The Velvet Rage: What It Means To Be A Man

[Damien the Leper]

Sadly, our culture raises men to be strong and silent. Straight or gay, the pressure is on from the time we are very young to become our culture's John Wayne-style of man:

- The more pain I can take, the more of a man I am.

- Showing feelings is for women.

- The more I can drink, the manlier I am.

- Intimacy is sex; sex is intimacy.

- Only women depend on others.

- A man takes care of himself without help from others.

- No one can hurt you if you are strong.

- I am what I earn.

- It is best to keep your problems to yourself.

- Winning is all that matters.

Where did this stuff come from? It's everywhere in our society, from the movie heroes we love to the politicians we vote for. Our culture demands that men fit into a tightly defined role.

As gay men, we like to think that we've exempted ourselves from all of this macho stereotyping. After all, we've committed the great masculine transgression of falling in love with another man.

Truth is, those masculine stereotypes are as much a part of the fabric of our lives as they are for straight men. We may have rejected some or even most of it on the surface, but we first learned our behavior patterns--particularly those relating to emotions--like all men, from our fathers.

Our fathers exerted enormous influence over our lives. For most of our young years, we wanted to be just like our fathers. Once we got into the teenage years, much of that reversed, and we resented much of what our fathers did and said. Resentment and admiration are always two sides of the same coin.

Your first and most powerful model for how to be a man was your father. Like it or not, you absorbed many of his ways of dealing with the world. There never has been and never will be a man who will have such a strong influence over your life as your father does.

As a young gay man, the relationship with your father became a template from which your relationships with all other men would come. What you craved from him was love, affection, and tenderness. As we have seen, what most of us received from our fathers was far less.

We need our fathers to give us a loving model of a male relationship. Instead, what we got was the best that they could give under the circumstances, which was far less than what we needed as gay boys.

Our mothers were a different story. They were more often nurturing and loving (this, too, is an enforced cultural norm for women). As we grew older, they too sensed our differences and tried to make up for our pain by giving us extra attention and care. They saw their husbands perplexed by the son who wasn't like all the other boys, and often they tried to compensate for his further emotional detachment.

For many of us, this meant that we grew up receiving most of or all the affection and tenderness we needed from our mothers, and very little from our fathers. This kind of relationship with a woman is wonderful, but it left a huge hole in our experience with men. Where were we going to learn how to relate to a man in a tender, loving, and honest way? Where was our role model for maintaining a lasting relationship between men (without the intervention of a woman)?

As a result, gay men were unable children and adolescents to have a close parental relationship with the gender they would grow to find erotic. To understand the enormous disadvantage this caused you, think about how it worked for young straight men. They were able to have a close relationship with a nurturing individual of the gender to which they were attracted. While it didn't always make them better at relationships, they had a template for what a close, loving relationship would be with their wives.

In addition, women are taught in our culture to be the caretakers of relationships. They are expected to be the ones to nurture their husband and compensate for his lack of emotional disclosure.. In most cases, it is the woman in a straight relationship that does the lion's share of creating and maintaining a warm sense of love and home.

What this all suggests is that we were at a severe disadvantage for successful relationships. Not only were we deprived of a model of a tender, honest, and loving relationship between men, we also didn't have the "emotional safety net" that a woman creates in a straight relationship. Nor were we give the social assignment and skills for nurturing and maintaining intimate relationships as women are.

And the news only gets worse. When we finally met another man and fell in love, he was just as likely struggling in stage one or two as we were. All the behaviors we used in stage one, such as splitting, had traumatic effects on our relationships. We were prone to such relationship-damaging behaviors as betrayal and emotional dishonesty.

In addition to being two wounded and struggling men, we didn't have the support that all new relationships need and that straight relationships almost always receive. There were no clergy to advise us on the importance of staying together. For many of us, our parents weren't of much help, either. Family gatherings with our new partner were generally more a struggle than a celebration of our union. Even our closes friends weren't always supportive of the new relationship, jealous of the time and attention we diverted from them toward our new love.

The cards were stacked for failure. All these factors converged upon us, making our first romantic endeavor highly unlikely to survive the test of time. We weren't prepared to have a relationship with another man, especially not another man who was similarly wounded. We struggled and hoped for the best, but for most of us, those first relationships failed after the blush of new love had faded away.

Excerpt taken from The Velvet Rage: Overcoming the Pain of Growing Up Gay in a Straight Man's World; Stage 3: Cultivating Authenticity; Chapter 12: Healing Relationship Trauma, pp. 122-26. Dr. Alan Downs.

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I chose this excerpt not to demonstrate a supposed deficiency in defining genderal roles but to demonstrate how gender roles within family can be harmful to homosexual children. I'm of the opinion that there needs to be some kind of adaptation on the part of the parents to better relate and provide for the emotional needs, and often the turmoil, of their children. Personally, my father was very absent both physically and emotionally. Physically because he was in the military while growing up and emotionally because he didn't know how to respond or relate to a child who was different than other young boys. Keep in mind that this isn't a way to blame parents for emotional trauma their children experience. However, the reality of the physical and emotional interaction, or lack thereof, is evident to a traumatic strain.

[cinepro]

Here's a velvet man for you:

[Damien the Leper]

What does this have to do with the OP, cinepro?

[Mark Beesley]

Excerpt taken from The Velvet Rage: Overcoming the Pain of Growing Up Gay in a Straight Man's World; Stage 3: Cultivating Authenticity; Chapter 12: Healing Relationship Trauma, pp. 122-26. Dr. Alan Downs.

_____________________________________________________________________________

I chose this excerpt not to demonstrate a supposed deficiency in defining genderal roles but to demonstrate how gender roles within family can be harmful to homosexual children. I'm of the opinion that there needs to be some kind of adaptation on the part of the parents to better relate and provide for the emotional needs, and often the turmoil, of their children. Personally, my father was very absent both physically and emotionally. Physically because he was in the military while growing up and emotionally because he didn't know how to respond or relate to a child who was different than other young boys. Keep in mind that this isn't a way to blame parents for emotional trauma their children experience. However, the reality of the physical and emotional interaction, or lack thereof, is evident to a traumatic strain.

1. This has nothing to do with Mormonism.

2. To the extent it has anything to do with Mormonism, it should not be the role of the LDS father to set a good example to his children of how to be in a loving homosexual relationship. He should teach his child that whatever attractions he/she feels, they are appropriately expressed only in a heterosexual relationship and marriage, and the only acceptable alternative is celibacy.

[The Nehor]

Everyone has weird baggage in their early relationships. Gay men (and women) tend to start later. Think it is a stretch to blame on parents.

[Damien the Leper]

Everyone has weird baggage in their early relationships. Gay men (and women) tend to start later. Think it is a stretch to blame on parents.

I agree but many of the dysfunctional behaviors of men and women, gay or straight, some times have to do with their relationships with their parents. Psychologists, at least the many I've read from and listened to, tend to agree on the subject.

[The Nehor]

I agree but many of the dysfunctional behaviors of men and women, gay or straight, some times have to do with their relationships with their parents. Psychologists, at least the many I've read from and listened to, tend to agree on the subject.

But that just comes down to being good parents period. If male machismo is the problem girls with dads like that should have similar dating woes.

[Damien the Leper]

But that just comes down to being good parents period. If male machismo is the problem girls with dads like that should have similar dating woes.

I don't think so. There are great differences between a father/son relationship and a father/daughter relationship just the same as the differences between a mother/son relationship and a mother/daughter relationship.

[USU78]

Everyone has weird baggage in their early relationships. Gay men (and women) tend to start later. Think it is a stretch to blame on parents.

Hear! Hear!

This is so very convenient, isn't it, blaming Mom and Dad for one's own choices? So very useful not to be responsible for anything, least of all one's emotional and behavioral deficiencies.

[Damien the Leper]

Hear! Hear!

This is so very convenient, isn't it, blaming Mom and Dad for one's own choices? So very useful not to be responsible for anything, least of all one's emotional and behavioral deficiencies.

If you honestly think that what you say is what this thread is about then you have 1000% missed the mark on what Dr. Downs is trying to say. In the book, Dr. Downs says to own your feelings and not project them. He called a skill "Own your side of the street". Furthermore, I don't know of a single psychologist or psychotherapist whom I have read who would be willing to suggest to the most minute degree that parents play no part in our developing emotions. Such an assertion is ridiculous.

[USU78]

If you honestly think that what you say is what this thread is about then you have 1000% missed the mark on what Dr. Downs is trying to say. In the book, Dr. Downs says to own your feelings and not project them. He called a skill "Own your side of the street". Furthermore, I don't know of a single psychologist or psychotherapist whom I have read who would be willing to suggest to the most minute degree that parents play no part in our developing emotions. Such an assertion is ridiculous.

And is that what I said?

Parents play a part, but they bear no more responsibility for narcissism in their offspring, and it is highly unfair to make them the bugbear of adult homosexuals' emotional lacks.

Jane Austen put words to this effect in a character's mouth: "It is tempting to put the power over our happiness into the hands of one person, but we must not. We are ourselves responsible for our own happiness." This includes parents, and I find it simpleminded to relieve the feckless of responsibility for their own emotional well-being.

[Damien the Leper]

And is that what I said?

Parents play a part, but they bear no more responsibility for narcissism in their offspring, and it is highly unfair to make them the bugbear of adult homosexuals' emotional lacks.

Jane Austen put words to this effect in a character's mouth: "It is tempting to put the power over our happiness into the hands of one person, but we must not. We are ourselves responsible for our own happiness." This includes parents, and I find it simpleminded to relieve the feckless of responsibility for their own emotional well-being.

Apologies. I understand better what you're saying. The primary focus of the book is overcoming shame. That shame is felt when we discover that we are not how we were or are expected to be. The book beckons each of us gay men to look at our own internal feelings of shame that we hammer into ourselves but also the words spoken by family, peers, religious institutions that add to the shame. When we look at where our feelings of shame come from, it is better that we dismiss the sources that cause us to feel shame such as society or family. We are not here to live for the approval of anyone else but ourselves, our peace of mind and contentment.

[USU78]

Apologies. I understand better what you're saying. The primary focus of the book is overcoming shame. That shame is felt when we discover that we are not how we were or are expected to be. The book beckons each of us gay men to look at our own internal feelings of shame that we hammer into ourselves but also the words spoken by family, peers, religious institutions that add to the shame. When we look at where our feelings of shame come from, it is better that we dismiss the sources that cause us to feel shame such as society or family. We are not here to live for the approval of anyone else but ourselves, our peace of mind and contentment.

I, naturally, disagree on the issue of the non-utility of shame in shaping our behavior and our emotional well-being. Avoiding shame usually is best accomplished by avoiding behaviors to be ashamed of. No offense, but statistically, your average homosexual male in the West has plenty to be ashamed of. And he doesn't have to look to Mom, Dad, Church, or School for reasons to be ashamed.

[LoudmouthMormon]

...there needs to be some kind of adaptation on the part of the parents to better relate and provide for the emotional needs, and often the turmoil, of their children.

Tell you what - drop the word "better" from your sentence, and I'm in complete and total agreement with you. In fact, your sentence without the word "better", sort of forms a cornerstone of my beliefs about my role as parent. I'm all about relating to my kids and providing for their emotional needs, and helping them through their turmoils.

I'd asume most people share a common understanding of what "trauma" means. Something that causes serious injury with medium- to long-term impacts?

My kids are 12 and 9. I try not to traumatize them, and have succeeded 98.725% of the time. That last 1.275%, well, if I could go back, I'd do things differently. I'm a parent - by definition, I'm not perfect.

(I don't think this thread has anything specifically to do with orientation or mormons either.)

[CV75]

I'm of the opinion that there needs to be some kind of adaptation on the part of the parents to better relate and provide for the emotional needs, and often the turmoil, of their children.

I think that mothers and fathers at all but the lowest levels of parental functioning would at least intellectually acknowledge (even if it takes some discussion), that they would like to better relate and provide for the emotional needs of their children. I think the Gospel and Church involvement certainly helps people attain and fulfil this desire as parents.

[Damien the Leper]

I, naturally, disagree on the issue of the non-utility of shame in shaping our behavior and our emotional well-being. Avoiding shame usually is best accomplished by avoiding behaviors to be ashamed of. No offense, but statistically, your average homosexual male in the West has plenty to be ashamed of. And he doesn't have to look to Mom, Dad, Church, or School for reasons to be ashamed.

I agree to an extent. We all make choices that cause us to feel shame. But to wallow in shame or to recover from it only perpetuates poor choices and actions. It is best not to be consumed by shame but to examine behaviors that cause shame and rise above them. For gay men, being gay is nothing to feel shame about. Likewise, neither is wanting to have a committed monogamous relationship with a man who shares those values. Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Valentinus

[Damien the Leper]

I think that mothers and fathers at all but the lowest levels of parental functioning would at least intellectually acknowledge (even if it takes some discussion), that they would like to better relate and provide for the emotional needs of their children. I think the Gospel and Church involvement certainly helps people attain and fulfil this desire as parents.

This is fine so long as the child or children are allowed to be absolutely authentic about themselves without fear of rejection or oppression.

[Damien the Leper]

Tell you what - drop the word "better" from your sentence, and I'm in complete and total agreement with you. In fact, your sentence without the word "better", sort of forms a cornerstone of my beliefs about my role as parent. I'm all about relating to my kids and providing for their emotional needs, and helping them through their turmoils.

I'd asume most people share a common understanding of what "trauma" means. Something that causes serious injury with medium- to long-term impacts?

My kids are 12 and 9. I try not to traumatize them, and have succeeded 98.725% of the time. That last 1.275%, well, if I could go back, I'd do things differently. I'm a parent - by definition, I'm not perfect.

(I don't think this thread has anything specifically to do with orientation or mormons either.)

This thread has everything to do with having inner peace and establishing and maintaining complete self authenticity.