Mormons Starting To Think And Talk Like Protestants

[Tacenda]

I think that in a normal circumstance it would have been ignored. The problem is with the critics who use it to show that the leaders lie. This is the problem. No one is perfect and we should be free to less stress something. But in the internet age, anything can be interpreted with a negative. I feel sorry for the guy. All that good work he did is now forgotten because of a larry king interview. It is a little pathetic.

I give him credit for even giving the interview! I didn't use to enjoy Pres. Hinckley's talks in GC when I was younger, too monotone or something. But when he became the President, I started to really love his talks. I don't think a silly interview can taint him as a man or prophet. As you know he was in public relations for the church or the media, see the snippet below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Hinckley

Work for the church[edit source]

Hinckley returned to the United States in 1935 after having completed a short tour of the European continent, including preaching in both Berlin and Paris. He was given an assignment by his mission president, Joseph F. Merrill, to meet with the church's First Presidency and request that better materials be made available to missionaries for proselytizing purposes. As a result of this meeting, Hinckley received employment as executive secretary of the church's Radio, Publicity and Missionary Literature Committee (he had received schooling as a journalist in college). Hinckley's responsibilities included developing the church's fledgling radio broadcasts and making use of the era's new communication technologies. Starting in 1937, he also served on the Sunday School General Board. After the Second World War Hinckley served as executive secretary to the church's Missionary Committee. He also served as the church's liaison to Deseret Book, working with Deseret Book's liaison to the church, Thomas S. Monson.[4] At various times, especially in the late 1940s, Hinckley was also a reporter for the Church News, a publication of the Deseret News.

Me:

He did a lot of good for the church by giving the interviews I believe.

[The Nehor]

Has not influenced me yet. I am still convinced it is my destiny to rule the Universe and have the elements obey my every whim. I am not a megalomaniac; I am a Mormon.

Or maybe both.

[why me]

I give him credit for even giving the interview! I didn't use to enjoy Pres. Hinckley's talks in GC when I was younger, too monotone or something. But when he became the President, I started to really love his talks. I don't think a silly interview can taint him as a man or prophet. As you know he was in public relations for the church or the media, see the snippet below.

 

This is all true. But the critics bring up his name to imply that he is a liar or that the church lies. This is what makes it all so sad. If one would read his book on morality, one would see a wonderful man who had a strong faith in god. But...critics use the interview to taint him and the church.

[Stone holm]

Has not influenced me yet. I am still convinced it is my destiny to rule the Universe and have the elements obey my every whim. I am not a megalomaniac; I am a Mormon.

Or maybe both.

 

Is there really a difference in our goals?

[The Nehor]

Is there really a difference in our goals?

Mormons seek power that flows to them without compulsion; megalomaniacs lack those scruples.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I'm afraid that I do not know how to respond to that. Within the limits of my understanding the only places that the Bible reveals the nature of Heavenly Father is in the first chapter of Genesis, and the first chapter of John.  I've only just now listened to the King Follet Discourse, and I think it will take more study to fully digest it.

There are may other places that define the nature of the Father, as in..."If you have seen me you have seen the Father". John 1: 18 says no man hath see the Father and any time hath declared him. (Did not put that in quote because it was from memory) and then John 6: 46 (again memory) Not that any man hath seen the Father, except he that is of God, he hath seen the Father". Hope I got those right, I have not read them in a long time.

[Lightbearer]

How is it that we are losing our radical theology and sounding more and more like Protestants.  People are denouncing the King Follett Sermon, and doubting the Snow Couplet.  Is this what we get from sanitizing the lesson materials?

Speak for yourself, I am nothing like a Protestant or a Catholic doctrinally (although morally and in decency we may be very simular) I do not tolerate anyone who tries to "water down" the principles of the restoration and if they do so in my presence I will call them on it. I am a Mormon, a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the doctrine I believe is not taught anywhere else in the world. I do not believe the lessons are "sanitized" just as I do not believe the Church has ever "hidden" anything. It may not parrot what the Anti-Mormons charactature us and say we believe. Some core doctrines for which I believe that there can be no compromise is the teaching that God is a glorified and exalted man and sits enthroned in the heavens. That Jesus Christ is God the Son, meaning the literal son of the Man of Holiness and is our elder brother, meaning that we are also spirit sons and daughters of God created in His image and likeness. That Christ is our savior and also the one who showed us the path we must follow to sit with Him in his throne, even as He overcame and sat down with His Father in His throne. Also that the Holy Ghost is a spirit person, who is the means whereby the Father and Son can sanctify us and make us holy as we obey the Gospel and yes if we pass the test, we can be exalted and become a God... that is big G! The same as the Father, not a "lesser god" or a student god but a jointheir with Christ so that we can do the things He (the Father and the Son) does. We are a race of Gods, meaning we are of the same species. I think that is exactly what the Prophet Joseph tried to teach us and the reason he was killed, the same reason Christ was killed... because of teaching that "he being a man makes himself a god"! This is appauling to our traditional christian friends. But to me it is a glorious doctrine a doctrine that is ennobling and is truly "Good News"! We are not merely grovelling animals but we are the sons of God and if we allow Him Christ will exalt us on high. The world thinks it blaphemous... not me I have thought from my youth that it was the only doctrine that makes any sense of christianity. Without it they only have a dead form of godliness. 

The principle of current revelation of living prophets and apostles and also in the revelation to individual stands to set us apart from traditional christians as well. I love the idea that we have someone like Moses, or Peter, or Paul, or John who are legal administrators instead of scribes and others who claim to teach the word of God from the dead letter of a closed book.

There is quite a difference and no amount of PR or apologetic juggling can change the fact that we proclaim a restoration of the true Church, not just one among many of churches who are all "true" as long as the teach Christ. We believe in the fullness of the Gospel not a pale imitation. Sorry to be so blunt but I am tired of people claiming that the Church is "changing" it's doctrine. (Some may think that but they are wrong). The necessity of the priesthood authority of God is one less "contraversial" doctrine but is a distinctive one that only the Catholics seem to echo. The protestants come up with the phony idea of the "priesthood of all believers" we do not teach such an idea.

I could continue but this is enough of a rant. Suffice it to say that I am a firm believer in the KFD and the Snow couplet, and also the Sermon in the Grove as well.

[Stone holm]

Speak for yourself, I am nothing like a Protestant or a Catholic doctrinally (although morally and in decency we may be very simular) I do not tolerate anyone who tries to "water down" the principles of the restoration and if they do so in my presence I will call them on it. I am a Mormon, a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the doctrine I believe is not taught anywhere else in the world. I do not believe the lessons are "sanitized" just as I do not believe the Church has ever "hidden" anything. It may not parrot what the Anti-Mormons charactature us and say we believe. Some core doctrines for which I believe that there can be no compromise is the teaching that God is a glorified and exalted man and sits enthroned in the heavens. That Jesus Christ is God the Son, meaning the literal son of the Man of Holiness and is our elder brother, meaning that we are also spirit sons and daughters of God created in His image and likeness. That Christ is our savior and also the one who showed us the path we must follow to sit with Him in his throne, even as He overcame and sat down with His Father in His throne. Also that the Holy Ghost is a spirit person, who is the means whereby the Father and Son can sanctify us and make us holy as we obey the Gospel and yes if we pass the test, we can be exalted and become a God... that is big G! The same as the Father, not a "lesser god" or a student god but a jointheir with Christ so that we can do the things He (the Father and the Son) does. We are a race of Gods, meaning we are of the same species. I think that is exactly what the Prophet Joseph tried to teach us and the reason he was killed, the same reason Christ was killed... because of teaching that "he being a man makes himself a god"! This is appauling to our traditional christian friends. But to me it is a glorious doctrine a doctrine that is ennobling and is truly "Good News"! We are not merely grovelling animals but we are the sons of God and if we allow Him Christ will exalt us on high. The world thinks it blaphemous... not me I have thought from my youth that it was the only doctrine that makes any sense of christianity. Without it they only have a dead form of godliness. 

The principle of current revelation of living prophets and apostles and also in the revelation to individual stands to set us apart from traditional christians as well. I love the idea that we have someone like Moses, or Peter, or Paul, or John who are legal administrators instead of scribes and others who claim to teach the word of God from the dead letter of a closed book.

There is quite a difference and no amount of PR or apologetic juggling can change the fact that we proclaim a restoration of the true Church, not just one among many of churches who are all "true" as long as the teach Christ. We believe in the fullness of the Gospel not a pale imitation. Sorry to be so blunt but I am tired of people claiming that the Church is "changing" it's doctrine. (Some may think that but they are wrong). The necessity of the priesthood authority of God is one less "contraversial" doctrine but is a distinctive one that only the Catholics seem to echo. The protestants come up with the phony idea of the "priesthood of all believers" we do not teach such an idea.

I could continue but this is enough of a rant. Suffice it to say that I am a firm believer in the KFD and the Snow couplet, and also the Sermon in the Grove as well.

 

Not speaking for myself -- I too agree with what you have said.  Tend not to see much of that in the manuals those, so I will have to disagree with you on the sanitation issue.  We have plenty of members who are completely clueless on much of the stuff you mentioned, and while it is available, its not part of the pablum or milk being served much these days.  There was considerable truth in what Pres. Hinckley said, "we don't emphasize that very much...."

[Tacenda]

Speak for yourself, I am nothing like a Protestant or a Catholic doctrinally (although morally and in decency we may be very simular) I do not tolerate anyone who tries to "water down" the principles of the restoration and if they do so in my presence I will call them on it. I am a Mormon, a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the doctrine I believe is not taught anywhere else in the world. I do not believe the lessons are "sanitized" just as I do not believe the Church has ever "hidden" anything. It may not parrot what the Anti-Mormons charactature us and say we believe. Some core doctrines for which I believe that there can be no compromise is the teaching that God is a glorified and exalted man and sits enthroned in the heavens. That Jesus Christ is God the Son, meaning the literal son of the Man of Holiness and is our elder brother, meaning that we are also spirit sons and daughters of God created in His image and likeness. That Christ is our savior and also the one who showed us the path we must follow to sit with Him in his throne, even as He overcame and sat down with His Father in His throne. Also that the Holy Ghost is a spirit person, who is the means whereby the Father and Son can sanctify us and make us holy as we obey the Gospel and yes if we pass the test, we can be exalted and become a God... that is big G! The same as the Father, not a "lesser god" or a student god but a jointheir with Christ so that we can do the things He (the Father and the Son) does. We are a race of Gods, meaning we are of the same species. I think that is exactly what the Prophet Joseph tried to teach us and the reason he was killed, the same reason Christ was killed... because of teaching that "he being a man makes himself a god"! This is appauling to our traditional christian friends. But to me it is a glorious doctrine a doctrine that is ennobling and is truly "Good News"! We are not merely grovelling animals but we are the sons of God and if we allow Him Christ will exalt us on high. The world thinks it blaphemous... not me I have thought from my youth that it was the only doctrine that makes any sense of christianity. Without it they only have a dead form of godliness.

The principle of current revelation of living prophets and apostles and also in the revelation to individual stands to set us apart from traditional christians as well. I love the idea that we have someone like Moses, or Peter, or Paul, or John who are legal administrators instead of scribes and others who claim to teach the word of God from the dead letter of a closed book.

There is quite a difference and no amount of PR or apologetic juggling can change the fact that we proclaim a restoration of the true Church, not just one among many of churches who are all "true" as long as the teach Christ. We believe in the fullness of the Gospel not a pale imitation. Sorry to be so blunt but I am tired of people claiming that the Church is "changing" it's doctrine. (Some may think that but they are wrong). The necessity of the priesthood authority of God is one less "contraversial" doctrine but is a distinctive one that only the Catholics seem to echo. The protestants come up with the phony idea of the "priesthood of all believers" we do not teach such an idea.

I could continue but this is enough of a rant. Suffice it to say that I am a firm believer in the KFD and the Snow couplet, and also the Sermon in the Grove as well.

I take it you believe if you become "a" God, you'll need a planet. Or is that incorrect? I like how you don't shy from core beliefs, if indeed you are correct.

[Kenngo1969]

Has not influenced me yet. I am still convinced it is my destiny to rule the Universe and have the elements obey my every whim. I am not a megalomaniac; I am a Mormon.

Or maybe both.

You're a megalomaniacal Mormon!

[The Nehor]

You're a megalomaniacal Mormon!

 

I should start a club.

[Stone holm]

I should start a club.

 

Yes.  A megalomaniac annonymous chapter.  We can apply a 12 step program to cure you, then you can have your own galaxy if you successfully complete the indoctrination.

[Lightbearer]

I take it you believe if you become "a" God, you'll need a planet. Or is that incorrect? I like how you don't shy from core beliefs, if indeed you are correct.

Not just "a planet" I am talking about a Universe... worlds without number. We will populate these worlds with spirit offspring just as our Father and Our God has and we will seek their immortality and eternal life! How could God have more perfect love than that? How could we? Our Father's work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of His children! That is why we are required to love and serve our brothers and sisters. This is not a selfish desire to become as God is! We seek it to expand the work and glory of our Father! Yes I believe that we can become just like our Father... and I do not think it robbery to be exalted and be equal to God the Father. We can inherit all that the Father has, all power and glory just as Christ Himself did. He was our elder brother, and by virtue of His infinite atonement He can make us perfect as He is, we can be join heirs with Him if we have that perfect faith that He has. That is what the purpose of this earth life is, to form us into perfect beings as He and the Father have become. In fact that is what exaltation is about. Read the following and see what you think it is saying:

 

"The worlds were made by him; men were made by him; all things were made by him, and through him, and of him. And I, John, bear record that I beheld his glory, as the glory of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, even the Spirit of truth, which came and dwelt in the flesh, and dwelt among us. And I, John, saw that he received not of the fulness at the first, but received grace for grace; And he received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness; And thus he was called the Son of God, because he received not of the fulness at the first. And I, John, bear record, and lo, the heavens were opened, and the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove, and sat upon him, and there came a voice out of heaven saying: This is my beloved Son. And I, John, bear record that he received a fulness of the glory of the Father; And he received all power, both in heaven and on earth, and the glory of the Father was with him, for he dwelt in him. And it shall come to pass, that if you are faithful you shall receive the fulness of the record of John. I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness. For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace. And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn; And all those who are begotten through me are partakers of the glory of the same, and are the church of the Firstborn. Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth; And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come; And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning. The Spirit of truth is of God. I am the Spirit of truth, and John bore record of me, saying: He received a fulness of truth, yea, even of all truth; And no man receiveth a fulness unless he keepeth his commandments. He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things."(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 93:10-28)

 

[Lightbearer]

Not speaking for myself -- I too agree with what you have said.  Tend not to see much of that in the manuals those, so I will have to disagree with you on the sanitation issue.  We have plenty of members who are completely clueless on much of the stuff you mentioned, and while it is available, its not part of the pablum or milk being served much these days.  There was considerable truth in what Pres. Hinckley said, "we don't emphasize that very much...."

Well the fact that we have the potential to become as God is, is not the same as attaining the gift. The reason we don't seem to "emphasize that very much" is because this type of truth is really worthless if we do not comprehend the light and knowledge necessary to attain it. And this is not done from merely reading a book or thinking about it... we must increase our faith to a point to where we can recieve this light and truth (as I mentioned in another post above). It is not just knowing we can attain it, it is in the doing. We are not going to be exalted unless we have been thoroughly proven and tested in the furnace of affliction and all the sin and pride and corruption is burned from our souls and replaced by the holy light of God so that we have a perfect love of God and of all men. I myself am still a work in progress, I do not have any pretentions of having attained that state yet, I hope to follow the course set by the prophets and apostles in the revelations of Jesus Christ so that I may have this great honor. Do you think President Hinckly would have boasted that we could become Gods to a mass audience of unbelievers and others who may be believers but were unprepared for such knowledge? Why does God require us to wait a year before getting our endowment in the Temple? Is it an issue of worthiness? Or perhaps it is because the light is so bright that it could blind the person as Paul was physically, they may be spiritually blinded if they receive too much too soon. Why doesn't God snatch the veil from our minds and our eyes so that we may see clearly rather than through a glass darkly? I fear it may be because if we are not prepared we would perish under such blinding knowledge. Also another factor, where much is given much is required, if we are not able to make the sacrifices necessary for certain blessings they could prove a cursing unto us. I think each of us receives the amount of light and truth that we are able to bear and we must be patient with ourselves (and others) so that we may live up to the full measure of our creation and receive these things when the time is right for us. The problem I see in the Church is that the membership in general are either unable to understand or are distracted to the point that they think these "deep dark doctrines" are not necessary for them to know. I sit in many a priesthood meeting and am shocked at the ignorance of some of the members who do not even understand the more simple doctrines (faith, repentance, baptism) if seems that their minds are darkened to the point that if one of these other doctrines were brought up it would be like trying to teach kindergardeners Calculus. So no wonder the Prophet and Apostles try to keep it simple... unless we get these basics and are actively practicing them we can never hope to understand the mysteries of God as is stated here:

 

"And now behold, my brethren, what natural man is there that knoweth these things? I say unto you, there is none that knoweth these things, save it be the penitent. Yea, he that repenteth and exerciseth faith, and bringeth forth good works, and prayeth continually without ceasing—unto such it is given to know the mysteries of God; yea, unto such it shall be given to reveal things which never have been revealed; yea, and it shall be given unto such to bring thousands of souls to repentance, even as it has been given unto us to bring these our brethren to repentance." (Book of Mormon | Alma 26:21-22)

The following may give a clue why the Prophets sometimes seem to only stick to basics:

 "And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him. And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full. And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell." (Book of Mormon | Alma 12:9-11)

 

[DarkScythe]

Mormons seek power that flows to them without compulsion; megalomaniacs lack those scruples.

 

 

So you just confessed that you are really a Sith Lord. So when can we plan to take over this galaxy? then maybe this universe.

[thesometimesaint]

Speak for yourself, I am nothing like a Protestant or a Catholic doctrinally (although morally and in decency we may be very simular) I do not tolerate anyone who tries to "water down" the principles of the restoration and if they do so in my presence I will call them on it. I am a Mormon, a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the doctrine I believe is not taught anywhere else in the world. I do not believe the lessons are "sanitized" just as I do not believe the Church has ever "hidden" anything. It may not parrot what the Anti-Mormons charactature us and say we believe. Some core doctrines for which I believe that there can be no compromise is the teaching that God is a glorified and exalted man and sits enthroned in the heavens. That Jesus Christ is God the Son, meaning the literal son of the Man of Holiness and is our elder brother, meaning that we are also spirit sons and daughters of God created in His image and likeness. That Christ is our savior and also the one who showed us the path we must follow to sit with Him in his throne, even as He overcame and sat down with His Father in His throne. Also that the Holy Ghost is a spirit person, who is the means whereby the Father and Son can sanctify us and make us holy as we obey the Gospel and yes if we pass the test, we can be exalted and become a God... that is big G! The same as the Father, not a "lesser god" or a student god but a jointheir with Christ so that we can do the things He (the Father and the Son) does. We are a race of Gods, meaning we are of the same species. I think that is exactly what the Prophet Joseph tried to teach us and the reason he was killed, the same reason Christ was killed... because of teaching that "he being a man makes himself a god"! This is appauling to our traditional christian friends. But to me it is a glorious doctrine a doctrine that is ennobling and is truly "Good News"! We are not merely grovelling animals but we are the sons of God and if we allow Him Christ will exalt us on high. The world thinks it blaphemous... not me I have thought from my youth that it was the only doctrine that makes any sense of christianity. Without it they only have a dead form of godliness. 

The principle of current revelation of living prophets and apostles and also in the revelation to individual stands to set us apart from traditional christians as well. I love the idea that we have someone like Moses, or Peter, or Paul, or John who are legal administrators instead of scribes and others who claim to teach the word of God from the dead letter of a closed book.

There is quite a difference and no amount of PR or apologetic juggling can change the fact that we proclaim a restoration of the true Church, not just one among many of churches who are all "true" as long as the teach Christ. We believe in the fullness of the Gospel not a pale imitation. Sorry to be so blunt but I am tired of people claiming that the Church is "changing" it's doctrine. (Some may think that but they are wrong). The necessity of the priesthood authority of God is one less "contraversial" doctrine but is a distinctive one that only the Catholics seem to echo. The protestants come up with the phony idea of the "priesthood of all believers" we do not teach such an idea.

I could continue but this is enough of a rant. Suffice it to say that I am a firm believer in the KFD and the Snow couplet, and also the Sermon in the Grove as well.

 

Agreed.

[thesometimesaint]

I take it you believe if you become "a" God, you'll need a planet. Or is that incorrect? I like how you don't shy from core beliefs, if indeed you are correct.

 

We've got a planet already. This planet we currently reside on will become the Celestial Kingdom, the abode of Gods.

[Tacenda]

We've got a planet already. This planet we currently reside on will become the Celestial Kingdom, the abode of Gods.

Well I hope your not disappointed if you have to inhabit your own world one day.

[thesometimesaint]

Well I hope your not disappointed if you have to inhabit your own world one day.

 

Does God have to live only in one place? I've always thought of the Celestial Kingdom as like a foyer. One that opens up onto everything.

[Tacenda]

Does God have to live only in one place? I've always thought of the Celestial Kingdom as like a foyer. One that opens up onto everything.

Love that idear!

[Kenngo1969]

I should start a club.

I thought you Megalomaniacal Mormons were in classes (clubs) by yourselves!   (Not me; I'm humble ... (just ask me; I'll tell you! )  Though it's hard to be humble ... when you're so great! )