New Nyt Article About Feminists In The Church (March 6)

[NEDRA]

This is a great article. There is support from Sister Burton for more equality!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/07/us/from-mormon-women-a-flood-of-requests-and-questions-on-their-role-in-the-church.html

[wenglund]

I am wondering why is the NYTimes is so concerned about women's issues in the Church? Isn't this the second such article in so many weeks?

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[ksfisher]

I am wondering why is the NYTimes is so concerned about women's issues in the Church? Isn't this the second such article in so many weeks?

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Because it sells papers.

[wenglund]

Because it sells papers.

 

Are you sure there isn't an element of propaganda involved?

 

Thanks -Wade Englund-

[NEDRA]

I think it's becoming a hot issue because the Church is a relatively young one and is known for being responsive to change--whether through inspiration or outside pressure. It's an interesting case study.

[wenglund]

I think it's becoming a hot issue because the Church is a relatively young one and is known for being responsive to change--whether through inspiration or outside pressure. It's an interesting case study.

 

I don't know. It has been decades since the ERA push and the women's movement, and the Church came under no small scrutiny at the time, and so the NYTimes seems more than a little behind the curve in this regard. That is why I suspect there is a hidden agenda driving this, though I could be wrong.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited March 7, 2014 by wenglund

[NEDRA]

This is fourth wave feminism, though. The ERA was second wave.

[Calm]

I don't know. It has been decades since the ERA push and the women's movement, and the Church came under no small scrutiny at the time, and so the NYTimes seems more than a little behind the curve in this regard. That is why I suspect there is a hidden agenda driving this, though I could be wrong.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

It is not like the ERA debate settled the question for all time, not even in people's minds. There are a lot of women in the Church concerned with these issues who weren't even alive or were way too young at the time to be aware of it.

[wenglund]

This is fourth wave feminism, though. The ERA was second wave.

 

Evidently, people aren't learning from history, but are repeating the mistakes of he past. It is sad that they haven't figured out yet that the ultimate modern-day feminist was Mother Teresa, if not also many of our nurturing mothers at home.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited March 7, 2014 by wenglund

[Bikeemikey]

Evidently, people aren't learning from history, but are repeating the mistakes of he past. It is sad that they haven't figured out yet that the ultimate modern-day feminist was Mother Teresa, if not also many of our nurturing mothers at home.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

So mother Teresa is a more important female role model than any of the relief society presidents?

[Scott Lloyd]

So mother Teresa is a more important female role model than any of the relief society presidents?

Did you miss the part where he said "also many of our nurturing mothers at home"?

 

The Relief Society presidents fit that description, I daresay.

[why me]

It is not like the ERA debate settled the question for all time, not even in people's minds. There are a lot of women in the Church concerned with these issues who weren't even alive or were way too young at the time to be aware of it.

I think that on the other thread about another NYT article I mentioned the social media. Here we see an example of it. The NYT gives publicity to the OrdainWomen movement and has feminist mormon women who wish to have more say and power in the affairs of the church make their comments, and of course, more mormon women and men will head to the internet to investigate such organizations, and more pressure will be exerted on the church leadership. Such is the social media and the internet in organizing people. However it would be nice if the NYT would go to the mormon church uptown and interview some typical mormon women about their perceptions about the lds church and the role of women in it.

Edited March 7, 2014 by why me

[why me]

This is a great article. There is support from Sister Burton for more equality!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/07/us/from-mormon-women-a-flood-of-requests-and-questions-on-their-role-in-the-church.html

Well, I am sure there is. Unfortunately, for the NYT they seem to relish in going to feminist mormon organizations for comments and not to the general membership who happen to be women. For example, the NYT can head uptown to the mormon church and interview mormon women during a relief society meeting during the week. They could ask for an appointment to visit. Why do they always need to push the OrdainWomen movement? Is this organization the spokespeople for all mormon women? Or even a small part of them?

 

I have spoken with my daughters and they certainly don't want the priesthood and they are perfectly happy being women in the lds church. Are they a minority?

Edited March 7, 2014 by why me

[Calm]

However it would be nice if the NYT would go to the mormon church uptown and interview some typical mormon women about their perceptions about the lds church and the role of women in it.

That is pretty much what they did. They asked for responses and then asked those who responded for more details and then contacted them. I was one of them, but I declined to be interviewed. I know another typical LDS nonassociated with any feminist organisation who doesn't want the Priesthood also contacted.

Did you even read the first article? Plenty of typical in the article and in the over 200 comments they published from LDS women.

The NYT should have been clear about where the comments came from, it would have made their article more effective in my opinion that these weren't women looking to complain, but were asked their opinion no matter what position they had previously reported about the Church.

The NYT had to have gotten the Church's permission to speak to the Sister Missionaries. And of course Pres. Burton's quotes indicate further cooperation at the top levels. I think NYT have done an overall excellent job except for their misstatement on Mormon Women Project which they immediately removed from the online version though it was too late for the print. Perhaps they offered a printed correction though.

Edited March 7, 2014 by calmoriah

[Calm]

Are you sure there isn't an element of propaganda involved?-

Quite possibly, it is a great vehicle for Pres. Burton to help spread the message church leadership want people to hear, that leadership is listening and working to meet the needs of women in the Church (such as with the expansion of the RS Board).

"The church will benefit as “men’s vision of the capacity of women becomes more complete,” as Sister Linda K. Burton, president of the Relief Society, the church’s auxiliary for adult women, put it"

"“As church leaders, we are keenly aware of these cultural issues and of course we are addressing them,” Linda K. Burton, the church’s most senior female official and president of its women’s auxiliary the Relief Society, said in a statement."

Edited March 7, 2014 by calmoriah

[Calm]

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/new-york-times-missions-signal-growing-role-mormon-women

"After working on the story for several months, The New York Times published a 4,500-word article on Saturday, 1 March, triggered by the surge in numbers of female missionaries serving for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints since the minimum age for service for women was dropped from 21 to 19.

The Times does a good job of capturing the enthusiasm of the young women of the Church now entering missionary service, the contributions they are making and the implications for the future.

Authors Jodi Kantor and Laurie Goodstein describe Church efforts as “one of the most sensitive gender experiments of coming years,” and report that while cultural changes are being addressed by the Church, the doctrine — including priesthood ordination — is unchanging.

Particularly insightful are interviews by Jodi Kantor of missionaries in South Korea, where Ms. Kantor assessed for herself the increasing responsibilities and leadership roles now resting on female missionaries.  The newspaper’s visit to South Korea was facilitated in part by Church Public Affairs spokeswoman Jessica Moody, who herself served in South Korea as a missionary.

In Mormon Newsroom's view, the lengthy article was fair overall, and the Church welcomes the interest of objective journalists who thoughtfully explore its beliefs and culture, but the Times misstepped in a couple of places. An hour and a half interview with Linda K. Burton, who as president of the nearly 6-million-member Relief Society is one of the most influential women in the Church, yielded a half-sentence quote.  And the newspaper’s reference to the Mormon Women Project as a place where women can vent frustrations about the Church caused an immediate protest about mischaracterization from the project’s leaders.  To its credit, the Times removed the mention of the site in the online edition, but it was too late to be deleted from the print edition.

The newspaper invites readers to participate by sharing their experiences in the comment sections located throughout the feature."

It would have been very nice to hear more from Pres. Burton. Maybe we will see more of her in another article soon.

Edited March 7, 2014 by calmoriah

[Senator]

I am wondering why is the NYTimes is so concerned about women's issues in the Church? Isn't this the second such article in so many weeks?

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

Why would we be surprised (or suspicious) at people's increased interest in response to our hastened efforts?

Edited March 7, 2014 by Senator

[ksfisher]

Are you sure there isn't an element of propaganda involved?

 

Thanks -Wade Englund-

Propaganda?  Definitly.  But the Times would only print that propaganda if they felt that it would lead to more papers being sold. 

 

"And now, because of the glory of the world and to get ^again will they say this, and not for the glory of God."  2 Nephi 27:16

 

(Perhaps I'm using that scripture out of context, but it seems to apply.)

[Gray]

I think we may just be on the verge of our own Mormon spring.

[Buckeye]

I am wondering why is the NYTimes is so concerned about women's issues in the Church? Isn't this the second such article in so many weeks?

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

The original article requested that women submit their recommendations for changes that would enhance their church experience.  I believe this second article is a summary of the responses received. 

 

Typo edit.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Buckeye

[Buckeye]

I think that on the other thread about another NYT article I mentioned the social media. Here we see an example of it. The NYT gives publicity to the OrdainWomen movement and has feminist mormon women who wish to have more say and power in the affairs of the church make their comments, and of course, more mormon women and men will head to the internet to investigate such organizations, and more pressure will be exerted on the church leadership. Such is the social media and the internet in organizing people. However it would be nice if the NYT would go to the mormon church uptown and interview some typical mormon women about their perceptions about the lds church and the role of women in it.

 

Did you even read the article?  The authors spent several months interviewing active LDS women with a wide range of views, including dozens and dozens of sister missionaries.  According to the Church Newsroom, the authors interviewed President Burton for an hour and a half.  (http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/new-york-times-missions-signal-growing-role-mormon-women).  You can't get much more "uptown" than that. 

 

I'd also note that the newsroom's own response directed readers to make comments at the NY Times.  So apparently someone in the church approves of the Times running a second article summarizing the responses. 

 

Edit to add:  My apologies to Calmoriah who already made most of these points above.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Buckeye

[Buckeye]

I think we may just be on the verge of our own Mormon spring.

 

I'd be happy just for a normal spring. 

[why me]

Did you even read the article?  The authors spent several months interviewing active LDS women with a wide range of views, including dozens and dozens of sister missionaries.  According to the Church Newsroom, the authors interviewed President Burton for an hour and a half.  (http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/new-york-times-missions-signal-growing-role-mormon-women).  You can't get much more "uptown" than that. 

 

I'd also note that the newsroom's own response directed readers to make comments at the NY Times.  So apparently someone in the church approves of the Times running a second article summarizing the responses. 

 

Edit to add:  My apologies to Calmoriah who already made most of these points above.

I did. What I didn't see were comments favorable to the church from specific people. What I saw were the vast majority of women mentioned wanting changes in the lds church. Reading that article from a nonMormon perspective, I would get the impression that women are somewhat oppressed in the lds church. I saw hardly anything that was favorable to the lds church and its relationship with women.

[why me]

The original article requested that women submit their recommendations for changes that would enhance their church experience.  I believe this second article is a summary of the responses received. 

 

 

This is true. However, my impression of the second article was that it was not very positive about women in the lds church. The stress was on the lack of power that women have and what needs to be done to rectify it. I also got the impression that women are rather unhappy in the lds church as they come up against male priesthood power.

 

But maybe I am mistaken.

[MiserereNobis]

I did. What I didn't see were comments favorable to the church from specific people. What I saw were the vast majority of women mentioned wanting changes in the lds church. Reading that article from a nonMormon perspective, I would get the impression that women are somewhat oppressed in the lds church. I saw hardly anything that was favorable to the lds church and its relationship with women.

 

Try reading the comments on ANY article mentioning anything about the Catholic Church, good or bad.

 

Don't think the LDS church has the monopoly on getting bad comments -- the Catholic Church gets crucified regularly, which is ok by us, because we were told that is what would happen to Christ's followers