The New Earth

[teddyaware]

While ruminating on some of the comments on the "Adam and the Apes" thread on this board, which is largely centered around the organic evolution vs. the scriptures controversy, something astonishing dawned upon me. In the Doctrine and Covenants, as well as in the other standard works, we are informed that after (or during) the final judgment the earth upon which we now stand is going to be transformed into a totally new kind of earth, something that strains and bends the imagination. Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

6 The angels do not reside on a planet like this earth;
7 But they reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord.
8 The place where God resides is a great Urim and Thummim.
9 This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s.
 
It seems that just after (or during) the final Judgment, this planet is going to be miraculously transformed -- apparently quite rapidly -- into a supremely glorious planet that will become a Celestial Kingdom, or heaven, to the exalted beings who will dwell thereon. Not only that, but on the way to becoming a Celestial Kingdom it appears the planet earth we know and love is going to undergo a super rapid and total geological transformation, apparently the result of the application of extremely intense heat (see D&C 101:24-25).
 
If that isn't enough, this very rapid geological transformation will change this planet into a crystalline "sea of glass" that will be a gigantic Urim and Thummim to all the new earth's inhabitants; a Urim and Thummim that will enable the exalted beings who dwell there to receive revelation concerning all the goings on in kingdoms of inferior glory.
 
Finally, this new "heaven earth" is going to be populated by a highly advanced race of men. Not only will these people be of a much higher intellectual capacity, when compared to those who dwell on earth in its present form, but they will also be biologically superior as well, for they will no longer be subject to sickness and death. And to top it all off, instead of having to evolve over millions of years to reach this point of biological and intellectual superiority, the godlike inhabitants of the new reath will be transformed into these superior beings in an instant, by the resurrection.
 
Now I know most evolutionary scientists would say all of these things are a fantasy that could never happen in the real world and universe. But as Latter-day Saints we are told in no uncertain terms these things are actually going to happen.
 
So here's the point: What would be more difficult for God to do? To totally transfigure this earth, virtually overnight, into a celestial kingdom populated by an immeasurably superior race, or transform some stardust to become this world, virtually overnight, and populate it with inferior beings? The point here is that we're taught God's creative power can cause very rapid and dramatic change to planets and to the beings who dwell on those planets.
 
Speaking rhetorically, one wonders, if we were to rely only on normal geological, atmospheric, interstellar and biological forces alone, how many millions of years would it take for this planet to be transformed into a celestial kingdom? And one wonders how many millions of years it would take for organic evolution to transform the human race into an immortal, godlike race?
 
Of course, you can see where I'm going with this. The scriptures testify that the creative action of an omnipotent and omniscient God can cause worlds to radically change very rapidly. Yet many seem unwilling to entertain the idea that God could have done something similar at the beginning of earth's creation. When a Being has infinite and eternal power and intelligence, all bets are off.

Edited January 10, 2014 by teddyaware

[The Nehor]

A fun theory but it hits a problem. Why does this planet look like it is so old? I suspect God could have created the world and gotten us on it faster but it looks like He didn't. There is a probably a reason. Another round of creation or creations before us using the same planet? Some other purpose we would not understand?

 

There is also nothing suggesting that the transformation of the earth to a celestial state will occur quickly. In truth it sounds like our star is expected to look like when it dies. It bloats into a red giant and then spews everything off leaving a very hot diamond behind.

[Rob Osborn]

Interesting thoughts. I think we tend to forget all that has happened and will happen, all in very rapid time frames mostly because we have leaned too long on mans understanding. The one that really interests me is how the oceans will recede back into the earth and the land will become one land again when Christ comes. That is a major geologic change!

As for man, during the millennium man will not die and be buried in the ground but be changed in the twinkling of an eye from mortality to immortality. How would evolutionary science explain that?

[The Nehor]

As for man, during the millennium man will not die and be buried in the ground but be changed in the twinkling of an eye from mortality to immortality. How would evolutionary science explain that?

 

A zombie.

[cdowis]

You might look at this thread

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/55474-earth-transformed-into-a-crystal/?hl=crystal

 

Scientists have discovered a crystal planet.

[teddyaware]

A fun theory but it hits a problem. Why does this planet look like it is so old? I suspect God could have created the world and gotten us on it faster but it looks like He didn't. There is a probably a reason. Another round of creation or creations before us using the same planet? Some other purpose we would not understand?

 

There is also nothing suggesting that the transformation of the earth to a celestial state will occur quickly. In truth it sounds like our star is expected to look like when it dies. It bloats into a red giant and then spews everything off leaving a very hot diamond behind.

 

The transformation of this earth from its terrestrial state, as it will exist during the millennium, to its exalted celestial state will likely have to happen very rapidly, and here's why: The final judgment is going to take place immediately after the millennial reign, and after the final judgment has taken place all the people will be assigned to dwell in one of the three kingdoms of glory, Since those worthy of a celestial glory are going to dwell on the new celestialized earth, it will have to be ready for occupation immediately after the final judgment. Otherwise the occupants of the new earth will have to hang around waiting millions of earth years somewhere else in the universe (perhaps a motel?) until the old earth has been transformed into the new one through the agonizingly slow process of change the scientists call "natural processes." Another possibility (if the earth is going to be transformed by natural processes and not by the miraculous creative intervention of God) is that the final judgment will drag on for millions of earth years.

But there's one thing I know intuitively and that is that God does possess the power and knowhow to transform this earth into the new one very rapidly if He ever chooses to do so. How long would it take for an infinite and eternal power to burn the earth with fervent heat and transform it into a crystalline sea of glass? I'd say not long.

Edited January 10, 2014 by teddyaware

[teddyaware]

You might look at this thread

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/55474-earth-transformed-into-a-crystal/?hl=crystal

 

Scientists have discovered a crystal planet.

Now that's cool!

[teddyaware]

Interesting thoughts. I think we tend to forget all that has happened and will happen, all in very rapid time frames mostly because we have leaned too long on mans understanding. The one that really interests me is how the oceans will recede back into the earth and the land will become one land again when Christ comes. That is a major geologic change!

As for man, during the millennium man will not die and be buried in the ground but be changed in the twinkling of an eye from mortality to immortality. How would evolutionary science explain that?

Very good! Another thought that's crossed my mind in this regard is what if all the evidence and clues left behind in the fossil records are actually pointing to something else other than organic evolution. What if all these clues are evidence of something men have heretofore never even considered or thought of?

[The Nehor]

 

The transformation of this earth from its terrestrial state, as it will exist during the millennium, to its exalted celestial state will likely have to happen very rapidly, and here's why: The final judgment is going to take place immediately after the millennial reign, and after the final judgment has taken place all the people will be assigned to dwell in one of the three kingdoms of glory, Since those worthy of a celestial glory are going to dwell on the new celestialized earth, it will have to be ready for occupation immediately after the final judgment. Otherwise the occupants of the new earth will have to hang around waiting millions of earth years somewhere else in the universe (perhaps a motel?) until the old earth has been transformed into the new one through the agonizingly slow process of change the scientists call "natural processes." Another possibility (if the earth is going to be transformed by natural processes and not by the miraculous creative intervention of God) is that the final judgment will drag on for millions of earth years.

But there's one thing I know intuitively and that is that God does possess the power and knowhow to transform this earth into the new one very rapidly if He ever chooses to do so. How long would it take for an infinite and eternal power to burn the earth with fervent heat and transform it into a crystalline sea of glass? I'd say not long.

 

I have not seen anything that suggests that the earth must be inhabited immediately after the Final Judgement. Reading Joseph Fielding Smith the earth must "die" (whatever that means) and then be resurrected to a celestial state. It also sounds like the exalted will take up residence there when they have become "gods" (whatever that means) and according to Brigham Young that will be a long time after the Final Judgment.

[Senator]

 

The transformation of this earth from its terrestrial state, as it will exist during the millennium, to its exalted celestial state will likely have to happen very rapidly, and here's why: The final judgment is going to take place immediately after the millennial reign, and after the final judgment has taken place all the people will be assigned to dwell in one of the three kingdoms of glory, Since those worthy of a celestial glory are going to dwell on the new celestialized earth, it will have to be ready for occupation immediately after the final judgment. Otherwise the occupants of the new earth will have to hang around waiting millions of earth years somewhere else in the universe (perhaps a motel?) until the old earth has been transformed into the new one through the agonizingly slow process of change the scientists call "natural processes." Another possibility (if the earth is going to be transformed by natural processes and not by the miraculous creative intervention of God) is that the final judgment will drag on for millions of earth years.

 

 

Do you need for things to happen instantaneously?

[teddyaware]

Do you need for things to happen instantaneously?

Absolutely not. I'm totally open minded on all of this. My main point here is that the scriptures seem to indicate that tremendous manifestations of God's creative power don't necessarily have to take eons for them to happen.

[teddyaware]

I have not seen anything that suggests that the earth must be inhabited immediately after the Final Judgement. Reading Joseph Fielding Smith the earth must "die" (whatever that means) and then be resurrected to a celestial state. It also sounds like the exalted will take up residence there when they have become "gods" (whatever that means) and according to Brigham Young that will be a long time after the Final Judgment.

I don't know that it's true that one must be a god before entering the celestial kingdom. According to the D&C, there are three degrees of glory in the celestial kingdom (in this case the new earth) and not everyone who dwells there has to be a god before they can enter.

1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this border of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase. (D&C 131)

[thesometimesaint]

Absolutely not. I'm totally open minded on all of this. My main point here is that the scriptures seem to indicate that tremendous manifestations of God's creative power don't necessarily have to take eons for them to happen.

 

What is a few billion years to immortal(Eternal) beings?

[teddyaware]

What is a few billion years to immortal(Eternal) beings?

I agree. And that's one of the reasons why I find all of this so very interesting and why I'm also keeping an open mind.

Edited January 10, 2014 by teddyaware

[mfbukowski]

Here's another way to think about that.

If we will have a new earth, there must have been "old earths" as well. 

 

Perhaps this earth we are now on, that is, this time reference period started with Adam.  

I see all these words referring to time reference periods.

For me that solves it all.

[teddyaware]

Here's another way to think about that.

If we will have a new earth, there must have been "old earths" as well. 

 

Perhaps this earth we are now on, that is, this time reference period started with Adam.  

I see all these words referring to time reference periods.

For me that solves it all.

Very good point!

[Freedom]

9 This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor

 

There is a HUGE difference between becoming a crystal and being LIKE a crystal/urim and thummim. The earth, from my reading, will be fully understood and we will access to all there is to know. We will have a much upgraded version of google. 

[Coreyb]

 

The transformation of this earth from its terrestrial state, as it will exist during the millennium, to its exalted celestial state will likely have to happen very rapidly, and here's why: The final judgment is going to take place immediately after the millennial reign, and after the final judgment has taken place all the people will be assigned to dwell in one of the three kingdoms of glory, Since those worthy of a celestial glory are going to dwell on the new celestialized earth, it will have to be ready for occupation immediately after the final judgment. Otherwise the occupants of the new earth will have to hang around waiting millions of earth years somewhere else in the universe (perhaps a motel?) until the old earth has been transformed into the new one through the agonizingly slow process of change the scientists call "natural processes." Another possibility (if the earth is going to be transformed by natural processes and not by the miraculous creative intervention of God) is that the final judgment will drag on for millions of earth years.

But there's one thing I know intuitively and that is that God does possess the power and knowhow to transform this earth into the new one very rapidly if He ever chooses to do so. How long would it take for an infinite and eternal power to burn the earth with fervent heat and transform it into a crystalline sea of glass? I'd say not long.

If final judgement is at all like how legal cases are on earth, millions of years will not be enough

[teddyaware]

If final judgement is at all like how legal cases are on earth, millions of years will not be enough

LOL!!! How true! How true! You've got it! By today's standard's, and when you take into account the total population of the earth past, present and future, it really will take millions of years. "You Honor, I object! That's hearsay...

[teddyaware]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor

 

There is a HUGE difference between becoming a crystal and being LIKE a crystal/urim and thummim. The earth, from my reading, will be fully understood and we will access to all there is to know. We will have a much upgraded version of google.

And I agree.

[cinepro]

Speaking rhetorically, one wonders, if we were to rely only on normal geological, atmospheric, interstellar and biological forces alone, how many millions of years would it take for this planet to be transformed into a celestial kingdom? And one wonders how many millions of years it would take for organic evolution to transform the human race into an immortal, godlike race?

 

Of course, you can see where I'm going with this. The scriptures testify that the creative action of an omnipotent and omniscient God can cause worlds to radically change very rapidly. Yet many seem unwilling to entertain the idea that God could have done something similar at the beginning of earth's creation. When a Being has infinite and eternal power and intelligence, all bets are off.

 

 

There is a precedent for this.  Remember that Kal-El built a large crystal fortress using only Kryptonian technology in just a few minutes.  That being the case, I don't see any reason that a divine being couldn't transform an entire planet using Kolobian technology within 24 hours.  The math works out just about right.

[cinepro]

But in all seriousness, the ideas in your OP were explored in this Ensign article:

 

The Gospel and the Scientific Worldview: How the Earth Came to Be

 

 

It is therefore helpful to remember, when pondering the millions of years secularists postulate to explain the formation of the earth, that all current geological dating processes are based on the assumption that the present order of nature preceded us and will continue uniformly hereafter. This secularist view also holds that God, if he exists, never has and never will interfere. However, the revelations Latter-day Saints have about the earth and God’s dealings with it simply do not permit us to make those assumptions. As Latter-day Saints we do not throw out the Genesis story—as so many secularists have done—nor do we regard scientists’ honest efforts to learn the truth as the work of the Adversary (though the Adversary does, of course, use those views to fulfill his ends). Instead, we would do better to wait patiently with faith in the scriptures until the Lord fulfills his promise to reveal at the beginning of the Millennium, “things which have passed, … things of the earth, by which it was made,” which, we are assured, will still be part of the “hidden things which no man knew” (D&C 101:32–33). Once the truth is known, all conflicts arising from part truths will vanish. In the meantime, scientists (including many Latter-day Saints) can continue to supply us with helpful knowledge about our present, mortal sphere, or even with ideas about how things might have occurred in the past if the processes under consideration really were uniform over the necessary length of time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Thus, it may be that the problem with uniformity as scientists know it is simply one of generalizing too soon, upon too small a sample. If, instead of a period of a few hundred years, the sample period were taken over enough thousands of years to include the whole life cycle of a world like ours, from creation to glorification, allowing for the operations of the power of God to bring about the desired changes throughout that whole period, then the principle of uniformity might seem to be perfectly sound, at least so far as it appears to us from modern revelation.

Within this enlarged view of a celestial uniformity, the worldwide flood of Noah’s time, so upsetting to a restricted secular view, fits easily into place. It is the earth’s baptism. Brigham Young pointed out that the earth “abides the law of its creation, has been baptized with water, will be baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost, and by-and-by will be prepared for the faithful to dwell upon” (in Journal of Discourses, 8:83).

The law for a world such as ours closely parallels the law for its inhabitants. Like each of us, the earth existed for a time in the presence of God in a premortal, uncorrupted condition. Like each of us, it entered a fallen, mortal condition. Like us, it must be sanctified by being born again, first of the water and then of the Spirit. The earth has been cleansed by water baptism, and its cleansing by fire associated with the last days will allow the Holy Spirit to dwell throughout the whole earth during the Millennium when the earth, not yet glorified, will be sanctified. For the earth, as for us, the work of salvation can only be completed through death, which will alter its mortal structure, followed by a glorious resurrection, which will establish it upon celestial principles that it may abide in that glory forever.

[teddyaware]

There is a precedent for this.  Remember that Kal-El built a large crystal fortress using only Kryptonian technology in just a few minutes.  That being the case, I don't see any reason that a divine being couldn't transform an entire planet using Kolobian technology within 24 hours.  The math works out just about right.

Are you LDS? And if you're not, how would you describe your religious beliefs?

Edited January 10, 2014 by teddyaware

[cinepro]

Are you LDS? And if you're not, how would you describe your religious beliefs?

 

I'm LDS.

[The Nehor]

There is a precedent for this.  Remember that Kal-El built a large crystal fortress using only Kryptonian technology in just a few minutes.  That being the case, I don't see any reason that a divine being couldn't transform an entire planet using Kolobian technology within 24 hours.  The math works out just about right.

 

The difference is that Krypton's fortress are not forever burning proving that Kolob is way ahead of Krypton on the technology curve.