Dando Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 I saw this article and found it fascinating http://mormondisclosures.blogspot.com/2013/09/more-good-is-more-lds-foundation.html It very specifically refutes a claim of the More Good Foundation that it is NOT funded with money from the church. Funded by Church?“We support The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in every way, but we are not owned or operated by the Church.” How is the Foundation Funded?While the Foundation is fully supportive of the Church and its mission, it is not directed by or funded through the Church; no Church funds are used for the Foundation. Our funds come through the good graces of individual donors who are interested in seeing us fulfill our goals and make a positive difference with LDS information.” - http://www.moregoodfoundation.org/about Does anyone have any further insights into this?
Dando Posted September 19, 2013 Author Posted September 19, 2013 Here is a link to the site where the story originated. The explanation is a little cleaner here: http://futuremissionary.com/more-good-foundation-gets-450k-from-church-denies-it/ On their about page, they state that “While the Foundation is fully supportive of the Church and its mission, it is not directed by or funded through the Church; no Church funds are used for the Foundation.” This is reiterated on their FAQ page. Though this may be crystal clear on their website, their tax returns tell a different story.
Freedom Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 So they are claiming that a for-profit company owned by the church provides funding for Moor Good, and More Good gives money to Fair, therefore, the church is funding FAIR. Argument being challenges is that the church spends tithing money and other donations on apologetics. This website is moving the goal post so to speak. I see no conflict of interest if a private corporation funded entirely by selling goods and services donates money to a cause. if that cause then donates funds to a different cause, the connection to the original giver is rather weak.
The Nehor Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Someone did no research. The address is the Deseret Management company which takes care of LDS for profit holdings. The LDS Foundation from what I remember is an organization that helps organize and facilitate the distribution of voluntary charitable contributions. My guess is these contributions came from a will or some person or entity contributing money using the foundation to manage the contribution. There is nothing to suggest it is the church's money.
foster Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 The first permanent organization created to raise philanthropic funds for charitable causes of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints came about in 1955 when the BYU Destiny Fund was launched. In 1971, the Church's First Presidency commissioned a successor organization, Church Education Development (CED). This office sought private support for the Church's institutions of higher learning, its seminary and institute programs, and its elementary and secondary school systems. In 1982, CED's name was changed to LDS Foundation.Since its beginnings, the mission and services of LDS Philanthropies have been continually shaped and refined to better serve the philanthropic needs of members and friends of the Church.
foster Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) In 2005 lds foundation became lds philanthropies Edited September 19, 2013 by foster
foster Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) The question then is what "LDS Foundation of LDS Church"; as was penned years ago "what's in a name?" Tacking "LDS" to a business/entity name does not mean the Church is involved. Edited September 20, 2013 by foster
Dando Posted September 20, 2013 Author Posted September 20, 2013 Whether or not this money is from tithing or free-will offerings seems to be of little difference here. Who controls the "LDS Foundation of the LDS Church"? the words "of the LDS church" seem to indicate that the LDS church operates the foundation and spends the money. Ergo, the money came from the LDS church. I'm not the least bit concerned if the LDS church wants to direct some of its money to FAIR or MGF. It's the blatant dishonesty of the MGF that bothers me. There's no reason for it.
Freedom Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 Whether or not this money is from tithing or free-will offerings seems to be of little difference here. Who controls the "LDS Foundation of the LDS Church"? the words "of the LDS church" seem to indicate that the LDS church operates the foundation and spends the money. Ergo, the money came from the LDS church. I'm not the least bit concerned if the LDS church wants to direct some of its money to FAIR or MGF. It's the blatant dishonesty of the MGF that bothers me. There's no reason for it. If I were to say I do not receive any funding from the ABC non-profit society and you prove that I received a cheque from the ABC Tire manufacturing, would you accuse me of receiving funds from the ABC non-profit society? This is the issue. The critics claim that the church that is funded by tithing is funding FAIR. They are not. You also have to establish why instructed the foundation to donate to FAIR. Since the funds are received from private donors, and since the donors dictate where the funds are to be spent, how can you infer that the church is therefore funding FAIR? There is a difference between funded by the church and being funded by an organized that is controlled by the church. If I own a currier company and I drop off $5,000 at your, would you argue that I personally gave you $5,000?
Mark Beesley Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 Whether or not this money is from tithing or free-will offerings seems to be of little difference here. Who controls the "LDS Foundation of the LDS Church"? the words "of the LDS church" seem to indicate that the LDS church operates the foundation and spends the money. Ergo, the money came from the LDS church. I'm not the least bit concerned if the LDS church wants to direct some of its money to FAIR or MGF. It's the blatant dishonesty of the MGF that bothers me. There's no reason for it. Seems someone is looking for something that isn't there. There is no lie or dishonesty. Take an accounting class. Then go to law school and study tax law and corporations. A donation from LDS Philanthropies or LDS Foundation to the More Good Foundation does not turn into a donation to FAIR if MGF makes such a donation. Furthermore, I see nothing to show that member donations to the LDS Church in the form of tithing, etc. make their way into LDS Philanthropies, or LDS Foundation (or whatever it's called), and that's what y'all are concerned about right? As for any claim the the Church says it does not fund "apologetics," where does the Church say that? What the hell is the entire missionary program if not apologetics??? Get a life folks. You're straining at gnats.
foster Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) Deleted Edited September 20, 2013 by foster
Tacenda Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 In 2005 lds foundation became lds philanthropies http://www.ldsphilanthropies.org/ldsp/about/#topOfPage "You may not be aware that gifts beyond tithing and fast offerings to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its affiliated charities are invited and welcomed. As a donor, your gifts provide the opportunity to receive additional blessings from heaven as you reach out to help feed the hungry, heal the sick, and clothe the naked." The above is a quote at the LDS site. I wonder how much is funded for the hungry, or to heal the sick or clothe the naked...... I underlined the part of the quote that gets under my skin a bit because it seems to be a bribe of blessings. Which makes it something that takes away from the true heart of giving, not to get anything in return. My in-laws donate quite a bit and more than likely when they die, their money will go to the church instead of posterity, they've told their children this. Which is of course their prerogative, but hope it's indeed going to those in need and not on things that will be frivolous or people taking advantage, because my husband's side of the family sure would have benefited. Church History BYU Family Search BYU-Hawaii Latter-day Saint Charities (Humanitarian Services) x BYU-Idaho Missionary Fund LDS Business College Mormon Tabernacle Choir Polynesian Cultural Center Temple Patron and Construction Funds Perpetual Education Fund X I've put an x by the only ones that fit the description of whom will get the donations!!!! I guess the others will fit too, but not as much. One could say that educated people will be able to clothe and feed too. But still, who gets to go to BYU-Hawaii, Idaho, Provo, & LDS College. I went to one of these schools and had to pay good money, so not the poor and needy.
AndyDnom Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 no way to know any of this, because the church discloses nothing about money. it is all kept secret.
Kenngo1969 Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 And the reason for that is because ... Dun-dun-dun!!! ... if it did, that would result in more dissection, discussion, disagreement, etc. about what it does with The Lord's Money in corners of Cyberspace such as this rather than less. Thanks fer playin'!
Mark Beesley Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 no way to know any of this, because the church discloses nothing about money. it is all kept secret.So what? As was observed by a wise sage in another thread: Sorry for picking on your post to rant, but it was convenient. All this crap we have been seeing in the past year or so about transparency in the Church, and things being hidden, etc., its just that -- a bunch of crap. Let's go back to the beginning . . . How many of you remember sitting in on any heavenly councils to make decisions about the creation of a world on which to test mortals? Maybe we did, maybe we didn't, but I'm pretty certain none of us remembers being involved. Why not? Cause God made us forget, so all those eternity shaking decisions might just as well have been conducted in secret because we're only getting as much of the information about them as God wants to reveal. I trust God had a good reason for making us forget our pre-mortal covenants. I used to teach that it was so we could learn to walk by faith. I think that answer may be simplistic. What I do know is that I'm better off trusting God than trying to second-guess Him In any event, God is a God of secrets. He hides things all the time. Why does anyone suppose that HIS Church should operate any differently than He does, with a healthy dose of secrecy? Calls for open disciplinary councils, open financial records, open temple rituals, or anything else that is currently not "open" reveal a basic misunderstanding about why we are here and what is important in life. They also reveal some confusion about who is in charge. As for Mr. Snuffer's individual circumstances . . . No comment. 1
Mark Beesley Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 . . . I underlined the part of the quote that gets under my skin a bit because it seems to be a bribe of blessings. Which makes it something that takes away from the true heart of giving, not to get anything in return. . . . Malachi must really give you fits.Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. Malachi 3:10 3
Dando Posted September 20, 2013 Author Posted September 20, 2013 Furthermore, I see nothing to show that member donations to the LDS Church in the form of tithing, etc. make their way into LDS Philanthropies, or LDS Foundation (or whatever it's called), and that's what y'all are concerned about right? No not at all. The controversy isn't how the church spends tithe money. The controversy is about how the MGF states one thing about the source of its funding while in fact the opposite is true. This isn't about the LDS church. It's about the MGF.
Tacenda Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 Malachi must really give you fits.Well I guess it would and this is a fairly new outlook I've had.
Mark Beesley Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) No not at all. The controversy isn't how the church spends tithe money. The controversy is about how the MGF states one thing about the source of its funding while in fact the opposite is true. This isn't about the LDS church. It's about the MGF.Correction -- There is NO controversy. Sorry to disappoint. (Of course, I guess if I look outside and see it is raining, and you, or futuremissionary, or mormondisclosures or some other naysayer sees what I'm seeing and insists that it is not raining, you could claim that a controversy has arisen. I'd simply agree that we interpret the data differently.) P.S. Have you asked MGF for clarification of their statement? Write a letter. You might be surprised. Edited September 20, 2013 by Mark Beesley 1
Scott Gordon Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 I get it. We found the smoking gun implicating FAIR. In 2006, the MGF made a $2500 donation to FAIR. Then, three years later in 2009, LDS Foundation (which does not deal in tithing monies) made a donation to the MGF. Therefore, the LDS church is really funneling money to FAIR and secretly financing FAIR. The trail is....er...um...er...clear. <cough> Right....... 4
Bob Crockett Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 It is clear to me and the explanation was disingenuous. Better to have said nothing at all, in my opinion, and if that didn't work, explain that MGF is the beneficiary of a church charitable foundation.
Bob Crockett Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 The one offered by MGF, which I believe is the subject of this thread. I hope.
foster Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) Edited. Edited September 20, 2013 by foster
Billy the Law Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 Malachi must really give you fits.Love your ad hominem jabs...keep up the good work.
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