Its Goin' Down

[Damien the Leper]

There is not a single religion on this earth that can determine what is genuine happiness and joy in my relationship. For a religion to assert such a thing is arrogant, unauthoritative, and bigoted. It's very simple. Religions on this matter have opinions and not authoritative dogma or doctrine no matter how hard they attempt to assert or cite their own authority.

[Damien the Leper]

Well, you could mistaken, just as we all are capable of being mistaken, being misled by our biology speaking. Excitement is a very distracting, disarming, distorting state of being. I don't like or welcome being in a state of "beyond even my own comprehension". "Incomprehensible" needs to be followed up by comprehension, clarity, soberness, steadfastness, endurance, and then total commitment with eyes wide open, etc. The first flush of romantic love is just that and nothing more. Real life sets in quickly, stresses come, romantic feelings fade to at best a "come and go" level. Something beyond physical love is at the core of any lasting relationship, especially "marriage". So "gay" or "straight" really is no distinction in any of this, it is human to human biology. And then you can ignore or respect religious sentiments, or make up your own.

I ascribe to the best evidence explanation, "gay" is well under one percent of the male adult population. "Bi" is several times more common, which implies a choice in the matter: if any male has ever felt sexual attraction toward even ONE female, he is not "gay" at all, he has a choice. And females are several times more "bi" than males are, they have even more choice in whether to respond to a lesbian offer or refuse and hold out for the man to come into their life. My daughter is like that, but currently chooses to go lesbian. I cannot accept her choice as equal to disciplining herself, being patient, and holding out for the man to come into her life.

Edit to add: the "explanation" I distracted myself from elucidating is: the evidence indicates that GLBT mentality is largely choice, overlaid by cultural confusion. Those very few who are biologically incapable of ever feeling any sexual attraction toward the opposite gender are unfortunates whose biology is messed up, i.e. part of this imperfect world, and will not be that way in the afterlife. There will be no "gays" or lesbians "married" for eternity or anything like it, not in "Mormon heaven" anyway. I won't put it past "God" to allow other kinds of "heaven" for all kinds of people, but "Mormon heaven" cannot include them, they'll have their own place, if they get a place at all together, and whatever "joy" it may bring....

"Mormon heaven" is of no concern to me as I do not believe it. Furthermore, some may assert that because many don't believe in "Mormon heaven" doesn't make it any less real or authoritative are merely asserting an opinion.

[Storm Rider]

There is not a single religion on this earth that can determine what is genuine happiness and joy in my relationship. For a religion to assert such a thing is arrogant, unauthoritative, and bigoted. It's very simple. Religions on this matter have opinions and not authoritative dogma or doctrine no matter how hard they attempt to assert or cite their own authority.

Val, it would be nice to think God changes with the times, passions, and desires of individuals; but that is not the God revealed to us in scripture. I wish you happiness and I fear that knowledge and consequences of your choices will not lead to a eternal life. Gay mythology has banged on the drum of God's love so loudly that too many have forgotten the meanings of both righteousness and holiness. Continue to walk in his Light and retain a penitent spirit as we all must or should.

[Tacenda]

Val, it would be nice to think God changes with the times, passions, and desires of individuals; but that is not the God revealed to us in scripture. I wish you happiness and I fear that knowledge and consequences of your choices will not lead to a eternal life. Gay mythology has banged on the drum of God's love so loudly that too many have forgotten the meanings of both righteousness and holiness. Continue to walk in his Light and retain a penitent spirit as we all must or should.

I don't want to derail or change the subject, but need to ask, is the 1st or 2nd kingdoms not eternal?

[Darren10]

Valentinus;

Your partner "brings you joy". To that I have said and will repeat, "the best of luck". If you're happy with him than I desire you retain that happiness. My point is that you happiness will not be everlasting. You attempt to distant yourself from religion as it pertains to your personal happiness. Yet you believe in Jesus christ as the Son of God and somewhat recently made a post defending the reality of the Holy Trinity. Yet when it comes to a homosexual relationship, you want to sever what Jesus Christ / the One True God as to say about homosexual relationships? I'm glad to hear you and your boyfriend place Christ at the center of your relationship. I encourage you to continue to do s as it *will* bring you great personal happiness. Also be open to the Spirit and follow its promptings.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Darren10

[The Nehor]

This is sick and ungodly. I mean.....a Canadian?

As to gay marriage I can only say, "God made Adam and Eve, not Abel and Eve." No wait, that's the incest one. Never mind.

[Tacenda]

This is sick and ungodly. I mean.....a Canadian?

As to gay marriage I can only say, "God made Adam and Eve, not Abel and Eve." No wait, that's the incest one. Never mind.

God made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam + Eve + Ethel..... so is polygamy sick? OOPS, I think you were trying to be your funny self here. Edited August 9, 2013 by Tacenda

[The Nehor]

God made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam + Eve + Ethel..... so is polygamy sick?

Not in general but if one of the women is named Ethel.....probably.

[Damien the Leper]

Val, it would be nice to think God changes with the times, passions, and desires of individuals; but that is not the God revealed to us in scripture. I wish you happiness and I fear that knowledge and consequences of your choices will not lead to a eternal life. Gay mythology has banged on the drum of God's love so loudly that too many have forgotten the meanings of both righteousness and holiness. Continue to walk in his Light and retain a penitent spirit as we all must or should.

The 8 verses in scripture used to "condemn" homosexuality are such beaten dead horses. They don't advance the conservative position in the slightest. It is disingenuous, illogical, and presumptuous to assert that scripture is about gender and sex. My salvation is not on the line.

[Damien the Leper]

Valentinus;

Your partner "brings you joy". To that I have said and will repeat, "the best of luck". If you're happy with him than I desire you retain that happiness. My point is that you happiness will not be everlasting. You attempt to distant yourself from religion as it pertains to your personal happiness. Yet you believe in Jesus christ as the Son of God and somewhat recently made a post defending the reality of the Holy Trinity. Yet when it comes to a homosexual relationship, you want to sever what Jesus Christ / the One True God as to say about homosexual relationships? I'm glad to hear you and your boyfriend place Christ at the center of your relationship. I encourage you to continue to do s as it *will* bring you great personal happiness. Also be open to the Spirit and follow its promptings.

I really don't need you or anyone else to determine the extent of the happiness of my relationship. Your relationship may bring you happiness and I wish you the best of luck on that as well. My relationship brings me indescribable joy and draws me deeper into my love and devotion to Jesus Christ. Unlike you, I read scripture within their historical contexts, audience, purpose of writing to better understand. I don't take scripture for how it reads on the surface. I take it for what it says. As a Disciple's of Christ minister said, its okay to have a fifth grade understanding of scripture as long as you're in the fifth grade.

[Damien the Leper]

Dupe

Edited August 9, 2013 by Valentinus

[Damien the Leper]

God made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam + Eve + Ethel..... so is polygamy sick? OOPS, I think you were trying to be your funny self here.

Abraham's, David's and Solomon's marital sins are not a validation of polygamy. But let's not derail further. Actually, this thread has derailed enough. It was never meant to be a topic on sexual ethics to feed into our religiously motivated moral egos.

[Darren10]

I really don't need you or anyone else to determine the extent of the happiness of my relationship. Your relationship may bring you happiness and I wish you the best of luck on that as well. My relationship brings me indescribable joy and draws me deeper into my love and devotion to Jesus Christ. Unlike you, I read scripture within their historical contexts, audience, purpose of writing to better understand. I don't take scripture for how it reads on the surface. I take it for what it says. As a Disciple's of Christ minister said, its okay to have a fifth grade understanding of scripture as long as you're in the fifth grade.

Hey, I'm 42 and assure you that I have at least a 6th grade understanding of scripture.

I do not think that I attempted to conclude how much joy and happiness your gay partner brings you. Nor have I even said that you are not progressing in Christ. To the contrary, I have openly encouraged you to continue to develope that devotion to the Lord. But eternally-speaking there is a limitation to your joy. Paul said that man is nothing *without* the woman and the woman is nothing *without* the man in Christ the Lord. St. Paul did not say "better then", "equal to", "inferior to", or anything of the sort. He said "without". Man needs a woman and woman needs a man in order to fully progress in Christ. That's my school boy aged understanding of scripture (completely ignoring the historical context and audience, of course).

[Darren10]

Abraham's, David's and Solomon's marital sins are not a validation of polygamy. But let's not derail further. Actually, this thread has derailed enough. It was never meant to be a topic on sexual ethics to feed into our religiously motivated moral egos.

"Sins"? It's one thing to accuse another of ignoring historical context and audience but when one ignores scripture entirely that's another.

7 ¶And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the Lord, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

2 Samuel 2.

How is receiving women from God "sin"? David's marital sin was taking Batsheba when she belonged to Uriah (having Uriah killed only served to severely worsen that sin). It was only when David took that which God did not give him that sin resulted and always will result in sin. that was Solomon's downfall as well, following david's example obviously. Moses had cocubines and was called by the Lord His servant. Abraham as well.

I really hope it's not time to do a Bible bash here. At times I get tired from it.

[Darren10]

Valentinus;

As for religious moral egos, wasn't this thread created to feed your own ego?

Edited August 9, 2013 by Darren10

[Calm]

Valentinus;

As for religious moral egos, wasn't this thread created to feed your own ego?

Social hall guys, perhaps stopping now would be a good idea....if only as a favour to me please.

[Damien the Leper]

"Sins"? It's one thing to accuse another of ignoring historical context and audience but when one ignores scripture entirely that's another.

2 Samuel 2.

How is receiving women from God "sin"? David's marital sin was taking Batsheba when she belonged to Uriah (having Uriah killed only served to severely worsen that sin). It was only when David took that which God did not give him that sin resulted and always will result in sin. that was Solomon's downfall as well, following david's example obviously. Moses had cocubines and was called by the Lord His servant. Abraham as well.

I really hope it's not time to do a Bible bash here. At times I get tired from it.

Lets not derail this thread further by discussing extra marital affairs of OT figures.

[Damien the Leper]

Valentinus;

As for religious moral egos, wasn't this thread created to feed your own ego?

Was announcing your engagement to your wife meant to feed your ego? My announcement was not. I wanted to share something with people whom I hold near and dear despite any moral disagreements we may have. It is disheartening that this was not able to happen.The thread wasn't even started to discuss sexual ethics but we have those who chose to take the focus of mine and my fiancee's joyous occasion to discuss sexual ethics. That is what is most unfortunate.

[Damien the Leper]

Social hall guys, perhaps stopping now would be a good idea....if only as a favour to me please.

Fair enough. I sent a request to the mods to shut the thread down because the topic was disrespected anddesecrated.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Valentinus