BookofMormonLuvr Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 I know that the TL has a couple apostles that live in Scottsdale but I haven't really gotten into contact with them. The Bickertonite group is at Broadway and Val Vista in Mesa. The building is kinda small looking from the outside but that doesn't mean much. I have met Alice Cooper on several occasions. A few times at Cooper's Town and once at a concert sponsored by a local radio station. He's a great guy.I don't knoiw of any TL Apostles that live in Scottsdale, and a know at least 3 from Phoenix. They mostly live in the neighborhood surrounding their church building as do many of the families of the congregation.I have heard AC is a great guy also. His wife threw a baby (wedding?) shower for my step-dad's neice who works for them in some capacity..
Calm Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 (edited) It brings joy to my soul and I am sure yours to know you are now a Disciple of Jesus Christ and Heir of Eternal Life.I think Val has been a disciple of Christ since as long as I've known him, he just hasn't always been clear on what that meant for him....(most are in the same condition many times in our lives, I believe). I am hoping that needed clarity will come strong and steadfast in the days to come, because you are right with such discipleship comes joy but pain as well, one of the many contradictions of life as we move into a more focused seeking of God.....with the greater insight that comes of goodness in the world we also learned more intimately how we have erred in the past in seeking it and instead have at times brought hardship to ourselves and others in ways we didn't understand before. And while there is great joy found in laying our sacrifices and obediences on the Lord's altar (sacrifices of giving to him that which is in us that keep us from His side because we want nothing to stand in the way of becoming one), there is pain there as well....how could it be a sacrifice if there was none?...because giving up that which clings on to us from the world, that which may have become so much a part of us it may be like undergoing spiritual surgery to remove it...that kind of sacrifice can be very difficult and painful, especially when we are laying it on the altar in a gesture of faith and hope without certain knowledge.I love the metaphor CS Lewis uses in the Voyage of the Dawn Treader where Aslan must peal off the dragon skin that has crept over Eustace to free him from that trap...and it isn't a gentle process.“The water was as clear as anything and I thought if I could get in there and bathe it would ease the pain in my leg. but the lion told me I must undress first. Mind you, I don’t know if he said any words out loud or not.I was just going to say that I couldn’t undress because I hadn’t any clothes on when I suddenly thought that dragons are snaky sort of things and snakes can cast their skins. Oh, of course, thought I, that’s what the lion means. So I started scratching myself and my scales began coming off all over the place. And then I scratched a little deeper and , instead of just scales coming off here and there, my whole skin started peeling off beautifully, like it does after an illness, or as if I was a banana. In a minute or two I just stepped out of it. I could see it lying there beside me, looking rather nasty. It was a most lovely feeling. So I started to go down into the well for my bathe.But just as I was going to put my feet into the water I looked down and saw that they were all hard and rough and wrinkled and scaly just as they had been before. Oh, that’s all right, said I, it only means I had another smaller suit on underneath the first one, and I’ll have to get out of it too. So I scratched and tore again and this underskin peeled off beautifully and out I stepped and left it lying beside the other one and went down to the well for my bathe.Well, exactly the same thing happened again. And I thought to myself, oh dear, how ever many skins have I got to take off? For I was longing to bathe my leg. So I scratched away for the third time and got off a third skin, just like the two others, and stepped out of it. But as soon as I looked at myself in the water I knew it had been no good.Then the lion said – but I don’t know if it spoke – ‘You will have to let me undress you.’ I was afraid of his claws, I can tell you, but I was pretty nearly desperate now. So I just lay flat down on my back to let him do it.The very first tear he made was so deep that I thought it had gone right into my heart. And when he began pulling the skin off, it hurt worse than anything I’ve ever felt. The only thing that made me able to bear it was just the pleasure of feeling the stuff peel off. You know – if you’ve ever picked the scab of a sore place. It hurts like billy-oh but it is such fun to see it coming away.Well, he peeled the beastly stuff right off – just as I thought I’d done it myself the other three times, only they hadn’t hurt – and there it was lying on the grass: only ever so much thicker, and darker, and more knobbly-looking than the others had been. And there was I was smooth and soft as a peeled switch and smaller than I had been. Then he caught hold of me – I didn’t like that much for I was very tender underneath now that I’d no skin on – and threw me into the water. It smarted like anything but only for a moment. After that it became perfectly delicious and as soon as I started swimming and splashing I found that all the pain had gone from my arm. And then I saw why. I’d turned into a boy again.”Don't know why I am so serious today, sorry if I've interrupted the party atmosphere. Edited May 4, 2013 by calmoriah 2
Damien the Leper Posted May 4, 2013 Author Posted May 4, 2013 Thanks Calmoriah...that was awesome. However, I think the noun adjective "disciple" may be misplaced. I believe "uneducated-ignoramus-trying-to-learn-heathen" is more accurate. Just ask around. I'm a bloody idiot! 1
Tacenda Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 (edited) On your endeavour, just don't change too much! Edited May 5, 2013 by Tacenda 1
Damien the Leper Posted May 6, 2013 Author Posted May 6, 2013 No need to worry about that, Tacenda. I will still argue with Wade, ERayR and others. It just may not be the same ole same ole. Now...if I can just figure out who Nemesis and Chaos really are...then I can conquer the board and assimilate Hestia, Skylla, Ares and Minos.
fatherofone Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 It really doesn't matter if he holds the Priesthood or not. Simply being a member of the Church subjects him to possible Church discipline. Though repentance is a longer and harder process if one has made covenants in the Temple it is still possible. Many have returned to full fellowship, some unfortunately have not.Sounds like a win win situation to me. why would repentance be longer and harder if he had been thru the temple?
Gillebre Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) Nemesis is Calmoriah, Chaos is Julian, Scylla is Maidservant, Hestia is Mercyngrace, Ares is MorningStar, and Minos is Deborah.The UMW have taken over...they are one... Edited May 7, 2013 by Gillebre 1
Calm Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Nemesis is Calmoriah, Chaos is Julian, Scylla is Maidservant, Hestia is Mercyngrace, Ares is MorningStar, and Minos is Deborah.The UMW have taken over...they are one...The sad thing is there are those out there that will believe you...
ERayR Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 why would repentance be longer and harder if he had been thru the temple?Because by that time he/she has received the sacred temple ordinances and has made covenants to honor them. 1
ERayR Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 The sad thing is there are those out there that will believe you...I believe, I believe. 1
thesometimesaint Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 why would repentance be longer and harder if he had been thru the temple?Because of the commitments that are made.
Damien the Leper Posted June 2, 2013 Author Posted June 2, 2013 I think I might be starting to see where things might have gone wrong. I'm not certain but its a start. My guess is that it started when I began to doubt myself. I'm thinking this started about a year out of high school. That's all I've got. I know...not really worth a post. 1
Calm Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 Oh no, it's good to document what one is learning no matter how small. And it is huge to be able to focus on a particular time where change occurred. Some people never even get to that very essential primary (as in one of the first) steps.
Damien the Leper Posted June 2, 2013 Author Posted June 2, 2013 I started to write down, from present to past, anything that may have been directly or indirectly spiritually traumatic, points where I was stubbornly obtuse, etc. I'm going to keep trying to remember further back just to be sure. I firmly believe that it wass probably something I did.
Damien the Leper Posted June 2, 2013 Author Posted June 2, 2013 One thing I have realized is that the goal is not to make the LDS church or the gospel true at all costs but to honestly figure out what the truth is. 1
Garden Girl Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 I think I might be starting to see where things might have gone wrong. I'm not certain but its a start. My guess is that it started when I began to doubt myself. I'm thinking this started about a year out of high school. That's all I've got. I know...not really worth a post.You said this was to be a time of discernment... this is one step...GG
tyler90az Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) I started to write down, from present to past, anything that may have been directly or indirectly spiritually traumatic, points where I was stubbornly obtuse, etc. I'm going to keep trying to remember further back just to be sure. I firmly believe that it wass probably something I did.I just read the following yesterday.If you want to be successful, you must respect one rule never lie to yourself.Seems like you are one step ahead of most people. Edited June 2, 2013 by tyler90az
Avatar4321 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 I don't know if this will help at all but I saw it this morning going around on facebook and reading the thread i immediately remembered it.http://sethadamsmith.com/2013/06/02/crisis-of-faith/Good luck with your goals my friend. I have faith that the Lord will lead you where He wants you to be.
Avatar4321 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 That makes sense. I just wasn't really sure how church discipline worked for those who are not endowed or have the Melchezidek priesthood.Discipline depends on the individual and the Spirit.
Avatar4321 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 The next six months are more the discernment process. This is the time to see if and where we went wrong and to see if we have enough of a testimony left to salvage after the damage we have done. We are optimistic. At the end of this period will determine whether we walk away (what I don't want) or get back on the wagon (what I'm not opposed to). Last night we talked for a bit. I decided that in the next life God and I are gonna fight. He decided he would sit back and watch Him kick my butt.No matter what damage we do, the Lord can salvage anything. 2
Avatar4321 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 I think I might be starting to see where things might have gone wrong. I'm not certain but its a start. My guess is that it started when I began to doubt myself. I'm thinking this started about a year out of high school. That's all I've got. I know...not really worth a post.I can certainly understand that. I've doubted myself countless times and that's been where I've struggled as well. I think it's because Im very much aware of my weaknesses and it was hard to believe I could do anything good, even if I believed in God in my head.I've found the counsel in D&C 121 was good for building my confidence: "Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven."It took a while to start consistantly think about virtue, and even now, it's not always easy, but I can tell you that it definitely helps. 1
Avatar4321 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 One thing I have realized is that the goal is not to make the LDS church or the gospel true at all costs but to honestly figure out what the truth is.That wasn't your goal before?
Avatar4321 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 I just read the following yesterday.Seems like you are one step ahead of most people.I think that's one of the hardest things to convince to people. Because I honestly think alot of people dont even realize they are lying to themselves.
Calm Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 I can certainly understand that. I've doubted myself countless times and that's been where I've struggled as well. I think it's because Im very much aware of my weaknesses and it was hard to believe I could do anything good, even if I believed in God in my head.I have found that often those who have low self esteem or focus heavily on their weaknesses find it very difficult to believe they can change. It is almost a negative pride sharing many of the same qualities as arrogance..."I am too bad to be good" rather than a true humility. Don't mean to be insulting if it is coming across that way, just that I think it is important to realize that promoting one's own weaknesses excessively is not a constructive humility and we need to balance our recognition of our weaknesses with the recognition that we can do good as well with God's help.
Avatar4321 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 I have found that often those who have low self esteem or focus heavily on their weaknesses find it very difficult to believe they can change. It is almost a negative pride sharing many of the same qualities as arrogance..."I am too bad to be good" rather than a true humility. Don't mean to be insulting if it is coming across that way, just that I think it is important to realize that promoting one's own weaknesses excessively is not a constructive humility and we need to balance our recognition of our weaknesses with the recognition that we can do good as well with God's help.You aren't insulting. I have been a very proud man. And while i wasnt thinking of pride when i was more negative about myself, in hindsight it's clear that I was proud. I wasnt trying to be humble or anything i just didnt have any self esteem.
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