The New Earth

[Ahab]

Like crystal =how this planet will look without any polution. From space it already looks pretty good but when it is cleansed it's going to look even better.

Urim & Thummim = an object that reveals the truth to those who know how to see with it and those who will live here will be able to see all things pertaining to planets of lower orders by knowing what this planet has been through.

[The Nehor]

Urim & Thummim = an object that reveals the truth to those who know how to see with it and those who will live here will be able to see all things pertaining to planets of lower orders by knowing what this planet has been through.

 

Actually I think it is more likely to be a souped up version of the Star Trek holodeck that lets you see all things by bringing them into being around you.

[changed]

If we will have a new earth, there must have been "old earths" as well. 

That's what I've been saying for awhile now too.

I think there might actually be multiple worlds, all going on at the same time, in different spheres....

When you read accounts like this:

(Old Testament | 2 Kings 6:17)

17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see.  And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

There seems to be multple dimentions, or worlds all going on at once... one eternal round, perhaps the same sort of plan playing out over and over again, just a cycle through different spheres...

 

Edited January 11, 2014 by changed

[teddyaware]

But in all seriousness, the ideas in your OP were explored in this Ensign article:

 

The Gospel and the Scientific Worldview: How the Earth Came to Be

I want to thank you very much for linking that Ensign article. I read it with great interest and with great admiration for the knowledge and perspective of the writer. While I already understood much about  the ideas and principles he presented, it helped me to get a firmer grip on the whole "different laws for different worlds" concept, and the assetion that at certain times, and for His own purposes, the Lord will on occasion bring to bear, on this world, extraordinary works (miracles) that normally pertain a higher order of law.

 

I previously wrote and posted on another thread something I hoped you would have seen and comment upon, but perhaps you missed it. So for your convenience I'll repost it here. But please understand as you read that I do understand scientific methodology demands scientifically observed phenomena must be repeatable in order to be verified. Nevertheless I do believe I may have made a good case for the inevitable merging of science and religion, at least on some special occasions. So here it is...

 

"Among the most important, if elementary, investigative scientific instruments are our five empirical senses. Without the senses of sight, sound, touch, taste, and smell there wouldn't have been even a single scientific discovery.

With this in mind, I quote the following verses of scripture:

2 And he commanded them that they should arise and stand up upon their feet. And they arose up and stood upon their feet.

3 And it came to pass that he brake bread again and blessed it, and gave to the disciples to eat.

4 And when they had eaten he commanded them that they should break bread, and give unto the multitude.

5 And when they had given unto the multitude he also gave them wine to drink, and commanded them that they should give unto the multitude.

6 Now, there had been no bread, neither wine, brought by the disciples, neither by the multitude;

7 But he truly agave unto them bread to eat, and also wine to drink. (3 Nephi 20)

The ancient Americans who participated in the above miraculous administration of the Sacrament used, as a matter of course, their five earthbound senses to discern what took place that day and ...

1 They witnessed with their human eyes there was neither bread nor water present to employ as emblems of the Saviour's sacrificed body. The fact that these people were able to testify there was no bread and wine present was made possible primarily by the sense of sight.

2 They witnessed with those same eyes that the Saviour was able to produce the needed bread and water seemingly out of thin air. They were also able to watch Him as He handled the bread and wine and by this the scientific instrument of sight demonstrated that the bread and wine were real. This is the first scientific demonstration of the bread and wine's reality.

3 If in close enough proximity to the Saviour, they may have very well been able to hear with their ears the light crackling sound as He tore the loaves of bread and the sound of the wine being poured. By this they were able to discern the bread and wine were real. This is the second scientific demonstration of the bread and wine's reality.

4 The people so gathered were able to touch and feel with their hands and/or feel with their mouths that bread and wine were real. This is the third scientific demonstration of the bread and wine's reality.

5. With their tongue and taste buds the people were able to taste the bread and the wine, and because of past experience in tasting bread and wine they were able to discern that the bread and wine were real. This is the fourth scientific demonstration of the bread and wine's reality.

5. With their noses the people were able smell the bread and wine as they partook of it, as smell is closely connected and interrelated with taste. This is the fifth scientific demonstration of the bread and wine's reality.

So by using basic scientific methods, these people were able to observe the very real phenomenon of bread and wine being miraculously produced by the Saviour. Though the people were likely unaware of just how the Lord used a certain scientific methodology to produce the bread and wine, the mere fact that they were able, through their empirical senses, to observe what took place was an experience in very real scientific method. And just because they likely didn't know how the Lord did what He did, they were able to observe what happened and testify to the very real reality of the miracle.

And as any scientist knows, one doesn't have to know the causation of an observation in order to know that something really did occur. Early scientists and physicians were able to observe that people very often got infections after surgeries, so they knew infection following surgery was a real and verifiable phenomenon. But until more powerful and sophisticated scientific instruments were discovered and employed, there was no way of knowing microscopic pathogens caused the infections.

So in this particular instance, science was very much dealing with religion. This is only one of a great many scriptural instances of science intersecting with religion in a very real way. I'm sure you'd never get the Nephites, who witnesses this miracle with their five senses, to say that what they observed wasn't real and that their method for discerning the miracle wasn't scientific (if they knew the meaning of the word).

 

Edited January 11, 2014 by teddyaware

[mfbukowski]

That's what I've been saying for awhile now too.

I think there might actually be multiple worlds, all going on at the same time, in different spheres....

When you read accounts like this:

(Old Testament | 2 Kings 6:17)

17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see.  And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

There seems to be multple dimentions, or worlds all going on at once... one eternal round, perhaps the same sort of plan playing out over and over again, just a cycle through different spheres...

 

Absolutely. 

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-

 

[cinepro]

I want to thank you very much for linking that Ensign article. I read it with great interest and with great admiration for the knowledge and perspective of the writer. While I already understood much about  the ideas and principles he presented, it helped me to get a firmer grip on the whole "different laws for different worlds" concept, and the assetion that at certain times, and for His own purposes, the Lord will on occasion bring to bear, on this world, extraordinary works (miracles) that normally pertain a higher order of law.

 

I previously wrote and posted on another thread something I hoped you would have seen and comment upon, but perhaps you missed it. So for your convenience I'll repost it here. But please understand as you read that I do understand scientific methodology demands scientifically observed phenomena must be repeatable in order to be verified. Nevertheless I do believe I may have made a good case for the inevitable merging of science and religion, at least on some special occasions. So here it is...

 

"Among the most important, if elementary, investigative scientific instruments are our five empirical senses. Without the senses of sight, sound, touch, taste, and smell there wouldn't have been even a single scientific discovery.

With this in mind, I quote the following verses of scripture:

2 And he commanded them that they should arise and stand up upon their feet. And they arose up and stood upon their feet.

3 And it came to pass that he brake bread again and blessed it, and gave to the disciples to eat.

4 And when they had eaten he commanded them that they should break bread, and give unto the multitude.

5 And when they had given unto the multitude he also gave them wine to drink, and commanded them that they should give unto the multitude.

6 Now, there had been no bread, neither wine, brought by the disciples, neither by the multitude;

7 But he truly agave unto them bread to eat, and also wine to drink. (3 Nephi 20)

The ancient Americans who participated in the above miraculous administration of the Sacrament used, as a matter of course, their five earthbound senses to discern what took place that day and ...

1 They witnessed with their human eyes there was neither bread nor water present to employ as emblems of the Saviour's sacrificed body. The fact that these people were able to testify there was no bread and wine present was made possible primarily by the sense of sight.

2 They witnessed with those same eyes that the Saviour was able to produce the needed bread and water seemingly out of thin air. They were also able to watch Him as He handled the bread and wine and by this the scientific instrument of sight demonstrated that the bread and wine were real. This is the first scientific demonstration of the bread and wine's reality.

3 If in close enough proximity to the Saviour, they may have very well been able to hear with their ears the light crackling sound as He tore the loaves of bread and the sound of the wine being poured. By this they were able to discern the bread and wine were real. This is the second scientific demonstration of the bread and wine's reality.

4 The people so gathered were able to touch and feel with their hands and/or feel with their mouths that bread and wine were real. This is the third scientific demonstration of the bread and wine's reality.

5. With their tongue and taste buds the people were able to taste the bread and the wine, and because of past experience in tasting bread and wine they were able to discern that the bread and wine were real. This is the fourth scientific demonstration of the bread and wine's reality.

5. With their noses the people were able smell the bread and wine as they partook of it, as smell is closely connected and interrelated with taste. This is the fifth scientific demonstration of the bread and wine's reality.

So by using basic scientific methods, these people were able to observe the very real phenomenon of bread and wine being miraculously produced by the Saviour. Though the people were likely unaware of just how the Lord used a certain scientific methodology to produce the bread and wine, the mere fact that they were able, through their empirical senses, to observe what took place was an experience in very real scientific method. And just because they likely didn't know how the Lord did what He did, they were able to observe what happened and testify to the very real reality of the miracle.

And as any scientist knows, one doesn't have to know the causation of an observation in order to know that something really did occur. Early scientists and physicians were able to observe that people very often got infections after surgeries, so they knew infection following surgery was a real and verifiable phenomenon. But until more powerful and sophisticated scientific instruments were discovered and employed, there was no way of knowing microscopic pathogens caused the infections.

So in this particular instance, science was very much dealing with religion. This is only one of a great many scriptural instances of science intersecting with religion in a very real way. I'm sure you'd never get the Nephites, who witnesses this miracle with their five senses, to say that what they observed wasn't real and that their method for discerning the miracle wasn't scientific (if they knew the meaning of the word).

 

 

Unfortunately, scripture is an extreme form of anecdotal evidence, and it isn't scientific.

[teddyaware]

Unfortunately, scripture is an extreme form of anecdotal evidence, and it isn't scientific.

I presume because I wasn't clear enough you missed the point I was trying to make. My point is that if this event really did happen to the Nephites who witnessed it, they knew with something approaching, or perhaps even surpassing scientific certainty, that Christ miraculously produced the bread and wine. These witnesses used several of the same, if rudimentary,  scientific instruments scientists have used for millennia (the five senses) to observe and certify that observable phenomena actually took place. So, if true, for these people science and religion intersected in a most dramatic and memorable way.

 

So this begs the following question: If the Saviour descended from the sky, right in front of your eyes, and subsequently produced water and wine in the same miraculous fashion, would you, as someone with a scientific background (I presume), be able to solemnly testify to present and future generations that the Lord did indeed miraculously produce bread and wine? Or would your discipline as a scientist prohibit you from testifying to the miracles' verity because the demonstration didn't satisfy enough scientific criteria?  

Edited January 12, 2014 by teddyaware

[teddyaware]

I presume because I wasn't clear enough you missed the point I was trying to make. My point is that if this event really did happen to the Nephites who witnessed it, they knew with something approaching, or perhaps even surpassing scientific certainty, that Christ miraculously produced the bread and wine. These witnesses used several of the same, if rudimentary,  scientific instruments scientists have used for millennia (the five senses) to observe and certify that observable phenomena actually took place. So, if true, for these people science and religion intersected in a most dramatic and memorable way.

 

So this begs the following question: If the Saviour descended from the sky, right in front of your eyes, and subsequently produced water and wine in the same miraculous fashion, would you, as someone with a scientific background (I presume), be able to solemnly testify to present and future generations that the Lord did indeed miraculously produce bread and wine? Or would your discipline as a scientist prohibit you from testifying to the miracles' verity because the demonstration didn't satisfy enough scientific criteria?

I'm still waiting for answers to the two questions I asked in the above post's last paragraph.

[mfbukowski]

I'm still waiting for answers to the two questions I asked in the above post's last paragraph.

I did my best in the new thread

[teddyaware]

I did my best in the new thread

I read your always thoughtful answers there.