Alan Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 I have just finished reading this book and wondered whether anyone else here has read it, and if so, what they thought of it. I found it interesting. I also found myself wanting to believe this man's claimed experience but not quite being able to. There appeared to be some inconsistencies in the story which bothered me throughout. But, as I said, I would be very interested in hearing from anyone who has read it.
Calm Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 http://www.fairblog.org/2013/05/31/greg-smith-reviews-john-pontius-book-visions-of-glory/
Calm Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 I believe I read his Following the Light of Christ a number of years ago. If it is the one I am thinking of (and the reviews seem to indicate that), while I felt he was sincere and wanting to help, I felt his approach was too 'follow a list'.
CMZ Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 I just found this thread because I saw this book mentioned in a Books and Things mailing I got today. If the guy relating this vision "claims he will receive authority independent of the Church and its leaders" then why is an LDS bookseller touching this with a 10-foot pole? No, I don't believe that "LDS booksellers" are perfect but it seems they should've caught on to this particular book by now. Oh, well. I suppose the emphasis is on "seller." 1
djones Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 I read it. At first I thought it was amazing. Upon a 2nd reading though things just didn't set well with me. I really think the man fell into the "even the elect will be deceived" category. There were 9 truths and 1 lie throughout the whole book. The Fairblog link above is a good and accurate review of the book. I must say that it would be cool if some of the things he wrote about really do happen but there are some other things in there that are WAY out there like time travel and teleportation, etc. If you read this book take it with a BIG grain of salt. 2
teddyaware Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) I read it. At first I thought it was amazing. Upon a 2nd reading though things just didn't set well with me. I really think the man fell into the "even the elect will be deceived" category. There were 9 truths and 1 lie throughout the whole book. The Fairblog link above is a good and accurate review of the book. I must say that it would be cool if some of the things he wrote about really do happen but there are some other things in there that are WAY out there like time travel and teleportation, etc. If you read this book take it with a BIG grain of salt. Just back from reading some selections from the book that I found on Amazon. While I'm skeptical, I didn't read anything in several pages that seemed to be at variance with the gospel. I'd appreciate it if you or someone else could post some quotes directly from the book that rang your internal alarm bell. In other words, if you have the book on hand, post some of the wacky passages so I can see why the book seems to make people feel uneasy. Edited January 17, 2014 by teddyaware
CMZ Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Just back from reading some selections from the book that I found on Amazon. While I'm skeptical, I didn't read anything in several pages that seemed to be at variance with the gospel. I'd appreciate it if you or someone else could post some quotes directly from the book that rang your internal alarm bell. In other words, if you have the book on hand, post some of the wacky passages so I can see why the book seems to make people feel uneasy. More excerpts can be found here: http://www.fairblog.org/2013/05/31/greg-smith-reviews-john-pontius-book-visions-of-glory/ That FAIR article seemed to confirm my suspicion of the book pretty much being priestcraft. More of the, "The Church isn't doing enough, so it needs really spiritual people like me" ilk. While reading the FAIR article I started wondering if perhaps the book was even a complete fabrication. And indeed the article gives some reason to believe that the book was wholly made up. 1
djones Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Agreed. The author died shortly after writing the book. What if he knew he was on his way out and this was his life insurance policy? The book has done very well and if he made the whole thing up he would have nothing to lose if he was dying when he wrote it. That's actually kind of brilliant if you think about it. And if he did make it up, perhaps he justified intentionally deceiving people by thinking that it would be a good sieve to filter out the weak hands who would just believe it at face value VS those who would take it to the Lord and ask. When you first read it you WANT it to be true. It's a thrilling book to read no two ways about it.
The Nehor Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 My BS meter is ringing. Mine has triggered a red alert, raised shields, and is about to fire phasers to incinerate the book. 1
Alan Posted January 17, 2014 Author Posted January 17, 2014 Interesting comments.The contents of the book are, it is claimed, from an unidentified source. The author is apparently interpreting the words given him by this individual. So I have my suspicions.However, I do think some of the criticisms levelled at the book over on the fair site are unjustified. In fact, I found it difficult to believe the reviewer had actually read the whole book.
rodheadlee Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Interesting comments.The contents of the book are, it is claimed, from an unidentified source. The author is apparently interpreting the words given him by this individual. So I have my suspicions.However, I do think some of the criticisms levelled at the book over on the fair site are unjustified. In fact, I found it difficult to believe the reviewer had actually read the whole book.Well, to be fair I based my comment on the review not the book.
jwhitlock Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Read the book, and also read the FAIR review, which points out some significant issues. Whether it's wholly fabricated or only partially "enhanced" (I don't think it's entirely true), is not apparent to me at this point. However, there is a blog associated with the book where "Spencer" sometimes posts. You can get a bit more of the flavor of things there. Seems to have a number of people following it. For those who have read the book, I'd like to know what you thought is possibly true, and what seems to be fabricated. For instance, the part about people from the lost 10 tribes living in caves under the earth above the arctic circle seemed too much based on Mormon urban legend for me to be comfortable with.
cinepro Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) For a book like this, isn't this kind of the entire reason we have "prayer"? I would hope to read Amazon reviews where people simply say "I prayed about it, and it's true", or "I prayed about it, and it's false". The attitude people take towards these things seem to reflect a great deal of the reader's own feelings towards the institutional LDS Church and its culture and traditions, as if that were the standard against which all such things should be judged. It just seems odd for LDS to have such a powerful, infallible tool at our disposal for just this purpose, but to be so reluctant to actually use it. Edited January 21, 2014 by cinepro 2
jwhitlock Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 For a book like this, isn't this kind of the entire reason we have "prayer"? I would hope to read Amazon reviews where people simply say "I prayed about it, and it's true", or "I prayed about it, and it's false". The attitude people take towards these things seem to reflect a great deal of the reader's own feelings towards the institutional LDS Church and its culture and traditions, as if that were the standard against which all such things should be judged. It just seems odd for LDS to have such a powerful, infallible tool at our disposal for just this purpose, but to be so reluctant to actually use it. You misunderstand the process and purpose of prayer in a case like this. There's a need to study it out and come to some conclusions based on not only prayer and the Spirit, but also a variety of other measuring sticks. For me, at least, there are some uncomfortable inconsistencies in the account that make me step back.
The Nehor Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 There's a need to study it out and come to some conclusions based on not only prayer and the Spirit, but also a variety of other measuring sticks. Not really. I don't need to study this out at all. It just seems odd for LDS to have such a powerful, infallible tool at our disposal for just this purpose, but to be so reluctant to actually use it. I feel I would offend God by asking unless I asked as a joke.
jwhitlock Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 For anyone interested, here's a review of the book in Meridian Magazine.
cinepro Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) You misunderstand the process and purpose of prayer in a case like this. There's a need to study it out and come to some conclusions based on not only prayer and the Spirit, but also a variety of other measuring sticks. For me, at least, there are some uncomfortable inconsistencies in the account that make me step back. What's "a case like this"? Moroni's promise extends to all things. Many people use your same methodology to find the Book of Mormon false. They study it out, use their logic and existing religious beliefs, and determine that it isn't true. You may not have understood why Moroni's promise fails for so many people, but you sure explained it well nevertheless. Here's how Moroni's Promise would be applied to "Visions of Glory": 1. Talk with a friend or family member who firmly believes the claims and teachings in the book.2. Have that friend or family member intensely share with you their feelings about the book.3. Read a few paragraphs and pages selected by your friend.4. See if those paragraphs or pages make you feel good.5. Your friend tells you that those good feelings are God telling you the book's stories and teachings are "true".6. Pray and ask God if the book is "true".7. If you get a good feeling during or after your prayer, this is God telling you the book is "true".8. If you get no feeling at all, then it's possible that you weren't open to the idea of the book being "true", and God won't tell you it's true if you aren't willing to accept it. Keep reading and praying until the spirit testifies of the book to you.9. If you get a bad feeling, that's probably Satan trying to keep you away from the truths in the book. Ignore the bad feelings. It may also be reaction to the teachings of the book which contradict some of the false beliefs you currently hold. Keep reading and praying until the spirit testifies of the book to you.10. Once you've had the "good" feeling that is the spirit telling you the book is true, you should stand firm in this belief for the rest of your life. Share your strong conviction with others, and if you ever start to doubt, it's probably because you have stopped reading the book, or allowed naysayers and anti-Visions of Glory haters get into your mind. That also raises the issue of anti-VOG naysayers. Remember that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about building people up and doing good. Why would anyone need to tear down another person's beliefs and experiences? Certainly, VOG doesn't! Visions of Glory invites people to read, learn and add to the truths they already have. The haters should stop trying to tear down what VOG has done, and instead go and create their own program that does just as much good...but they can't. So they just attack and spread negativity. They'll even say that they do it out of "love" and "concern", but their attacks betray their true intentions. Edited January 21, 2014 by cinepro 2
jwhitlock Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 What's "a case like this"? Moroni's promise extends to all things. Many people use your same methodology to find the Book of Mormon false. They study it out, use their logic and existing religious beliefs, and determine that it isn't true. You may not have understood why Moroni's promise fails for so many people, but you sure explained it well nevertheless. Here's how Moroni's Promise would be applied to "Visions of Glory": 1. Talk with a friend or family member who firmly believes the claims and teachings in the book.2. Have that friend or family member intensely share with you their feelings about the book.3. Read a few paragraphs and pages selected by your friend.4. See if those paragraphs or pages make you feel good.5. Your friend tells you that those good feelings are God telling you the book's stories and teachings are "true".6. Pray and ask God if the book is "true".7. If you get a good feeling during or after your prayer, this is God telling you the book is "true".8. If you get no feeling at all, then it's possible that you weren't open to the idea of the book being "true", and God won't tell you it's true if you aren't willing to accept it. Keep reading and praying until the spirit testifies of the book to you.9. If you get a bad feeling, that's probably Satan trying to keep you away from the truths in the book. Ignore the bad feelings. It may also be reaction to the teachings of the book which contradict some of the false beliefs you currently hold. Keep reading and praying until the spirit testifies of the book to you.10. Once you've had the "good" feeling that is the spirit telling you the book is true, you should stand firm in this belief for the rest of your life. Share your strong conviction with others, and if you ever start to doubt, it's probably because you have stopped reading the book, or allowed naysayers and anti-Visions of Glory haters get into your mind. That also raises the issue of anti-VOG naysayers. Remember that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about building people up and doing good. Why would anyone need to tear down another person's beliefs and experiences? Certainly, VOG doesn't! Visions of Glory invites people to read, learn and add to the truths they already have. The haters should stop trying to tear down what VOG has done, and instead go and create their own program that does just as much good...but they can't. So they just attack and spread negativity. They'll even say that they do it out of "love" and "concern", but their attacks betray their true intentions. Nope, your parody is totally off the mark. Thanks for playing.
Senator Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 What's "a case like this"? Moroni's promise extends to all things. Many people use your same methodology to find the Book of Mormon false. They study it out, use their logic and existing religious beliefs, and determine that it isn't true. You may not have understood why Moroni's promise fails for so many people, but you sure explained it well nevertheless. Here's how Moroni's Promise would be applied to "Visions of Glory": 1. Talk with a friend or family member who firmly believes the claims and teachings in the book.2. Have that friend or family member intensely share with you their feelings about the book.3. Read a few paragraphs and pages selected by your friend.4. See if those paragraphs or pages make you feel good.5. Your friend tells you that those good feelings are God telling you the book's stories and teachings are "true".6. Pray and ask God if the book is "true".7. If you get a good feeling during or after your prayer, this is God telling you the book is "true".8. If you get no feeling at all, then it's possible that you weren't open to the idea of the book being "true", and God won't tell you it's true if you aren't willing to accept it. Keep reading and praying until the spirit testifies of the book to you.9. If you get a bad feeling, that's probably Satan trying to keep you away from the truths in the book. Ignore the bad feelings. It may also be reaction to the teachings of the book which contradict some of the false beliefs you currently hold. Keep reading and praying until the spirit testifies of the book to you.10. Once you've had the "good" feeling that is the spirit telling you the book is true, you should stand firm in this belief for the rest of your life. Share your strong conviction with others, and if you ever start to doubt, it's probably because you have stopped reading the book, or allowed naysayers and anti-Visions of Glory haters get into your mind. That also raises the issue of anti-VOG naysayers. Remember that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about building people up and doing good. Why would anyone need to tear down another person's beliefs and experiences? Certainly, VOG doesn't! Visions of Glory invites people to read, learn and add to the truths they already have. The haters should stop trying to tear down what VOG has done, and instead go and create their own program that does just as much good...but they can't. So they just attack and spread negativity. They'll even say that they do it out of "love" and "concern", but their attacks betray their true intentions. You are good!
jwhitlock Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 You are good! Of course he is.He writes very well when he mocks Mormonism. However, he doesn't demonstrate much beyond that.
Senator Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Of course he is.He writes very well when he mocks Mormonism. However, he doesn't demonstrate much beyond that. That's in the eye of the beholder.
jwhitlock Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 That's in the eye of the beholder. Hardly. In this particular mocking parody, he was talking about something that I have experience in. He writes well to mock, but there's not any real depth of understanding in it.
Senator Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Hardly. In this particular mocking parody, he was talking about something that I have experience in. Which is?
jwhitlock Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Which is? Successful application of Moroni 10.
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