why me Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Sure... But your employer can't fire you if you have already left.Excommunication is about repentance and protecting the church.This guy is not engaging in the repentance process and he has already openly separated himself from the church.An excommunication would be moot.IIt is not moot. If a person is still a member, refuses to resign and continues their attack on the lds church, it just may be worse for them in the eternities. Much better to make a clean break and then attack the church. Of course, since he is a member of MT, MT can claim that they have mormons in their ranks. But...mormon in name only. I think that if a person is attacking the lds church like Tom, he is better off exed. He can claim martyr status but he can also be true to himself since he no longer believes.
The Nehor Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 I think that for some lds members who no longer believe, excommunication is far better. They become martyrs. Sending in a resignation letter does not have the same 'pow' impact with the ex-lds crowd. .I say instead of excommunication we send them on missions to Antarctica without purse and script. That way they can actually be martyrs.
Bikeemikey Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) It is not moot. If a person is still a member, refuses to resign and continues their attack on the lds church, it just may be worse for them in the eternities. Much better to make a clean break and then attack the church. Of course, since he is a member of MT, MT can claim that they have mormons in their ranks. But...mormon in name only.I think that if a person is attacking the lds church like Tom, he is better off exed. He can claim martyr status but he can also be true to himself since he no longer believes.So deep down you really want to excommunicate him to help him out at the judgement bar of Christ. Edited March 26, 2014 by Bikeemikey
why me Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) So deep down you really want to excommunicate him to help him out at the judgement bar of Christ.I think that he should resign. He no longer believes in the church so he should resign his membership and be true to himself. My first question to him would be simple: why remain a member? How would he answer this question? He really can't mention family reasons. He has been so far out there in his antimormon activities that his family may welcome his resignation. Edited March 27, 2014 by why me
Sleeper Cell Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 I think that he should resign. He no longer believes in the church so he should resign his membership and be true to himself. My first question to him would be simple: why remain a member? How would he answer this question? He really can't mention family reasons. He has been so far out there in his antimormon activities that his family may welcome his resignation. Why does he still maintain his membership in a church which he has accused of being engaged in fraud on a massive scale? As you indicate, if his relationship with his family survived his attempt to prosecute the president of their church for fraud, how could that relationship be further damaged by his resignation? Some people have accused the church of inflating its membership statistics by continuing to count non-believers as members. Yet, some of the same people criticize anyone who suggests that non believers -- at least those who actively fight against the church -- should resign or be removed from the membership rolls.
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 How come he hasn't been excommunicated for what he's said and done?
David T Posted March 27, 2014 Author Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Why does he still maintain his membership in a church which he has accused of being engaged in fraud on a massive scale? As you indicate, if his relationship with his family survived his attempt to prosecute the president of their church for fraud, how could that relationship be further damaged by his resignation? Some people have accused the church of inflating its membership statistics by continuing to count non-believers as members. Yet, some of the same people criticize anyone who suggests that non believers -- at least those who actively fight against the church -- should resign or be removed from the membership rolls.It's been suggested he wants the Church to initiate the action, to give him an audience to share his Second Anointing story and other claims before his entire Stake High Council as a platform.And appearances are the Church doesn't see the need to play along, when he's likely been cut off and annotated in every practical way. Edited March 27, 2014 by David T
Calm Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Why does he still maintain his membership in a church which he has accused of being engaged in fraud on a massive scale? It is rather strange to continue to be a member of an organization one accuses of fraud rather than severing ties of association to demonstrate disapproval.
Calm Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 It's been suggested he wants the Church to initiate the action, to give him an audience to share his Second Anointing story and other claims before his entire Stake High Council as a platform.And appearances are the Church doesn't see the need to play along, when he's likely been cut off and annotated in every practical way.And if he claims his membership as somehow validating his position, he places himself as a willing party to fraud it would seem to me so I don't see him using any more the "I am a member" card.
wenglund Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 It is rather strange to continue to be a member of an organization one accuses of fraud rather than severing ties of association to demonstrate disapproval. Self-serving agendas often trump reason. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Wiki Wonka Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 And if he claims his membership as somehow validating his position, he places himself as a willing party to fraud it would seem to me so I don't see him using any more the "I am a member" card. I believe that having him retain membership actually works in the Church's favor. He has claimed to have had his calling and election made sure - he claims that he is considered a "god" by the Church (yes, I've seen him write this - that would be an interesting question to have to answer in court). It seems to me that this negates the argument that a person absolutely cannot receive all of the blessings that one can receive if one does not pay tithing. Mr. Phillips has not paid tithing for over seven years, yet the Church has not revoked any of his blessings. If the Church tried to change his membership status so that he wouldn't receive those blessings, then it seems that this would strengthen his argument in court. 1
Bikeemikey Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 I think that he should resign. He no longer believes in the church so he should resign his membership and be true to himself. My first question to him would be simple: why remain a member?How would he answer this question? He really can't mention family reasons. He has been so far out there in his antimormon activities that his family may welcome his resignation.For most people religious membership is defined by voluntary association with the group and attendance. This whole idea of a name is still on the records of a given church is a foreign concept to most religious adherents. Religious Membership is self defined and not institutionally defined so TP, in the eyes of most people (my self included) is a beaucratic irrelevancy, nothing more.Perhaps he hasn't bothered because he doesn't care, doesn't think it meaningful and doesn't want to socialize with ex-bishops to get it done. Or perhaps he already has.He stopped being a member of the church when he came out and said I'm opposed to this church! 1
halconero Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Just so everyone knows, Tom Phillips has resigned as editor of MormonThink in order to enjoy retirement in Portugal. The new editor has made an effort to portray himself as a believing member, but comments he has made indicate otherwise.
Thinking Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 He stopped being a member of the church when he came out and said I'm opposed to this church! Remind the LDS newsroom of this fact so that when it releases a story about something LDS it can claim the membership as 14,999,999 instead of 15 million.
why me Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Just so everyone knows, Tom Phillips has resigned as editor of MormonThink in order to enjoy retirement in Portugal. The new editor has made an effort to portray himself as a believing member, but comments he has made indicate otherwise.If this is true, it is nothing new. MT needs to portray itself as a member site in order to attract members and then more or less encourage them to leave because the church 'hides' its history or lies. It is very slanted on the critic side. I think that Tom must have needed to leave to save MT from embarrassment and to give it a new face. The thing is people today have a memory of 15 minutes and so, MT will eventually get back on track portraying itself as people who are members of the church etc. It will be up to apologists to set the record straight.
Bikeemikey Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) Remind the LDS newsroom of this fact so that when it releases a story about something LDS it can claim the membership as 14,999,999 instead of 15 million. HA! Thats funny. To me this is just another example of institutional bureaucracy running into religious practice. Edited March 28, 2014 by Bikeemikey
Scott Lloyd Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 HA! Thats funny.This is just another example of institutional bureaucracy running into religious practice.If it is an example, it's not self-evident. 1
Bikeemikey Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 If it is an example, it's not self-evident. You forgot to add to you on the end of that.
Scott Lloyd Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 You forgot to add to you on the end of that.No, I didn't forget. Perhaps it is you who forgot with your own post.
Scott Lloyd Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Just so everyone knows, Tom Phillips has resigned as editor of MormonThink in order to enjoy retirement in Portugal. The new editor has made an effort to portray himself as a believing member, but comments he has made indicate otherwise.How fortunate for them.
Bikeemikey Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 No, I didn't forget.Perhaps it is you who forgot with your own post. Or perhaps we both did... i edited my post, did you?
halconero Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 If this is true, it is nothing new. MT needs to portray itself as a member site in order to attract members and then more or less encourage them to leave because the church 'hides' its history or lies. It is very slanted on the critic side. I think that Tom must have needed to leave to save MT from embarrassment and to give it a new face. The thing is people today have a memory of 15 minutes and so, MT will eventually get back on track portraying itself as people who are members of the church etc. It will be up to apologists to set the record straight. I believe that the reason for the high turn over rate in editors is due to the fact that each one does something publicly anti-mormon within a few months of getting their new position. This brands them and the site as anti and so they have to get a new editor to keep up the facade. 4
wenglund Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 I believe that the reason for the high turn over rate in editors is due to the fact that each one does something publicly anti-mormon within a few months of getting their new position. This brands them and the site as anti and so they have to get a new editor to keep up the facade. Which puts them in an a highly ironic position when mis-pointing the finger of fraud. LOL Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Calm Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Just so everyone knows, Tom Phillips has resigned as editor of MormonThink in order to enjoy retirement in Portugal. The new editor has made an effort to portray himself as a believing member, but comments he has made indicate otherwise.Isn't this pretty much what has happened with each of their editors so far or have I lost track…present themselves as believing members until exposed beyond deniability and then they resign and let someone else play the role?
Calm Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) I believe that the reason for the high turn over rate in editors is due to the fact that each one does something publicly anti-mormon within a few months of getting their new position. This brands them and the site as anti and so they have to get a new editor to keep up the facade. What I find interesting is the current status of the "Monson fraud case" on their board. Previously to the dismissal it was front and center and in the top current news listings on the home page. Last I saw it was removed from that and now in the news section is only shown by a link to a SL Trib page IIRC and nothing on it in the What's New page. One can still find it by searching, but certainly seems that the editor didn't want to call attention to it as much as he used to. So new editor and new approach to the attempted criminal charges that was so prominent for a time…it will be interesting to see if it works for them or if they will finally give up the pretense. Edited March 28, 2014 by calmoriah
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