave think they have figured it out and they have discovered what those who stay haven't.... In some ways that is true.  They have discovered additonal history and facts.... but it also misses the point as well, as they in most cases still hold the same false assumptions the believer holds, and now with the additional information, those assumptions no longer work.  

Edited April 5, 2014 by DBMormon

[CMZ]

You don't have to Mormon to be part of the church of the lamb. Think of it less as people going astray and instead as moving to pastures new.

 

There's a difference between being of the honorable people of the earth and yet not knowing the truth of the gospel yet and knowing the truth then leaving it. Let's not perceive removing our grasp from the iron rod and wandering off into the mists of darkness as anything other than it is. (Of course, there are many within the Church who have not been taught as well as they should have by those who should have taught them better, and they may well "go astray" with less culpability than others do.)

Edited April 5, 2014 by CMZ

[readstoomuch]

I understand that individuals go and then may come back. They may also go onto another belief system within Christianity or religion. At this point with some of my family, I wish they were still engaged with Christ. Unfortunately, like many who are going through a faith crisis in this modern day, they leave God completely. Though their lives do not necessarilly disintegrate without the Church, they do seem to end up in wayward paths without Christ or God in some form. I very much respect the atheist who does right because they recognize it as a greater good, even without the typical mindset religion helps set up concerning right and wrong.

[canard78]

There's a difference between being of the honorable people of the earth and yet not knowing the truth of the gospel yet and knowing the truth then leaving it. Let's not perceive removing our grasp from the iron rod and wandering off into the mists of darkness as anything other than it is. (Of course, there are many within the Church who have not been taught as well as they should have by those who should have taught them better, and they may well "go astray" with less culpability than others do.)

I refer you to my blog post on the first page. I don't need membership in a human created organisation to embrace the gospel of Christ and I don't need to depend on the culturally influenced ideas of other men to approach God.

While I appreciate the frameworks and ideas I find in Mormonism, it is not the final word in God's truth. I embrace the community of positive people also trying to be grow in godliness but I don't consider it to be the only faith tradition that offers this opportunity. I try to keep the character forming commitments I've made in a Mormon faith practice but I don't consider them to be God's ultimate standard of behaviour.

I don't believe in a God who seeks obedient children but in optimal people.

Like I said, of you're interested in a broader understanding of why and how I believe this (including answers to prayer in the temple), read the blog.

Edited April 6, 2014 by canard78

[Tacenda]

Monster, I am ok with this view with one caveat. I would prefer to correct as many fasle assumptions first, and then see if there is still room for faith. If not, and they move on, God Bless them. But if after they shift paradigms to a more realistic understanding and they then see room for faith, then great.... either way that faith transition and paradigm shift (examing one's assumptions) are worth it regardless of the final outcome

edited to add: Many people who leave think they have figured it out and they have discovered what those who stay haven't.... In some ways that is true. They have discovered additonal history and facts.... but it also misses the point as well, as they in most cases still hold the same false assumptions the believer holds, and now with the additional information, those assumptions no longer work.

I feel like I'm physically staying but mentally checked out, well that's probably dementia , but if it isn't, it has been extremely hard to get back to my believing mode. Edited April 6, 2014 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/  

 

Kick Starter Project has begun- Help raise $3,000 for Mormon Discussion

 

You may be unaware, but there are hundreds of thousands of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) who are having a hard time,  losing faith over difficult history, conflicting teachings, and differing opinions on social issues.  Please check out the project at Kick starter and help us raise $3000.  Also check out the rewards as well!!!! 

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1715601630/mormon-discussion-podcast-leading-with-faith-podcast

 

This is a great cause for all you faithful and doubters out there.  Bill has had some great interviews, and they can't continue w/o our support!!!

[Flyonthewall]

My biggest faith crisis issue comes, not from difficult history, but from feeling alone in my troubles.

To seek help from the Lord when it is very much needed, but to be met with silence.

To see the Lord help others, but not me. To feel forgotten and forsaken.

It is a bad frame of mind to be in...

[ERayR]

The best and maybe the only thing we can do is to convince them to listen to the promptings of the Holy Ghost, even if he answers in a different manner than they expect, instead of succumbing to the sophistries of the opposition.

[readstoomuch]

I have listened to one of Bill`s podcasts and read his writings here. How do most people hear about him? If it is from Mormondiscussions I haven`t been that impressed by that site.

[Tacenda]

I have listened to one of Bill`s podcasts and read his writings here. How do most people hear about him? If it is from Mormondiscussions I haven`t been that impressed by that site.

Two different entities, nothing whatsoever to do with each other. When he first made the podbean up, and deciding a name I was concerned people would think it was linked with the mormondiscussions board, and turns out it has happened now.

[Avatar4321]

All we can do is invite them to go to the Lord and learn from Him. That's the only thing any of us can do. We do this with persuasion, with long suffering, gentleness, and meekness, etc.

 

 

Trust in the Lord, seek the Spirit, lead others to do the same, that's all we can do.

[readstoomuch]

So, if I am going to shell out some money to Bill, then how do people hear about him? Especially those in faith crisis.

As far as people needing to depend on the spirit, I agree. The problem for me, when I was sitting there in crisis, I needed some answers to help bring me off of the ledge.

[Avatar4321]

The answers come from God though. Until we are ready to jump off the ledge in faith, we wont usually get the answers we need.

[Tacenda]

So, if I am going to shell out some money to Bill, then how do people hear about him? Especially those in faith crisis.

As far as people needing to depend on the spirit, I agree. The problem for me, when I was sitting there in crisis, I needed some answers to help bring me off of the ledge.

He has a FB account, he posts all of his podcasts on here, NOM, Staylds.com, and Fairmormon, that probably covers it.

I agree, sometimes it does feel like you want to jump. And need answers, but they just aren't there.

Logically the church just doesn't seem to have a leg to stand on, but to me, spiritually it does.

[Palerider]

The arrogance (probably unrealized) of some of the posts here is pretty amazing. The flip side of "victim mentality" is the criminal who attempts to blame the victim for their crime. Or at the very least stick up for and give aid to those who have committed the crime.

 

When someone wants to tell me that all can be answered by the parable of the sower, I want to say, "Or maybe it all can be answered by Matt. 24:24

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

 

Just because a person receives guidance from Heavenly Father doesn't automatically equate to being in the true church. I still receive heavenly promptings just as I did before I left the church. I still pray daily for inspiration. I still know the Gospel is true and that Jesus is the Christ. I don't adhere to the "Evangelical" path nor do I reject out of hand all of the teachings of Mormonism. Mormonism is a good place to learn "the Law". But it also leads one beyond the law and "teaches for doctrine the traditions of men".

 

Mormonism, just like all other Christian religions, is an amalgamation. I believe there is going to be a "restoration", but there is nothing  in the scriptures that indicates that restoration will take place in the way the Mormons think it did.  

 

I try to give both credit where credit is due.  

[Brian 2.0]

So, if I am going to shell out some money to Bill, then how do people hear about him? Especially those in faith crisis.

As far as people needing to depend on the spirit, I agree. The problem for me, when I was sitting there in crisis, I needed some answers to help bring me off of the ledge.

Searching for Mormon by keyword when looking for podcasts should bring it up. I think people can find it that way without ever coming to or even knowing about the discussion boards.

[DBMormon]

So, if I am going to shell out some money to Bill, then how do people hear about him? Especially those in faith crisis.

As far as people needing to depend on the spirit, I agree. The problem for me, when I was sitting there in crisis, I needed some answers to help bring me off of the ledge.

 

 

Readstoomuch,

 

Currently I mention my work through this site slightly and more so on Facebook , also on StayLds and NewOrderMormon.  I have also been interviewed on Exploring Sainthood, the Cultural Hall, Mormon Stories, LeadingLDS, and FairMormon

I currently get about 50,000 feed hits a month (about 30,000 are unique ISP's)  I get between 700-1,500 listens on most episodes within the first 2-3 weeks they are out.  My trouble is the podcast makes very little income (maybe $1,000 this year)  and that money goes back into the podcast.  The site costs about $300.00 a year.  I also try to stay up on equipment (I bought a better, not great, microphone this year along with a pop filter, and built a mini recording studio out of a crate and sound reducing foam)  The rest of the money is saved in an account as I am saving up for the 4 needs I list through this project.  The podcast is growing but it is obvious there is a large segment of people unaware of it who would benefit if they were aware.  My goal is to drastically improve the site then hit heavy LDS markets with a few ads.  I get 1-3 emails a week from listeners who are grateful they found the podcast - here is a couple

 

Brother Reel,

I just wanted to say thank you for your wonderful podcasts. I have also gone through a crisis of faith in the past, and I really appreciate your insights. I'm a fully active member, and I suspect that most people would not guess the depths to which I have searched for answers. Although I feel like I've been at peace with my faith for the last several years, your podcast provides me with hope that many others will find more flexible perspectives. I especially loved your discussion with Jim McKonkie. My first struggle with faith occurred after reading Mormon Doctrine, and the way that you were able to help me better understand Elder McKonkie was fantastic. It soothed some old wounds. Thanks again!

 

 

 

 

Dear Bill,

I just want to let you know you have really helped me see things with a greater understanding and different light.  

Keep it up you do a great work.  I feel my testimony is stronger than before my faith crisis as I do not avoid all questioning.  I see there are more answers out there and I appreciate a lot more beauty in the world.  

Thanks again

 

 

 

Hi Bishop Reel,

Thank you for you website.  It has really helped me with some challenges I have been facing and has given me an enlightened perspective, has given me some direction as to where to study and how to build my faith.  In the past year, my brother and sister in law have left the church along with my husband.  My testimony remains strong, but it has been tested and I am sure will continue to be tested.  I have faith that through these tests I will only become stronger as long as I turn to The Lord.  Thank you for presenting these issues with a strong emphasis on the spiritual.  That is what has made your blog stand out to me and has been exactly what I needed.  The circumstances of being in my car for those few minutes on a Sunday at just the right time by myself and just happened to have the radio on ksl during your interview--I believe was divine intervention.  Keep up the good work!  You are making a difference! 

 

 

Now imagine if the podcast could reach a lot more people!!!!  

Edited May 4, 2014 by DBMormon

[Tacenda]

My fear for people is the problem of seeing any site such as fairmormon, staylds, NOM, this site, and all the podcasts just might open up the idea, the church could be false, that's all it takes, the downside of the internet. I wish no one would have to go through it, it's nearly impossible to regain belief, and for so many now, there isn't a belief in God. It's epidemic, IMO, but maybe I'm using a broad brush. And DB's podcasts may help people like that, but it's a catch 22, with all the sites, whether faithful or not. I know I just want to go back to the faith I once had because I feel like my life is falling apart. Hopefully there's a miracle out there, to reign this kind of exodus, if God is a God of miracles I'd sure like to see them.

[teddyaware]

My fear for people is the problem of seeing any site such as fairmormon, staylds, NOM, this site, and all the podcasts just might open up the idea, the church could be false, that's all it takes, the downside of the internet. I wish no one would have to go through it, it's nearly impossible to regain belief, and for so many now, there isn't a belief in God. It's epidemic, IMO, but maybe I'm using a broad brush. And DB's podcasts may help people like that, but it's a catch 22, with all the sites, whether faithful or not. I know I just want to go back to the faith I once had because I feel like my life is falling apart. Hopefully there's a miracle out there, to reign this kind of exodus, if God is a God of miracles I'd sure like to see them.

Things are just as they should be. A testimony of the Restored Gospel would be meaningless and of little value if it weren't for the existence of a seemingly compelling and convincing countervailing force operating in opposition to the latter-day kingdom of God. The Lord is testing the faith of the saints, allowing the mists of darkness, as seen in the vision of Lehi, to spread over the land to see which of the saints will be persuaded to walk away from the tree of life, and its most precious fruit, and wander off into dark and forbidden paths. If some fall prey to the deceptions of the adversary, it's only to be expected because there are always casualties in war. The valiant who obtain the highest degree of glory in the celestial kingdom will triumph only after successfully passing through much tribulation and the seeming convincing arguments arrayed against the doctrines and history Restored Gospel of Christ.

[Bikeemikey]

There's a difference between being of the honorable people of the earth and yet not knowing the truth of the gospel yet and knowing the truth then leaving it. Let's not perceive removing our grasp from the iron rod and wandering off into the mists of darkness as anything other than it is. (Of course, there are many within the Church who have not been taught as well as they should have by those who should have taught them better, and they may well "go astray" with less culpability than others do.)

People who "know" it's true and leave anyway are very very very uncommon.

Most people leave because the don't know its true or believe they know it's not true... This can happen to people even after many faithful years in the gospel.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Bikeemikey

[Nevo]

.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Nevo

[Bikeemikey]

I agree completely. While I think it's important that members who are struggling with historical issues have access to faithful answers, I am skeptical that giving more visibility to podcasts and websites about dealing with doubt and faith transitions will produce a net benefit for the Church. People that aren't already in a "faith crisis" shouldn't go anywhere near them in my opinion.

As an aside, I'm a little uneasy about the faith crisis industry I see sprouting up with presumably well-meaning entrepreneurs looking to turn doubters into consumers of this or that book, website, or podcast. Maybe that is an inevitable development (supply and demand and all that) but I hate to see personal religious experience being commodified.

I hope you are equally concerned about deserrt books that is trying to turn faithful believing saints into consumers.

[Tacenda]

I hope you are equally concerned about deserrt books that is trying to turn faithful believing saints into consumers.

I took it that he did, wait I reread it, I don't think he did that.  Maybe he's open to it though.   

Edited May 4, 2014 by Tacenda

[Bikeemikey]

I took it that he did, wait I reread it, I don't think he did that. Maybe he's open to it though.

It would be consistent if he did.

[Calm]

Nevo is usually consistent.