Bsa Proposed Policy Statement On Sexual Orientation And Membership

[Stone holm]

I don't know that one can read a control issue into this. Does BSA not allow comparable flexibility to other sponsors?

I know of no other sponsors who have custom made alternative programs or where program's have been invented specifically for them.

[Stone holm]

The sense I get is that the Church is eager to be as conciliatory as it reasonably can, up to the point where the national policies begin to infringe on the Church's non-negotiable standards. That the Church will avoid the nuclear option (cutting off all ties with BSA) so long as it is not compelled to tolerate a policy whereby practicing homosexual men are installed in leadership positions.

Perhaps such a confrontation is inevitable, but for now it has been avoided, so for now, the Church can continue an association that has worked reasonably well for 100 years.

That is why I am of the opinion that the Church had signalled no objection to the original compromise since it would have left the Church to make its own policy as to its own leaders.

[Scott Lloyd]

I know of no other sponsors who have custom made alternative programs or where program's have been invented specifically for them.

That doesn't mean such flexibility would be unavailable to them if they desired it. Are you aware of any sponsors who wanted to customize the programs for their own use but were forbidden to do so by BSA?

[Scott Lloyd]

That is why I am of the opinion that the Church had signalled no objection to the original compromise since it would have left the Church to make its own policy as to its own leaders.

To take the Church's silence on the matter as signaling no objection is presumptuous. It could just as easily be inferred that the Church "signaled" its discomfort with the earlier proposal by not hindering the Great Salt Lake Council, with its overwhelmingly LDS membership, from putting the brakes on what appeared to be foregone.

[Stone holm]

To take the Church's silence on the matter as signaling no objection is presumptuous. It could just as easily be inferred that the Church "signaled" its discomfort with the earlier proposal by not hindering the Great Salt Lake Council, with its overwhelmingly LDS membership, from putting the brakes on what appeared to be foregone.

Possibly you are correct, I was giving the Church the benefit of the doubt as not trying to use BSA to impose our beliefs on non-LDS Units. But you could be correct that the Church still wanted to keep the controversy alive and well in the BSA. Somehow, I doubt that is the case since we have not used the Scouting program as a cultural battlefield in Canada.

[Scott Lloyd]

Possibly you are correct, I was giving the Church the benefit of the doubt as not trying to use BSA to impose our beliefs on non-LDS Units. But you could be correct that the Church still wanted to keep the controversy alive and well in the BSA. Somehow, I doubt that is the case since we have not used the Scouting program as a cultural battlefield in Canada.

It is fallacious to equate standing fast by moral standards with a desire to keep controversy alive. Sometimes, we don't want controversy, but we accept it as a cost for upholding the right.

Given your reasoning the Church ought to back off from championing any form of morality, since any such advocacy could be viewed as controversial.

[Stone holm]

It is fallacious to equate standing fast by and upholding moral standards with a desire to keep controversy alive.

Given your reasoning the Church ought to back off from championing any form of morality, since any such advocacy could be viewed as controversial.

The original compromise would have let the Church set its own policy as to leaders and scouts within its units, this policy actually restricts Chartering Organizations from setting their own policy for Scouts who come out but remain chaste and as to setting policy as to who the Organization can choose as leaders. It is now not uncommon for churches to perform SSMs and to have SSM couples with children. What we have created is a situation where those parents cannot serve as leaders in that church's unit. Yep that is keeping the controversy alive.

[rongo]

Did the formal, whole body "May vote" (it was moved to May after January because of the Great Salt Lake Council's reaction) ever actually take place yet?

[rockpond]

Did the formal, whole body "May vote" (it was moved to May after January because of the Great Salt Lake Council's reaction) ever actually take place yet?

The vote is supposed to happen at the meeting next week. I believe by the 23rd.

[Stone holm]

Did the formal, whole body "May vote" (it was moved to May after January because of the Great Salt Lake Council's reaction) ever actually take place yet?

The Church has already signalled its satisfaction and did it this time before the Great Salt Lake Council could meet, so it would be up to the Catholics and Evangelicals to lead any opposition, the Evangelicals don't have that much clout so it would be up to the Catholics and I doubt they could change the vote by themselves.

[Daniel2]

I found two items of note on the gays-in-scouting issue, today.

The first I found significant namely because the statement issued by a “Coalition of Christian Groups” lacked the support/signature of any clergy member from the LDS Faith:

Coalition Of Christian Groups Sign Joint Letter Urging Scouts To Maintain Gay Ban

Over fifty Christian leaders representing dozens of groups have signed a joint letter urging the Boy Scouts to maintain their ban on gay members.

We strongly support the Boy Scouts of America current prohibition on open homosexuality and retaining it without revision. Nearly 70 percent of BSA troops are hosted by churches and religious institutions. Upholding traditional morality is vital for sustaining this partnership, for protecting Scout members, and for ensuring BSA has a strong future. A proposal from the BSA board to prohibit “discrimination” based on “sexual orientation or preference” for BSA members potentially would open the Scouts to a wide range of open sexual expressions. In our current culture, it is more important than ever for our churches to protect and provide moral nurture for young people and for the Scouts. We implore members of the upcoming BSA Council to affirm the BSA’s present policy, which the U.S. Supreme Court has affirmed, and which has served BSA well.

Among those signing the letter are the Southern Baptist Convention, United Pentecostal Church International, North American Lutheran Church, Anglican Church in North America, United Methodists, and Assemblies of God.

The second article (below) is significant, I believe, for several reasons:

1. it comes from the President of the BSA himself

2. it closely mirrors the statement issued by the LDS Church

3. it emphasizes that the issue is the result of internal, scouting-member and familyforces—not external pressure groups or lobbies.

4. it appears to be very careful not to condemn or endorse homosexuality

5. it affirms and acknowledges the expert consensus that there is no link between homosexuality and sexual abuse

6. it affirms scouting’s commitment to providing a safe environment to boys.

Boy Scouts president: Let in gay boys

http://m.usatoday.co...le/news/2351907

Cherie Cullen, AP

by Wayne Perry, USATODAY

The Boy Scouts of America is part of the fabric of this nation. Our focus is on working together to deliver the nation's foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training. Somehow, Scouting has become one of the focal points in the debate on homosexuality. However, it is not the role of the Boy Scouts to resolve this complex issue, nor can the decision we will make today.

In 2000, the Supreme Court ruled that the BSA has the right to set its membership standards. It is worth noting that the court's decision was not about whether homosexuality is right or wrong; rather, it affirmed that private organizations have the right to set membership rules based on their beliefs and values.

At the BSA's National Annual Meeting today, the 1,400 voting members of our National Council will vote on a proposed resolution that would end the restriction on gay youth membership. That's the right decision for Boy Scouts.

Duty to God

Today's proposed resolution reaffirms our core belief in doing one's "duty to God." It would remove the restriction denying membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation alone and would maintain the current membership policy for all adult leaders. Further, the resolution reinforces that Scouting is a youth program, and that any sexual conduct, heterosexual or homosexual, is contrary to the virtues of Scouting. It also prohibits the use of the organization to promote or advance any social or political positions or agendas.

While some people wish the proposed resolution would go further, it was clear from our listening phase that changing adult standards would have conflicted with the majority of our partners, 70% of which are religious organizations, and would have disrupted our ability to deliver Scouting. Conversely, some have asserted that the proposed change for youth runs counter to the values of, and raises concerns among, Scouting's religious chartered organizations. We are unaware of any major religious chartered organization that believes a youth member simply stating he or she is attracted to the same sex, but not engaging in sexual activity, should make him or her unwelcome in their congregation. We reviewed a variety of policy options and concluded this option would provide kids a place to belong while they learn and grow.

About the kids

The change to the Boy Scouts of America's membership policy is not the result of pressure from outside; it is the result of extensive dialogue within the Scouting family. Parents, adults in the Scouting community and teens alike tend to agree that youth should not be denied the benefits of Scouting. The resolution is not about adults; it is about what is best for young people.

Some have voiced concerns that this proposal could put children at risk of being abused. The BSA makes no connection between sexual abuse and homosexuality. The nation's leading experts agree. The BSA has stringent polices that protect the safety and privacy of youth and has always worked to ensure that it is a supportive and safe environment.

The BSA's executive committee unanimously presented this resolution because it stays true to Scouting's mission and remains focused on kids. No matter what your opinion is on this issue, America needs Scouting, and our policies must be based on what is in the best interest of our nation's children.

Wayne Perry is the president of the Boy Scouts of America.

Copyright 2013 USATODAY.com

Edit: I've tried re-formatting the font size and spacing on this dang post a gazillion times to make it more readable. It ends up either being miniscule or gigantic. I give up. Sorry for the format! (It must be because, in my topsy-turvy world, big is small, and small is big... to Wade).

Daniel2

[Stone holm]

I found two items of note on the gays-in-scouting issue, today.

The first I found significant namely because the statement issued by a “Coalition of Christian Groups” lacked the support/signature of any clergy member from the LDS Faith:

The second article (below) is significant, I believe, for several reasons:

1. it comes from the President of the BSA himself

2. it closely mirrors the statement issued by the LDS Church

3. it emphasizes that the issue is the result of internal forces—not external pressure.

4. it appears to be very careful not to condemn or endorse homosexuality

5. it affirms and acknowledges the expert consensus that there is no link between homosexuality and sexual abuse

6. it affirms scouting’s commitment to providing a safe environment to boys.

Edit: I've tried re-formatting the font size and spacing on this dang post a gazillion times to make it more readable. It ends up either being miniscule or gigantic. I give up. Sorry for the format! (It must be because, in my topsy-turvy world, big is small, and small is big... to Wade).

Daniel2

The big question is not whether we signed, the Church had already expressed its satisfaction, the question is did a representative of th Roman Catholics sign?

[Daniel2]

The big question is not whether we signed, the Church had already expressed its satisfaction, the question is did a representative of th Roman Catholics sign?

The link to the actual document and it's signees is in my first post on the subject. I just read through them, and didn't see any Catholic clergy on the list.

[Daniel2]

Boy Scouts vote on gay members: What's at stake

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18427969-boy-scouts-vote-on-gay-members-whats-at-stake?lite

With the Boy Scouts of America set to vote on a policy that would allow openly gay youths to participate, activists ramp up the volume on their protests.

By Miranda Leitsinger and Jason White, NBC News

After years of emotional debate, the Boy Scouts of America are considering a proposal at their annual meeting to allow gay youths to participate openly in the popular organization for the first time.

The exclusion of gay Scouts has been the subject of much wrangling and soul searching in the century-old organization -- from local troops and councils to online petitions to national board meetings. The dispute was even heard by the Supreme Court, which said 13 years ago that as a private membership organization the BSA was free to decide who it would admit.

Here is a rundown of what is at stake in the vote, which is scheduled to take place Thursday among the 1,400 delegates of the National Council gathered in Grapevine, Texas.

What would the new membership policy look like?

The proposal would lift the organization’s ban on openly gay youth participants, but it would continue to bar gay adults from being Scout leaders.

Subject to gut-wrenching debate over morality and rights, the proposal would impact more than 100,000 scouting units, such as Cub Scout packs and Boy Scout troops, that involve nearly 3 million youths and more than 1 million adults.

Generations of Scouts have weighed in on the issue in private and in public, with partisans on both sides threatening to withdraw from participating depending on how it is resolved.

Why is the scouting organization considering this change now?

BSA leaders won’t say exactly why now, but more than a decade after the Supreme Court said the organization was on solid legal ground in excluding gays, the debate quite simply won’t go away. Last summer, the Boy Scouts reaffirmed their anti-gay policy, after a two-year examination by a committee. Since then, some local chapters have been pushing for a reconsideration.

Meanwhile issues related to gay rights -- such as gay marriage and adoption -- are gaining wider public acceptance, and lobbying campaigns by Jennifer Tyrrell, a lesbian who was ousted from her role as den mother last year, and Zach Wahls, an Eagle Scout who was raised by two lesbian mothers, kept the debate in the public eye. Activists have also pressured corporate sponsors, many of which have non-discrimination clauses tied to their giving, to withdraw funding unless the policy is changed.

Stephen B. Thornton / Stephen B. Thornton for NBC News

Pack 215 Cub Scouts recite the Pledge of Allegiance at their pack meeting at Eagle Heights Baptist Church on Tuesday in Harrison, Ark. The church's pastor has said it will not stay on as sponsor if the policy is changed.

Who is for the proposal, and who is against?

It’s unclear exactly how many scouts and councils -- which oversee the scouting units -- are on each side of the debate, and we’ll have to wait for the results of the secret ballot to see which side is victorious. Some councils have publicly said they will not continue if gay youths are allowed, while others have called for gay adults to be included too.

Religion looms large over the debate. The Scouts explicitly invoke God in their membership guidelines, and more than 70 percent of Boy Scout units are sponsored by religious groups. One of the Southern Baptist Church leaders, Dr. Frank Page, last week implored the Boy Scouts not to change the policy. But The Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints – the BSA's biggest charter partner-- has given tacit endorsement to the plan; the National Catholic Council on Scouting has yet to take a position.

Even Barack Obama and Mitt Romney weighed in on the debate during the presidential race. Perhaps one of the most important voices, BSA President Wayne Perry on Wednesday wrote an op-ed in USA TODAY supporting the inclusion of gay boys.

Under the proposal, what would happen to an Eagle Scout who is gay and wants to volunteer as an adult? That wouldn’t be allowed?

That is the big criticism of this policy in more progressive quarters: That life-long, successful scouts essentially will be banned from the organization on their 18th birthday because they are gay. Conservatives also note the tension inherent in the policy, saying it could be a slippery slope: They believe allowing gay youths would undermine the legal underpinnings of the Supreme Court decision, ultimately leading to gay adult volunteers being admitted into the organization.

Will individual local troops be allowed to exclude gay youths if they have moral objections?

In short, no. Here is how Deron Smith, spokesperson for the BSA puts it: “If passed, no youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone.” This has led some parents and Scout leaders who object to homosexuality to consider alternatives to Scouting, for fear that the resolution might pass.

If gays are allowed, will parents be able to object, for example, to their son sharing a tent with a gay Scout?

This is a real concern among some parents, as evidenced by its inclusion on the BSA’s internal survey on the issue. But Scouting leaders haven’t addressed the matter directly. Instead, they refer generally to maintaining a “supportive and safe environment for young people.” The organization has created a task force to make sure the policy could be implemented smoothly, and they are looking into how other organizations have handled these issues.

If it passes, will this proposal end the infighting, or is this just the beginning?

The BSA may hope this vote will end the debate, but more likely, it will touch off a whole new one. Some troops may disband. Those affiliated with Southern Baptist churches, for example, could lose their charters. And more liberal Scout leaders will lobby to have gay adults included as well -- an issue that is not going to fade anytime soon.

[Daniel2]

26 Apr, 2013

Mormon church OK with ending Boy Scouts' ban on gay youth

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/26/17928520-mormon-church-ok-with-ending-boy-scouts-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has given tacit approval to the Boy Scouts’ proposal to allow gay youth to join, saying they “appreciate the positive things” included in the plan to end the organization's controversial ban on gay boys.

The Boy Scouts of America last week proposed allowing gay youth – but not adults – to participate in the private youth organization. That came two months after they floated the idea of allowing gays and lesbians of all ages to join, a proposal that was denounced by the conservative religious groups that make up a bulk of Scouting.

“We are grateful to BSA for their careful consideration of these issues. We appreciate the positive things contained in this current proposal that will help build and strengthen the moral character and leadership skills of youth as we work together in the future,” the LDS church said Thursday in a statement posted to their website.

“The current BSA proposal constructively addresses a number of important issues that have been part of the ongoing dialogue, including consistent standards for all BSA partners, recognition that Scouting exists to serve and benefit youth rather than Scout leaders, a single standard of moral purity for youth in the program, and a renewed emphasis for Scouts to honor their duty to God."

The Mormon church tops the list of membership enrollment numbers, with 431,000 youths participating in LDS-sponsored units as of Dec. 31, 2012. That was followed by the United Methodist Church at 364,000 and the Catholic Church at 274,000. More than 70 percent of Scouting units are chartered to faith-based groups.

The Boy Scouts said Thursday in a statement that it was pleased the LDS church was “satisfied that the BSA has made a thoughtful, good-faith effort to address this issue.”

“For nearly 100 years we have worked together with the mutual goal of building the moral character and leadership skills of youth. We believe kids are better off when they are in Scouting, and the program is successful because of its relationships with valued chartered organizations like the Church,” the statement said.

The Boy Scouts’ policy has increasingly been a sore spot for the organization over the last year, following the dismissal of a den leader because she is a lesbian and the denial of the Eagle Scout rank to a California teen because he is gay.

The BSA’s National Council will vote on changing the membership policy on May 23. Its biannual “The Voice of the Scout Survey,” conducted earlier this year, for the first time included questions on gay membership.

Among the 280 administrative local councils, half recommended no change, 38 percent recommended a change and 14 percent took a neutral position, the Scouts said.

"While perspectives and opinions vary significantly, parents, adults in the Scouting community and teens alike tend to agree that youth should not be denied the benefits of Scouting," the organization said last week in a statement.

[Stone holm]

The link to the actual document and it's signees is in my first post on the subject. I just read through them, and didn't see any Catholic clergy on the list.

You seem to be right the two Churches with the most clout seem to be sitting this one out.