CASteinman Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 But maybe you just ought to ask a few women who were for this what it means to them.If I knew any personally, I would.
CASteinman Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 point = just because you are not paying attention doesn't mean that others have no reason to be hurt by a policy that was not based on Doctrine but rather a cultural norm in the world that had males take charge and leave little to females.On the other hand, getting your nose bent out of shape over this is was not a normal or standard reaction. And probably for good reasons as well.
Tacenda Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 I'm stoked that a woman prayed at conference. But I will revoke that approval if her prayer goes longer than 2 minutes. Save the monologue for home...sheesh.I hope women pray again today in conference and it goes well over the 2 min. mark , yesterday's conference ended quite early for the first in my memory, maybe to allow her enough time, for which I think was so gracious!
Deborah Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 I already told you what it means based on their FB site. It means they feel important now. Many of these women were complaining they didn't feel validated. They used words like "feeling trampled on". They also compared it to rape and abuse and racism. Here is their stated goal: "While women hold important positions within the church, a woman has never given the opening or closing prayer at General Conference. We ask that women be invited to pray in General Conference, as a symbol of equality within our church."Here are some quotes:"And if you DON'T see the comparison to other historical instances of inequity, then you are part of the problem.Ponder that next time you get trampled on for being a woman.And perhaps consider that in countries with the highest degree of equity between the genders, there are much lower rates of rape of females, battery within relationships, etc.So yeah. This is much bigger than what you realise. ""Yes, there are more important things. Things like rape, spousal abuse, the huge rates of depression and suicide in Utah...and the ways in which one affects the other. THAT is why THIS is important. In an of itself women praying in GC is no big deal. It's everything that it links to that IS a big deal.""(I want to hear a woman pray in conference) because every time I’m on a plane, and the captain’s voice on the intercom is female, I get a little teary. I’ve never wanted to be a pilot, and it really doesn’t make any practical difference whether a man or a woman lands the plane safely. I have no eloquent or reasoned argument to explain my emotion. But it matters. It. Just. Does.I want my daughter to know girls can fly.""Yes, I feel the need for validation from the members of my faith community and the leaders of my church that my contributions and voice are valued and loved. Not because I "care what they think," but because we are taught that "by your fruits ye shall know them." The way the leaders of the church treat their members is part of their fruits, and the way you treat your sisters is part of your fruits.""there is no equality without equal access to authority. Do LDS men and women have equal access to authority? That is why LDS men and LDS women are not equal."What I find sad about the whole thing is that these women feel so unequal and so put down because they haven't prayed before in GC where I myself never even noticed who prays and couldn't care less.
changed Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 The person at the head of the line all too often fails to see those behind him.. This is why the best leaders are those who began their journey as humble followers. Those who rejoice and humbly accept an eternal role of being a follower, who honestly see the beauty and nobility of having the job of being the wind benieth someone else's wings - these are Christ's real leaders - leaders who do not see themselves as leaders, but are leaders none the less.
Kerry A. Shirts Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 "There are few things more powerful than the prayers of a righteous mother." ~ Boyd K PackerIt's too bad the statistics destroy this nice comforting sentimental piece of wishful thinking. God allows over 10,000,000 mothers to watch their children starve to death in their arms annually. Yeah, once again, as we see on the vast majority of issues, the evidence destroys the faith promoting assumptions and assertions.
urroner Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 "There are few things more powerful than the prayers of a righteous mother." ~ Boyd K PackerIt's too bad the statistics destroy this nice comforting sentimental piece of wishful thinking. God allows over 10,000,000 mothers to watch their children starve to death in their arms annually. Yeah, once again, as we see on the vast majority of issues, the evidence destroys the faith promoting assumptions and assertions.So God should force us all to do righteousness and not allow any evil nor perceived evil in this world, but that is for another thread Kerry,
Nathair/|\ Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 Not I. In fact, I hate praying in church. I'm terribly self-conscious because I feel like I'm in this awkward position of making small talk with an intimate friend and worse yet, doing so on a stage. It's hard to describe but it feels like play acting and I suck at small talk.I know the feeling very well. 2
Damien the Leper Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 I've never been very good at praying. It's like chopping wood with a dull axe. 1
reubendunn1 Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 It's about time that a woman got the last word!
why me Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) "There are few things more powerful than the prayers of a righteous mother." ~ Boyd K PackerIt's too bad the statistics destroy this nice comforting sentimental piece of wishful thinking. God allows over 10,000,000 mothers to watch their children starve to death in their arms annually. Yeah, once again, as we see on the vast majority of issues, the evidence destroys the faith promoting assumptions and assertions.God doesn't allow it but people do by creating a socio-economic system that allows it to happen. The lure of profit above people can be quite hypnotizing. If you are so concerned about this issue don't blame god but you can blame yourself since it is happening under your watch. Edited April 7, 2013 by why me
why me Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 "There are few things more powerful than the prayers of a righteous mother." ~ Boyd K PackerThis is a true statement.
why me Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 "There are few things more powerful than the prayers of a righteous mother." ~ Boyd K PackerIt's too bad the statistics destroy this nice comforting sentimental piece of wishful thinking. God allows over 10,000,000 mothers to watch their children starve to death in their arms annually. Yeah, once again, as we see on the vast majority of issues, the evidence destroys the faith promoting assumptions and assertions.I think that george burns said it best:
PoisonWell Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 I don't think that there was a ban. I think that it was a just a cultural thing: the priesthood holders were asked to say the prayers. I do think that someone did notice a few months back and probably said a 'what the heck' and it was changed. That is my humble opinion. How can it be a 'cultural thing' when it's being done in church? I guess it could be partly cultural, but it's still at least equally church related.Here's a blog talking about the ban, to confirm it happened: http://blogs.standard.net/the-political-surf/2013/02/25/temporary-mistaken-ban/But I guess this ban was from other meetings, and was eventually lifted during the late 70s. Whereas the unspoken conference ban was just broken now.
Bikeemikey Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 "There are few things more powerful than the prayers of a righteous mother." ~ Boyd K PackerIt's too bad the statistics destroy this nice comforting sentimental piece of wishful thinking. God allows over 10,000,000 mothers to watch their children starve to death in their arms annually. Yeah, once again, as we see on the vast majority of issues, the evidence destroys the faith promoting assumptions and assertions.Your response makes not sense. God is more powerful than the prayers of mothers and yet there is still the problem.Are you wanting to suggest that because of suffering there is no God? Or because there is a specific instance of suffering that God didn't help them?
Bikeemikey Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 How can it be a 'cultural thing' when it's being done in church? I guess it could be partly cultural, but it's still at least equally church related.Here's a blog talking about the ban, to confirm it happened: http://blogs.standar...y-mistaken-ban/But I guess this ban was from other meetings, and was eventually lifted during the late 70s. Whereas the unspoken conference ban was just broken now.Because the church sometimes does things for cultural reasons?
why me Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 How can it be a 'cultural thing' when it's being done in church? I guess it could be partly cultural, but it's still at least equally church related.Here's a blog talking about the ban, to confirm it happened: http://blogs.standar...y-mistaken-ban/But I guess this ban was from other meetings, and was eventually lifted during the late 70s. Whereas the unspoken conference ban was just broken now.But I see no ban. I just see one woman mentioning that it was a ban. I think that it was assumed that priesthood holders said the opening and closing prayers at conference. Is that a ban? No. It becomes a cultural reason. There was no official ban on women saying the prayer during conference.
why me Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 Because the church sometimes does things for cultural reasons?There are many cultural traits in the lds church. Why are meetings segregated? Why do mormons have a young women's and a young men's organization? Why not one organization? There are cultural reasons for this. Mormons even have their own vocabulary which is also cultural.
Bikeemikey Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 There are many cultural traits in the lds church. Why are meetings segregated? Why do mormons have a young women's and a young men's organization? Why not one organization? There are cultural reasons for this. Mormons even have their own vocabulary which is also cultural.Agreed!
CASteinman Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 There are many cultural traits in the lds church. Why are meetings segregated? Why do mormons have a young women's and a young men's organization? Why not one organization? There are cultural reasons for this. Mormons even have their own vocabulary which is also cultural.These are not totally cultural i think. For example.. meetings segregated by age -- isn't that more a matter of development that crosses all cultures?And as for mens groups and women's groups, I *guess* you could say it is cultural -- human culture though. Its pretty common around the world that the needs of men and women are different. 1
Questing Beast Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 I never even noticed before that women haven't prayed in General Conference.The session ended early, allowing her to pray a sermon. The temptation must have been great? She did well and kept it down to the usual length, somewhat long but not too long. I didn't even notice at the time that it was unique to be hearing a woman pray in GC.... 1
Deborah Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 There are many cultural traits in the lds church. Why are meetings segregated? Why do mormons have a young women's and a young men's organization?Primarily because of different needs of each group I would think. Many young men/young women activities are done together as well. 2
PoisonWell Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 Because the church sometimes does things for cultural reasons?I don't think denying the privilige of praying in conference can just be written off as 'a cultural thing.' As soon as it's inside the church, it may be motivated by culture, but it isn't just a cultural thing. And if it is purely motivated by culture, it's a somewhat misogynist culture.But I see no ban. I just see one woman mentioning that it was a ban. I think that it was assumed that priesthood holders said the opening and closing prayers at conference. Is that a ban? No. It becomes a cultural reason. There was no official ban on women saying the prayer during conference.When you don't allow a certain group to do something, that is considered a ban. You can argue it's 'a cultural thing,' or motivated by culture, but I don't see how that changes anything.
Scott Lloyd Posted April 7, 2013 Author Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) When you don't allow a certain group to do something, that is considered a ban. You can argue it's 'a cultural thing,' or motivated by culture, but I don't see how that changes anything.I agree with why me. Applying the emotion-laden term of "ban" or labeling it as misogyny is overwrought hyperbole,I recall very clearly from my childhood, long before the days of the Conference Center, when general conference sessions emanated from the Salt Lake Tabernacle, that the main floor of the Tabernacle was reserved for priesthood leaders visiting from out of town. Other conference-goers could be seated in the gallery and, when there was left-over seating, at the rear of the main floor. And, of course, everyone who could was invited to tune in via radio or television. But the priority was very much the priesthood leaders, and the unspoken message was that the conference was primarily for them, and they would be expected to convey the messages and admonitions to those over whom they presided, particularly in areas where the conference broadcasts could not be received.This, of course, has evolved over time, but I think the practice, first of having the speakers be exclusively General Authorities, and, until this weekend, the prayers being offered exclusively by priesthood holders, stems from those old days. Edited April 7, 2013 by Scott Lloyd 1
why me Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) Primarily because of different needs of each group I would think. Many young men/young women activities are done together as well.This is true. But there are many culturalisms that for an outsider may seem strange. And of course such culturalisms can change and new cultures are formed. For example, old timers remember the the word inactive and now it is less active. I also remember the term special interest. Now...there is no such group. Edited April 7, 2013 by why me
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