Need To Know Some Info..

[midwidtash]

hi guys. 

 

i apologise firstly, for not actually belonging to the faith. But i had some questions and was thinking the best place to come is where you all are. So here goes.

 

let me give you some background so you understand more of what i know. 

 

a good friend of mine, who we shall call missy, was born into a family of the mormon faith. thats fine. she believed up until she hit her teens i think and then she apparently went through an emo stage of her life. deep depression and bad things. she met a man who helped her get out of that funk. he brought her out of the despair she was caught in and made her the bright bubbly person i know today. those two are now engaged. so recently, missy decided that she would re-ignite her faith. it was like being hit by a mack truck for her poor fiance, who is not a believer. im not sure what he believes in. but she wants him to convert. and he is refusing. so she is now saying that he either must convert, or she will leave him.

 

now im not an expert in religion or anything, but to me is this a bit extreme? in my opinion, when you are accepting of a marriage proposal, it means you love that person so much AS THEY ARE. if you want them to change, you should be honest in your motives. you dont marry anyone and expect that they will change to what you want them to. what do you think? 

 

can anyone give me 100% honest answers please? they are both dear friends to my partner and i and i dont want to take sides, but some things she is saying just dont add up. they dont align with the concept of christianity i know. i also would like to know more about what mormons believe and what priesthood is and is it mandatory. 

[Storm Rider]

Welcome to the the Board; there are a lot of Latter-day Saints and non-Latter-day Saints here so you will find as much assistance as you desire.  If you want to know what Latter-day Saints (LDS) believe you could also visit www.lds.org for a summary.  

 

I am not sure of the topic when you say that things don't add up with your concept of Christianity; could you elaborate on the specific topics?

 

The fundamentals of the faith begin and end with Jesus Christ; he is our Savior, Master, and Lord; everything else is a subset of that belief.  

 

The Church of Jesus Christ teaches that there is a priesthood that is received by the laying on of hands; this priesthood is the sealing power and all ordinances must be accomplished by one having this authority to have eternal value.  We have a lay priesthood; all worthy males are ordained and serve others through this calling.  

 

The family unit is of primary importance to LDS.  We believe in eternal families and we seek after after this.  I suspect that this young person is thinking of marriage in this context and places a value on having a husband that holds the priesthood.  It is not uncommon within the families of the Church to see one member of a couple to be a member and another to not belong to the Church. Even though many individuals will fall in love with someone that is not a member, it can cause problems if the individual then wants the nonmember to convert to the Church. It can create conflict for those that have their own strong beliefs and preferences.  It is great that this is being talked discussed now and hopefully an understanding of what is important, or what are each individual's priorities rather than even later in the relationship.  

 

Please feel free to speak frankly; the more you share the easier it will be to provide answers.

[Calm]

For information on our beliefs and practices, I would suggest visiting

 

http://mormon.org/

 

 

A basic manual that we use for new converts and investigators is available here:

 

http://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles?lang=eng

 

As to why she might feel strongly about being married to someone of her own faith enough to make that a dealbreaker in the relationship, statistics demonstrate a high failure rate for marriages of mixed faiths (three times as likely when one partner is LDS) while if both partners are LDS, there is a higher than average rate of staying together.  She is also probably looking forward to an eternal marriage as LDS believe one needs to be sealed in the temple to each other in order to continue to be married and be able to live as a family in the eternities.  

 

http://mormon.org/faq/topic/marriage/question/together-forever

 

in my opinion, when you are accepting of a marriage proposal, it means you love that person so much AS THEY ARE. if you want them to change, you should be honest in your motives. you dont marry anyone and expect that they will change to what you want them to. what do you think? 

 

I would agree, however people do change over time and marriages must be flexible enough to meet that reality while also understanding that there will be changes that are unacceptable and would destroy the marriage (such as infidelity in many cases).  Also if she has reawakened this desire to have a temple marriage from her youth, surely it is better now than to happen after they are married where it might create some resentment between them.

 

The Priesthood is the authority of God to act for him on this earth.  It is not mandatory, but generally accepted by all worthy men and young men (one can first receive it at the age of 12).  A man must be given the Priesthood in order to go to the temple and therefore in order to have a temple marriage.

 

http://mormon.org/faq/topic/priesthood/question/purpose-of-priesthood

Edited October 20, 2013 by calmoriah

[Calm]

On mixed faith marriages:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/04/AR2010060402011.html

 

I just noticed that Jack is mentioned in that article, as it happens, she came and stayed with us right after her husband walked out on their marriage.  It was horrible watching her go through that pain and anger, still brings tears to my eyes even knowing they have been able to make it work.  They just had their second child.

 

http://www.npr.org/2013/04/10/176802652/til-faith-do-us-part-the-price-of-interfaith-marriage

 

Note here that LDS (Mormons) are the least likely to intermarry because of their belief in eternal marriages.  Also that those in interfaith marriages are generally convinced that their partner will convert (if not in this life, in the next).

 

http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/04/18/what-mormons-can-teach-us-about-interfaith-marriage/

 

http://janariess.religionnews.com/2013/05/07/why-mormons-have-the-lowest-rates-of-interfaith-marriage/

[Jazzdreamer]

hi guys.

i apologise firstly, for not actually belonging to the faith. But i had some questions and was thinking the best place to come is where you all are. So here goes.

let me give you some background so you understand more of what i know.

a good friend of mine, who we shall call missy, was born into a family of the mormon faith. thats fine. she believed up until she hit her teens i think and then she apparently went through an emo stage of her life. deep depression and bad things. she met a man who helped her get out of that funk. he brought her out of the despair she was caught in and made her the bright bubbly person i know today. those two are now engaged. so recently, missy decided that she would re-ignite her faith. it was like being hit by a mack truck for her poor fiance, who is not a believer. im not sure what he believes in. but she wants him to convert. and he is refusing. so she is now saying that he either must convert, or she will leave him.

now im not an expert in religion or anything, but to me is this a bit extreme? in my opinion, when you are accepting of a marriage proposal, it means you love that person so much AS THEY ARE. if you want them to change, you should be honest in your motives. you dont marry anyone and expect that they will change to what you want them to. what do you think?

can anyone give me 100% honest answers please? they are both dear friends to my partner and i and i dont want to take sides, but some things she is saying just dont add up. they dont align with the concept of christianity i know. i also would like to know more about what mormons believe and what priesthood is and is it mandatory.

Okay first off let me just say hi

Alright so, as far as your friend....Mormons are taught that to be with your eternal family, you should be sealed together. And it's something very important and special. It's a blessing that we can have our family for all eternity.

Personally what she said to him wasn't very kind. She should try doing her missionary work a different way instead. I get that she wants him to convert but you can't force a person into something they don't want.

Maybe there is more to the story than you know?

The best advice I can give is to be there for her and keep being a caring friend as it appears you already are.

[rpn]

The LDS faith is as much a lifestyle as it is a faith.  Members are expected to accept responsibilities to reach out to several other women monthly and serve them as needed (called Visiting Teaching), have Family Home Evening (strengthen the family relationships) weekly; attend 3 hours of church each sunday; perhaps serve as an advisor or teacher or leader in a youth organization for another 2 hours on a weekday plus sometimes chaperone other activities which occur a couple weekends a month, and a couple weeks during the summer for camp and youth conference.   Then there is paying tithing ---ten percent of increase, and fast offerings (generously the amount one would have spent on the food they don't eat for 24 hours ---two meals) once per month).   Members are involved in service --- to the poor or sad or sick, to the community PTA, non-profits, etc., regularly, and they often take along their children (which they tend to have more than most people in the community).   Education is a high priority, so many families (with lots of kids) are involved in music lessons and cultural events.   Oh, and they pray individually morning and night, as families morning and night and at each meal.  They read scriptures by themselves and with family every day, and twice a year they spend 10 hours over two days listening to the counsel of leaders they deem prophets and apostles (and their women counterparts) .  And they don't drink coffee, tea or alcohol.   (There are other commandments and recommendations.)    It is not easy for non-members to be okay with their spouses and families doing all this stuff, particularly if it is not activities and actions with which they actually agree and will joyfully participate in.  

 

Church members are certainly allowed to marry anyone they wish.   And marrying another member does not guarantee a good marriage or even the forever through the eternity marriage that is intended when those members chose not just to marry, but to do so in a temple of God for that purpose. 

 

Most members know of good marriages between members and non-members (though they do not exist without compromises that members are not comfortable with and without longing for the promise of being eternally together which requires not just membership, but also acting faithfully in following Christ and receiving required ordinances for a lifetime)  But  choosing to marry someone who does not share knowledge and understanding of God's Plan of Happiness is risky in many ways, risky spiritually, risky because of potential contention that will be witnessed by children, risky just because marriage is hard enough when both start out on the first page.

 

The woman's fiance is very smart NOT to agree to join the church if he doesn't believe it is true and want to live the covenants.   Too many people make covenants without intending to or wanting to  keep them because they think they cannot live without the other person.   (There is a book called 300 questiions LDS couples should ask themselves, available at amazon.   Some think it redundant, or cheesy, but  it would be a good thing to give your friend to look at to see if he has considered all those things.   It will help him understand whether he would even want to marry the woman.)   So the woman shouldn't have given an ultimatum like what you describe.  But if the woman has determined that she wants to fully live her faith and her fiance does not want her to do that, or will not share that with her, better for all to find that out before a marriage rather than after one.  

 

Members are taught to make life decisions prayerfully.   Hopefully she is doing that.   Thank you for being their friend and coming to members for perspective.

Edited October 20, 2013 by rpn

[Garden Girl]

Hello mid...

You've received some thoughtful comments and suggestions here... I agree she should not bluntly state an ultimatum... rather, she should explain to your friend how important it is for her to live her religion and why... and invite him to gain more information about the Church if he is willing to do so... arrangements can be made for the missionaries to give the "discussions" which explain the theology... but most of all, your friend should not agree to join a Church, any Church, for someone else... but particularly the Mormon church because it is a way of life... of thinking... we make covenants with our Heavenly Father that are very serious and affect us spiritually if broken... 

Calmoriah has provided several links to Church publications that should definitely be given to your friend to consider if this is to go any further between your friend and the young lady...

People here are always glad to answer sincere questions... although I suggest that you post additional questions in the General Discussions forum because this "Social" Forum is just that, for social exchanges vs deeper theological issues... and we have all types of individuals here that enter into discussions... members, non-members, former members, atheists, all who join in discussing things and sometimes it can get lively, although thankfully the moderators keep things from getting out of hand.  We are expected to resspect others' opinions as we expect them to respect ours... with that in mind this Board can be a very intresting and informative place to exchange ideas...

 

I hope you'll look further into some of the resources provided, and come and ask your questions...

All good wishes...

 

GG

 

[ERayR]

hi guys. 

 

i apologise firstly, for not actually belonging to the faith. But i had some questions and was thinking the best place to come is where you all are. So here goes.

 

let me give you some background so you understand more of what i know. 

 

a good friend of mine, who we shall call missy, was born into a family of the mormon faith. thats fine. she believed up until she hit her teens i think and then she apparently went through an emo stage of her life. deep depression and bad things. she met a man who helped her get out of that funk. he brought her out of the despair she was caught in and made her the bright bubbly person i know today. those two are now engaged. so recently, missy decided that she would re-ignite her faith. it was like being hit by a mack truck for her poor fiance, who is not a believer. im not sure what he believes in. but she wants him to convert. and he is refusing. so she is now saying that he either must convert, or she will leave him.

 

now im not an expert in religion or anything, but to me is this a bit extreme? in my opinion, when you are accepting of a marriage proposal, it means you love that person so much AS THEY ARE. if you want them to change, you should be honest in your motives. you dont marry anyone and expect that they will change to what you want them to. what do you think? 

 

can anyone give me 100% honest answers please? they are both dear friends to my partner and i and i dont want to take sides, but some things she is saying just dont add up. they dont align with the concept of christianity i know. i also would like to know more about what mormons believe and what priesthood is and is it mandatory. 

 

Disagreements over religion is often a rock which breaks marriages.  This is one of the biggies that both should agree on before marriage.  If no suitable agreement can b reached they can count themselves fortunate to have found out before marriage and children.  It save a lot of pain and heartbreak later on. 

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

hi guys. 

 

i apologise firstly, for not actually belonging to the faith. But i had some questions and was thinking the best place to come is where you all are. So here goes.

 

let me give you some background so you understand more of what i know. 

 

a good friend of mine, who we shall call missy, was born into a family of the mormon faith. thats fine. she believed up until she hit her teens i think and then she apparently went through an emo stage of her life. deep depression and bad things. she met a man who helped her get out of that funk. he brought her out of the despair she was caught in and made her the bright bubbly person i know today. those two are now engaged. so recently, missy decided that she would re-ignite her faith. it was like being hit by a mack truck for her poor fiance, who is not a believer. im not sure what he believes in. but she wants him to convert. and he is refusing. so she is now saying that he either must convert, or she will leave him.

 

now im not an expert in religion or anything, but to me is this a bit extreme? in my opinion, when you are accepting of a marriage proposal, it means you love that person so much AS THEY ARE. if you want them to change, you should be honest in your motives. you dont marry anyone and expect that they will change to what you want them to. what do you think? 

 

can anyone give me 100% honest answers please? they are both dear friends to my partner and i and i dont want to take sides, but some things she is saying just dont add up. they dont align with the concept of christianity i know. i also would like to know more about what mormons believe and what priesthood is and is it mandatory.

No one remains "as they are", we are all evolving. My wife and I have been married for 38 years, we are not the same people we were at 18 and 19, when we married. If their relationship is going to end, now is the time, as with divorce (especially when children come along) everybody looses badly. Because this is your first post and non of us know the two people, none of us are qualified to make a judgement.

[midwidtash]

Hi guys. 

 

Thanks so much for your responses. it did answer a few things i had pending in my head. I am not religious, but I will not slander anything without just cause. to me, it seems that some people are open minded and accepting of those without faith. then there are the few who have to take it too far and spread a message of the wrong concept about the faith. Thanks so much once again for the input. sadly, i report that my two friends are parting ways. It seems she is sticking to her ultimatum of 'convert of i will leave you'. which to me, is wrong. Its not like he is telling her to give it up for him. he wants her to be happy. and she wont be happy if he isnt doing as she commands him to. yes i know it sounds bad but there isnt anything i can do at this point. 

[rpn]

Remember that to her (probably) it is more like I want to be married to someone who can take me to the temple for eternity, rather than I think people who don't share my faith are less than me.  

[thesometimesaint]

Marry in haste, repent at leasure.

[midwidtash]

the worst thing is that she is the one  breaking up with him, but shes waiting for him to say it because then she can turn around and tell people that he broke up with her because he didnt like her religion. when the truth is that she broke up with him because he wouldnt give up his beliefs and force her to change like shes doing to him. 

[ERayR]

Hi guys. 

 

Thanks so much for your responses. it did answer a few things i had pending in my head. I am not religious, but I will not slander anything without just cause. to me, it seems that some people are open minded and accepting of those without faith. then there are the few who have to take it too far and spread a message of the wrong concept about the faith. Thanks so much once again for the input. sadly, i report that my two friends are parting ways. It seems she is sticking to her ultimatum of 'convert of i will leave you'. which to me, is wrong. Its not like he is telling her to give it up for him. he wants her to be happy. and she wont be happy if he isnt doing as she commands him to. yes i know it sounds bad but there isnt anything i can do at this point. 

 

I would disagree with you.  If it is an important part of her life that he does not share then it becomes a very big obstacle.  I think she has taken a very sensible course.  Nether he nor she should ask the other to become something they are not and later when there are children it becomes even bigger. 

[rpn]

Or maybe she is waiting, hoping he will change his mind.  Or maybe she is waiting because she is struggling with it too.  Or maybe she isn't saying anything because there is really no need to tell anyone else when it is between the two of them. 

[Kenngo1969]

Better a breakup than a divorce, any day.  For what it's worth, midwidtash, I believe (and I think most Latter-day Saints do, as well) that if she had rekindled her faith once they married, her obligation to him would be completely different.

[Kenngo1969]

First rule of life - women are crazy. This spans all religions and cultures. 

Ummmm ...  disparagement of fifty percent of the population based on gender ... even in jest ... isn't allowed on this Board and/or in this Forum.  Just sayin' It helps to lurk awhile to get a feel for other posters and/or for what is/is not allowed.(and of course, reading the rules doesn't hurt). 

Edited October 28, 2013 by Kenngo1969

[Daleupton]

This is going to be a great fun for sure...

[thesometimesaint]

Welcome to the Glass Menagerie.

[Calm]

Ummmm ...  disparagement of fifty percent of the population based on gender ... even in jest ... isn't allowed on this Board and/or in this Forum.  Just sayin' It helps to lurk awhile to get a feel for other posters and/or for what is/is not allowed.(and of course, reading the rules doesn't hurt). 

And there's no such post out there so maybe you are crazy Ken!...I was going to point out when 100%  of genetically varied, mostly sound and healthy individuals are labeled crazy, one should look at the source of that claim or the source of the craziness since it is most likely external....but if I take it much further (cough men cough) I might be my post deleted too so I will leave it very, very vague.