"Failing The Lord" Can You Do That?

[Duncan]

A phrase that I heard sometimes in my mission and very infrequently since is "failing the Lord" I get the idea meaning that if we don't do X then God can't do Y with someone, you or someone else. if I didn't baptize someone that i was suposed to for whatever reason then that's their chance and I screwed it up for God- Can we really "Fail the Lord"?

[urroner]

Does the Church teach that if we fail to do what is right, than it is by our actions that another person is damned? So people think so and some of them even think that we are responsible for their sins and they use this scripture as evidence

D&C 68:25

And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.

That scripture doesn't say "their sinS be upon the heads of the parents," it says "the sin be upon the heads of the parents." I am responsible for my own sins and not for somebody else's sins.

I have heard that several times that, even on my mission, that there could be somebody out there that only I can convert and that if I didn't do so, then that person would never accept the gospel and be eternally lost.

Let's look at the Second AoF:

We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

I don't know what it means by "to fail the Lord." I think that we fail ourselves, but just because I, as an individual fail, doesn't mean that I'm a failure. I don't even look at life anymore as a test, that we need to prove ourselves to the Lord or that we "pass" or "fail" the test. I look at it as a learning experience and that there will be plenty of good and plenty of bad experiences.

[Robert F. Smith]

A phrase that I heard sometimes in my mission and very infrequently since is "failing the Lord" I get the idea meaning that if we don't do X then God can't do Y with someone, you or someone else. if I didn't baptize someone that i was suposed to for whatever reason then that's their chance and I screwed it up for God- Can we really "Fail the Lord"?

Yes and No.

Both Joseph Smith and Martin Harris failed the Lord in the loss of the 116 pages of manuscript, but (as the Lord himself stated of that event),

D&C 3:1-3

1 The works, and the designs, and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated,

neither can they come to naught.

2 For God doth not walk in crooked paths,

neither doth he turn to the right hand nor to the left,

neither doth he vary from that which he hath said,

therefore his paths are straight,

and his course is one eternal round.

3 Remember, remember that it is not the work of God that is frustrated,

but the work of men;

[CV75]

A phrase that I heard sometimes in my mission and very infrequently since is "failing the Lord" I get the idea meaning that if we don't do X then God can't do Y with someone, you or someone else. if I didn't baptize someone that i was suposed to for whatever reason then that's their chance and I screwed it up for God- Can we really "Fail the Lord"?

According to Hebrews 12: 12-16, I think we can fail Him, but I think this is only temporary since we all know that He has overcome all things.

“Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.”

It seems that to fail the Lord is to deny or interfere with His grace upon ourselves or others, by not hearkening to Him (see also verses 22-25) or by not doing our duty so as to lead another astray or to not help them.

But we can always repent, and God will always have other opportuniteis for others if we have interfered with or let down.

Edited July 15, 2013 by CV75

[Calm]

A phrase that I heard sometimes in my mission and very infrequently since is "failing the Lord" I get the idea meaning that if we don't do X then God can't do Y with someone, you or someone else. if I didn't baptize someone that i was suposed to for whatever reason then that's their chance and I screwed it up for God- Can we really "Fail the Lord"?

Ridiculous. While we can create or remove obstacles for others on their journey, I don't see those who are accountable being forced to take any potential detours our actions may have created. And for those who are not accountable, the Lord will do what is necessary to save them. There are sufficient scriptures demonstrating that men can't mess up the purposes and plans of God. Edited July 15, 2013 by calmoriah

[bluebell]

Ridiculous. While we can create or remove obstacles for others on their journey, I don't see those who are accountable being forced to take any potential detours our actions may have created. And for those who are not accountable, the Lord will do what is necessary to save them. There are sufficient scriptures demonstrating that men can't mess up the purposes and plans of God.

I agree.

I think that people can fail God, but it is mostly to our detriment. Our choices can obviously have serious negative effects on others but their salvation is not in our hands.

[Questing Beast]

A phrase that I heard sometimes in my mission and very infrequently since is "failing the Lord" I get the idea meaning that if we don't do X then God can't do Y with someone, you or someone else. if I didn't baptize someone that i was suposed to for whatever reason then that's their chance and I screwed it up for God- Can we really "Fail the Lord"?

No. "Inconceivable", really, in the end. "God", the maker of spacetime and the creation it governs, is not limited to ONE choice or path or even universe, in anything. Everything or anything can be "reset" and done over and over as many times as necessary, desired or mandated, until the whole human family is wholly satisfied with their interwoven, shared experiences of mortality together. And there's your reason for not putting off "being good" (just, moral): it just makes everyone's satisfaction take that much longer. (I don't know how much of that I literally believe, but it certainly seems like a possible hypothesis to describe what is going on and why with all of us and all of this....)

[Calm]

I have heard that several times that, even on my mission, that there could be somebody out there that only I can convert and that if I didn't do so, then that person would never accept the gospel and be eternally lost.

That is ignoring the reality that for a true conversion (not just a social one), it is the Spirit that converts, not the individual. If so, then the Spirit can make use of anyone to lay the groundwork need to help the individual open up to him.

It sounds like a variation on the soulmate concept which has been declared false doctrine. This falls into that category imo as well. And people should be challenged on it, imo, not because it makes excuses not to do missionary work, but because no one should have to carry the burden of thinking they've damned someone or robbed them of exaltation, not even one's children. It just makes no sense whatsoever. Even if it occurs that way in mortality, what is stopping them from meeting up again in the spirit world and making the proper connection then (if one accepts as given that only one person will convert someone which is NOT a given in my book...in fact, I believe it has zero possibility of being true).

[Calm]

Yes and No.

Both Joseph Smith and Martin Harris failed the Lord in the loss of the 116 pages of manuscript, but....

If we could truly permanently fail the Lord, then this would render the Atonement ineffectual....which contradicts scripture and doctrine and common sense.

[Ahab]

A phrase that I heard sometimes in my mission and very infrequently since is "failing the Lord" I get the idea meaning that if we don't do X then God can't do Y with someone, you or someone else. if I didn't baptize someone that i was suposed to for whatever reason then that's their chance and I screwed it up for God- Can we really "Fail the Lord"?

If we don't do X then God can't do Y with someone is a valid thought, in some cases, but let's not act as if God is limited to the actions of specific individuals. He can always find someone else to do what he wants to get done and even exactly when he wants it to happen.

Take your example of you not baptizing someone you perhaps could have baptized had you done what you could have done to get that to happen, supposing your "failure" was your decision to not go to a specific house where someone would have accepted the gospel principles you knew and were ready to teach them, had you simply gone to visit that house. In some sense, you did fail to do what you could have done to help the Lord with his work, but the fact that you didn't do that doesn't mean the Lord can't inspire someone else to go visit that house and those who lived in that house, or to visit those people when they are somewhere else outside of that house. It may not get done one way when it could have been done in that way but there will always be another way for our Lord to get done what he wants to get done, and none of us can stop him. He is totally unstoppable. At most we can only make it so that he has to do something in some way other than one of the ways he could have done what he did.

[BlueDreams]

A phrase that I heard sometimes in my mission and very infrequently since is "failing the Lord" I get the idea meaning that if we don't do X then God can't do Y with someone, you or someone else. if I didn't baptize someone that i was suposed to for whatever reason then that's their chance and I screwed it up for God- Can we really "Fail the Lord"?

No....and if we're earnestly seeking Him, I don't think we can even really fail ourselves in the long run. If you mean walking without mistep, mistake, and sin.....then we fail the Lord daily. If you mean becoming perfected through Christ.... as long as we seek Him, we cannot fail.

With luv,

BD

Edited July 16, 2013 by BlueDreams

[bu11fr0g]

I think it is a way of using guilt to motivate. It is theologically unsound and psychologically damaging.

There are sins of commission, sins of intent, sins of thought and sins of omission but this creates a sin of inadequate striving. It creates a condition of always inadequacy for the perfectionist.

But to the extent that it prevents us from being self-satisfied there may be some use. I feel it is really a poor motivator and I personally reject it.

God is responsible for making Earth a fair trial, not me. And there is no way for this to exist in This World. A lot will have to be cleaned up in the afterlife and at the judgment bar. How God will judge us is probably best based upon personal revelation. I have found that a patient God bears far sweeter fruit in my life than a god who punishes for what we think we could have done if we had tried even harder.

[Questing Beast]

...

God is responsible for making Earth a fair trial, not me. And there is no way for this to exist in This World. A lot will have to be cleaned up in the afterlife and at the judgment bar. How God will judge us is probably best based upon personal revelation. I have found that a patient God bears far sweeter fruit in my life than a god who punishes for what we think we could have done if we had tried even harder.

Sensible. I live my mortal experience "knowing who to blame" for everything beyond my control, for everything that outrages me. "I didn't make the world this way, it's not my fault. You can fix it!" Words to that effect, when I am feeling especially vexed at all the ills I see around me.... Edited July 19, 2013 by Questing Beast