K-2 Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Apparently Carol Lynn Pearson is bothered by the fact that some women are afraid that they will die and their husband will marry another woman for eternity, or that he will die and they will be unable to initially be sealed for eternity to whatever man they may thereafter marry, even if they feel he is a better mate than their deceased husband. She seems to be bothered by the inequality she sees in the situation. She has made an online survey about the topic. Just wondering what everyone thinks about her survey, and about her concerns. Edited March 6, 2014 by K-2
Popular Post Palerider Posted March 6, 2014 Popular Post Posted March 6, 2014 Isn't this the one where we receive the pat on the head and get told patronizingly, that it will all be worked out in the afterlife? 5
teddyaware Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 Isn't this the one where we receive the pat on the head and get told patronizingly, that it will all be worked out in the afterlife?For those who have living faith in a perfectly just, wise and all-knowing God, there is every confidence that with His help all will be perfectly worked out in a glorious afterlife that is described by the prophets as "a state of happiness the hath no end." 3
Coreyb Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) I still don't see why she couldn't be eternally wedded to both men Edited March 6, 2014 by Coreyb 1
Thinking Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 Apparently Carol Lynn Pearson is bothered by the fact that some women are afraid that they will die and their husband will marry another woman for eternity, or that he will die and they will be unable to initially be sealed for eternity to whatever man they may thereafter marry, even if they feel he is a better mate than their deceased husband. She seems to be bothered by the inequality she sees in the situation. She has made an online survey about the topic. Just wondering what everyone thinks about her survey, and about her concerns. Isn't there something similar to this in Matthew? Matthew 2223 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.27 And last of all the woman died also.28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. 1
Abulafia Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 Isn't there something similar to this in Matthew? Matthew 2223 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.27 And last of all the woman died also.28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. I tend to think that that is an authentic saying of Jesus. LDS have a specific take on it, but it seems that 1) Jesus was pretty much against divorce at any cost, which was just too radical even for Paul and later Jesus followers.2) Jesus was anti-polygamy, indicated in places other than this particular passage.I filled in the survey.I have a feeling that Carol Lynn Pearson is sponsoring it, rather than having created it. I might be wrong on that, but that is the impression I got from her intro to it on facebook.I think it is a worthwhile survey. I always, always had a problem with a polygamous afterlife (and indeed in this life). For me, this wasn't Joseph Smith at his best doctrinally speaking. I think it was a big mistake and had little to do with the Christian message. Hopefully one day when women and men are seen as truly equal, all this will be put behind the church as uninspired, much like the 'race' issue today.I probably won't be alive when it happens. 1
Senator Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 For those who have living faith in a perfectly just, wise and all-knowing God, there is every confidence that with His help all will be perfectly worked out in a glorious afterlife that is described by the prophets as "a state of happiness the hath no end." It teaches me that I need not place too much undue stock in our current religious/doctrinal conventions for my eventual salvation and happiness. I'm onboard with that. 2
CV75 Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 Apparently Carol Lynn Pearson is bothered by the fact that some women are afraid that they will die and their husband will marry another woman for eternity, or that he will die and they will be unable to initially be sealed for eternity to whatever man they may thereafter marry, even if they feel he is a better mate than their deceased husband. She seems to be bothered by the inequality she sees in the situation. She has made an online survey about the topic. Just wondering what everyone thinks about her survey, and about her concerns.Charity and virtue yield confidence and a correct understanding of doctrine (D&C 121:45).
Popular Post David T Posted March 6, 2014 Popular Post Posted March 6, 2014 Here's an actual link to the survey. There is no harm in sharing your experiences and beliefs.https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sealingsurvey 5
rodheadlee Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 If you truly love the person you wouldn't want them to be lonely after you die. If you truly love your neighbor you want them to have the same love that you have experienced. 2
rockpond Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 Apparently Carol Lynn Pearson is bothered by the fact that some women are afraid that they will die and their husband will marry another woman for eternity, or that he will die and they will be unable to initially be sealed for eternity to whatever man they may thereafter marry, even if they feel he is a better mate than their deceased husband. She seems to be bothered by the inequality she sees in the situation. She has made an online survey about the topic. Just wondering what everyone thinks about her survey, and about her concerns. Do you have a quote from Carol Lynn Pearson regarding these statements you are making about how she feels? Or is it just your assumption? I completed the survey when she posted it to Facebook. It was straightforward, short, and seemed to be looking to gather information on Mormon attitudes/beliefs about polygamy. No harm in it.
K-2 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Do you have a quote from Carol Lynn Pearson regarding these statements you are making about how she feels? Or is it just your assumption? I completed the survey when she posted it to Facebook. It was straightforward, short, and seemed to be looking to gather information on Mormon attitudes/beliefs about polygamy. No harm in it. The wording of some of the survey instructions and questions left no doubt in my mind. They were not as neutral as they should ideally have been; for example at one place in the survey, participants are asked to identify various pro-polygamy teachings that they may have heard in a LDS setting and then it said something like "regardless of how you may feel about them." Edited March 6, 2014 by K-2
rockpond Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 The wording of some of the survey instructions and questions left no doubt in my mind. They were not as neutral as they should ideally have been; for example at one place in the survey, participants are asked to identify various pro-polygamy teachings that they may have heard in a LDS setting and then it said something like "regardless of how you may feel about them." Writing a neutral survey is a difficult task for a professional researcher, much less someone who is not experienced in that field and is just using SurveyMonkey. But there was nothing in Pearson's survey that struck me as an intentional attempt to bias the results. That particular question struck me as an attempt to understand what church members had been taught about polygamy irrespective of personally held beliefs. Seems like a valid question given that I know plenty of members who do not have a testimony of polygamy even though it is a doctrine of ours. If that is all that you are working from, I think you ought to retract your statements about what "bothers" Pearson when you apparently don't know and don't know her motivations behind the survey. 3
K-2 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) I don't at all think she is trying to bias the survey results.In her introduction to the survey she mentions the stories of LDS widows and the dilemma they face and says they are "difficult" and "deeply moving."What's so difficult about having to marry someone for time... unless of course you feel it is unfair? Edited March 6, 2014 by K-2
daz2 Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 "What's so difficult about having to marry someone for time... unless of course you feel it is unfair?" Certainly the widow and the prospective husband and children of the two have those feelings--and when other people hurt, I hurt too. My aunt and uncle were in that situation. Under current understandings, the two children they had together are considered sealed to her first husband, not to their biological father. I can tell you that my aunt, uncle, and their two children (considered sealed to someone else) struggled with their feelings. And, yes, I do think that if the current understanding (i.e., that the children born to my aunt and uncle are sealed to her first husband, not to their father), I think it is unfair. Of course, I do not accept the current understanding. After both of them passed away, my aunt and uncle were sealed vicariously. In my view, my aunt is sealed both to him and to her first husband. And as a result, the children of my aunt and uncle also partake in the sealing covenant of their biological parents. 2
rockpond Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 I don't at all think she is trying to bias the survey results.In her introduction to the survey she mentions the stories of LDS widows and the dilemma they face and says they are "difficult" and "deeply moving."What's so difficult about having to marry someone for time... unless of course you feel it is unfair? I think that she answers that question in the intro to her survey... I'll quote it here for convenience: Over the years I have heard from many LDS women and men who believe, or have been taught, that if they are righteous enough to obtain the highest degree of exaltation, it will be required of them to live in eternal polygamy. Although the practice of polygamy was officially ended in 1890, it is still permitted in temple sealings which allow a man (but not a woman) to be sealed to subsequent spouses with the promise that these wives will be sealed to him in the eternities. I have received deeply moving stories of young LDS widows who often face a very difficult situation. If a woman has been sealed to her husband and her husband passes away, she cannot be married in the temple to a second husband unless she cancels the sealing to her first husband. If she doesn’t (or is not allowed to) cancel the sealing to her first husband, any children she has with her second husband will be sealed to her first husband. Many widows report that this limits their opportunities to be considered for dating by good LDS men who are interested in finding their own eternal companion and creating their own eternal family.It is my intention with this survey to establish whether or not the beliefs and experiences I have outlined above are extensive throughout the Mormon community and to learn from you who take this survey whether or not you feel at peace with the teachings and policies as you understand them. Please take a few minutes to complete this survey and especially, at the end of the survey—if you choose—to write your personal experience or that of someone near to you. This survey is completely anonymous. If your story is shared in any way, all revealing specifics will be deleted. I would especially like to hear from Mormons across the spectrum—active, inactive, conservative, liberal, or ex-Mormon. Emphasis mine. I thought, however, that the policy she references (that women could not be sealed to a second husband without cancelling the first sealing) had been officially removed. I need to check Handbook 1 but LDS.org is currently down for maintenance and my copies of the handbook are at home. I'll try to look later unless someone can confirm/deny.
EllenMaksoud Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 Apparently Carol Lynn Pearson is bothered by the fact that some women are afraid that they will die and their husband will marry another woman for eternity, or that he will die and they will be unable to initially be sealed for eternity to whatever man they may thereafter marry, even if they feel he is a better mate than their deceased husband. She seems to be bothered by the inequality she sees in the situation. She has made an online survey about the topic. Just wondering what everyone thinks about her survey, and about her concerns.I got about half way through the test and didn't know any of the answers after that. Does this mean I am only half a Mormon? 1
bluebell Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 Emphasis mine. I thought, however, that the policy she references (that women could not be sealed to a second husband without cancelling the first sealing) had been officially removed. I need to check Handbook 1 but LDS.org is currently down for maintenance and my copies of the handbook are at home. I'll try to look later unless someone can confirm/deny. As i understand it (and i admit i could be understanding it wrong), the policy still exists but women have been able to get special permission and be sealed to two men at the same time. Even two men who are both still living in the case of divorce. It's starting to be one of those gray areas where the policy is still in place, but the practice does not always match the policy anymore. Like i said, unless they have changed it and i'm behind the curve, which could certainly be the case. 3
K-2 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Posted March 6, 2014 The Church Handbook says "A living woman may be sealed to only one husband." (3.6.1) Some other things in the survey that seemed to indicate an uneasiness about polygamy were things like choices that say things like that polygamy was not a commandment of God but was human error and has led to harm, or one that asked for feelings about polygamy and gave choices like Joy, Peace, Indifference, Sadness, or Anger. I don't think that anyone actually feels joy or peace upon learning about polygamy, but the only other choices are not exactly positive, which I thought was odd. Another question asked if the person being surveyed knew of any families that have experienced trouble or tension because of the question of who is going to be with whom in the next life. I've been a member of the LDS Church for 40 plus years and have never heard of such questions causing conflict in a family. The question seemed to be anticipating that negative responses would come.
EllenMaksoud Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 Isn't there something similar to this in Matthew? Matthew 2223 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.27 And last of all the woman died also.28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Yaaayyyy ! Thank you for sparing me the effort of looking that up.This is why some of this eternal marriage issue is fairly sublime for me.
bluebell Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 I think it is a worthwhile survey. I always, always had a problem with a polygamous afterlife (and indeed in this life). For me, this wasn't Joseph Smith at his best doctrinally speaking. I think it was a big mistake and had little to do with the Christian message. We know that it was JS trying to understand the Old Testament which lead to this revelation (or to the pretend revelation for those who don't think he was a prophet). For those who think that polygamy has little to do with Christ or His gospel, how do you personally understand the OT reliance on polygamy to create the House of Israel, God's chosen people? 1
bluebell Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 The Church Handbook says "A living woman may be sealed to only one husband." (3.6.1) Yes, but women are currently being sealed to more than one husband, with 1st presidency approval, so obviously the policy isn't set in stone. 1
rockpond Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 The Church Handbook says "A living woman may be sealed to only one husband." (3.6.1) Some other things in the survey that seemed to indicate an uneasiness about polygamy were things like choices that say things like that polygamy was not a commandment of God but was human error and has led to harm, or one that asked for feelings about polygamy and gave choices like Joy, Peace, Indifference, Sadness, or Anger. I don't think that anyone actually feels joy or peace upon learning about polygamy, but the only other choices are not exactly positive, which I thought was odd. Another question asked if the person being surveyed knew of any families that have experienced trouble or tension because of the question of who is going to be with whom in the next life. I've been a member of the LDS Church for 40 plus years and have never heard of such questions causing conflict in a family. The question seemed to be anticipating that negative responses would come. Some church members do believe that polygamy was human error (not from God). That's a fair question to ask. "Indifference" is the middle choice between joy, peace, sadness, or anger. What option would you suggest putting in? Right here on this thread you've been given an example of a family that experienced trouble or tension about who is going to be with whom in the next life. 1
rockpond Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 For those who think that polygamy has little to do with Christ or His gospel, how do you personally understand the OT reliance on polygamy to create the House of Israel, God's chosen people? Cultural norms for the time and place.
bluebell Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 Cultural norms for the time and place. It sounds like you are saying that nothing is sinful if God is o.k. with it. He allowed His prophet (many of them) to used an immoral cultural practice to accomplish His purposes and bless the entire world thru? (I'm just wanting to make sure i understand what you are saying).
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