Faithful Mormons Are Terrorists?

[thesometimesaint]

I'm more concerned with the anti-government groups stockpiling of guns than of food.

[ERayR]

All he cares about is attacking the Obama administration with ridiculous claims.

Not that he has to look very hard for ridiculous things from there to talk about.

[Nathair/|\]

As far as I can tell, the Drs. Paul subscribe to the same political philosophy as Captain Moroni. (Alma 60:36) Dr. Paul Jr. is simply trying to put himself in a position where he can achieve Moroni's objectives.

That being said, the government already forced the Church to suspend one practice in the 1870's, is it reasonable to be concerned that they might do the same thing today?

Edited March 7, 2013 by Nathair

[Paloma]

name='Tacenda' timestamp='1362634737' post='1209232931']

... wanted to succeed and not be apart of the USA ...

Do you mean "wanted to secede??" I think so!

Pretty sure you didn't mean that bailing out of the Union would be a success for Utah!

[Sleeper Cell]

The OP refers to a specific assertion on a government website that there could be a connection between those who store food and terrorism. This statement on page 5 seems to be the one:

"Antigovernment conspiracy theories and “end times” prophecies could motivate extremist individuals and groups to stockpile food, ammunition, and weapons."

The state of California encourages people to store food and water to some extent. It used to be a few days supply; now they recommend having enough for a few weeks. The idea is to have enough to survive until emergency supplies arrive. Although I don’t have a source handy, I am sure that this is consistent with federal recommendations. .

The federal and California state governments are making an “outreach” to “Faith Based Organizations” to help the government(s) prepare for and respond to disasters. Among other things, they are starting to realize that FBOs have much more credibility with their own members (and with people, in general) than the government does. For example, in times of disaster, people are much more likely to listen to what government representatives say if their words are backed up by local religious leaders. They also realize that, in a disaster, professional first responders will need all the help they can get. Of course, there are ongoing debates on how to best utilize volunteers (especially when large numbers suddenly show up and the professional first responders have no idea of their background or training or even if they are able to work within the incident command structure).

That said, it would not exactly be unprecedented for one government agency to have policies that undercut those of another agency. What concerns me about the subject quotation:

"Antigovernment conspiracy theories and “end times” prophecies could motivate extremist individuals and groups to stockpile food, ammunition, and weapons."

is not the actual sentence. Much of disaster and anti-terrorism planning deals with the “what ifs.” What troubles me is the apparent absence of the usual disclaimers/qualifiers that emphasize that there are many non-extremists who do the same things, yet pose no threat to anyone. Such disclaimers are typically included in even the most basic anti-terrorist awareness training manuals and are emphasized by the instructors.

In this case, something like the following should have been added:

There are many non extremist people and groups who also stockpile food and weapons. Many of these non-extremists also believe in “end time” prophecies. Some FBOs, such as the Mormons, encourage its members to store a years supply of food, water, and other supplies. Far from being anti-government extremists, these FBOs generally have a long history of cooperating with government disaster response efforts. Furthermore, FEMA and state emergency management agencies also encourage individuals to store food and water.

. .

This is more than mere “political correctness.” What some have called “religious illiteracy” is a growing problem in this country. While the LDS church does have “a long track record of teaching and encouraging food storage,” many people (even federal and state employees of disaster response and anti-terrorism agencies) are not aware of it. Civil liberties concerns aside, it is important that those involved in anti-terrorism are able to distinguish friend from foe.

[Rock_N_Roll]

I know in Utah they are pushing to get a law to make it so no-one would need a gun permit to carry one. So anyone can buy a gun, no background checks. Their logic is that if more people were thought to be armed their wouldn't be crime. I wonder if they know more than we do and forsee a standoff with the government. Quite a few Utahns wanted to succeed and not be apart of the USA, maybe this is a factor. BTW, I looked on pg. 5 of the report mentioned above and didn't see Mormons listed anywhere.

Actually, what some people in Utah are advocating is a "constitutional carry" gun bill that would allow weapons to be concealed without a permit.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865574696/Gun-rights-enthusiasts-march-on-Utahs-Capitol-Hill.html?pg=all

I don't believe that bill says "anyone can buy a gun, no background check".

[emarkp]

I'm more concerned with the anti-government groups stockpiling of guns than of food.

Anarchists? I wouldn't worry. They can never get organized.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Mormon "fundamentalists" are terrorists in embryo. All it would take is another persecution, especially by the Gov't, and they would take to the hills and wage war physically in defense of their religion. Don't "wait for iiit", though....

Last time "what's his name" went to jail, not much else happened.

[mapman]

"Antigovernment conspiracy theories and “end times” prophecies could motivate extremist individuals and groups to stockpile food, ammunition, and weapons."

Since the church doesn't encourage people to stockpile ammunition or guns, would this even apply to us? I find it hard to imagine that anyone would think that people who store food are dangerous.

[Tacenda]

Do you mean "wanted to secede??" I think so!

Pretty sure you didn't mean that bailing out of the Union would be a success for Utah!

Yes, and I even remember this same topic a few months ago! I think I was trying so hard to not put that, that I did.

[Tacenda]

Actually, what some people in Utah are advocating is a "constitutional carry" gun bill that would allow weapons to be concealed without a permit.

http://www.deseretne...ill.html?pg=all

I don't believe that bill says "anyone can buy a gun, no background check".

Was I wrong again? Sorry, I could have swore the news that night said, not even a background check would be needed.

ETA: Maybe I was thinking since they don't need a permit to carry a gun, that would mean there would be no background check in the first place. Maybe only certain individuals can purchase a gun under those circumstances though.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Tacenda

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

"Antigovernment conspiracy theories and “end times” prophecies could motivate extremist individuals and groups to stockpile food, ammunition, and weapons."

Since the church doesn't encourage people to stockpile ammunition or guns, would this even apply to us? I find it hard to imagine that anyone would think that people who store food are dangerous.

If you plan to hunt and have meat, how would guns and ammo be a bad thing? Guns for hunting or protection are not evil in any way. I am a collector, former Army and Police, never shot anyone in my life. "Praise be to God"!

[Ahab]

A few minutes ago, today, on the Senate floor, Rand Paul reported that a government website is saying that if you store food, you might be a terrorist. What does this mean for those like the Saints who hold that storing food is a religious duty?

It means somebody thinks anyone who stores food may be a terrorist. That's not going to deter me, though. Most of us do, store food, I mean. It's called a pantry, even a well stocked pantry. Deal with it, Rand. Sheesh. What some people think is ridiculous. Edited March 8, 2013 by Ahab

[mapman]

If you plan to hunt and have meat, how would guns and ammo be a bad thing? Guns for hunting or protection are not evil in any way. I am a collector, former Army and Police, never shot anyone in my life. "Praise be to God"!

All I was saying is that plenty of Mormons don't have guns but store food (such as my family). If someone is stockpiling guns, it isn't because they are Mormon.

Edited March 7, 2013 by mapman

[thesometimesaint]

If you plan to hunt and have meat, how would guns and ammo be a bad thing? Guns for hunting or protection are not evil in any way. I am a collector, former Army and Police, never shot anyone in my life. "Praise be to God"!

The sound of a 12 gauge pump action shot gun has a very sobering effect. I don't need an arsenal to do quite a bit of damage. I've shot and killed men. Thank God I'm still here.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

The sound of a 12 gauge pump action shot gun has a very sobering effect. I don't need an arsenal to do quite a bit of damage. I've shot and killed men. Thank God I'm still here.

Try have a .38 being cocked against your head...I though I was done for! Was arresting someone, who asked; can I go in my Apt before the car gets here for me? I said, "no for all I know you will get a gun (somewhat joking because it was a bench warrant and he seems harmless) he said..."no sir I need to get ride of one" my partner had not checked him yet", now it was a concealed weapons charge.

[thesometimesaint]

I've looked down the wrong end of more than one gun. Not a fun experience. All I can say is thank God I'm here and they're not.

[USU78]

For those who find it unthinkable that the gov't might confiscate "hoarded" food or arrest, try and punish those who "hoard," I remind them of what happened in Britain and the US during WWII, Rationing of food, gas, and other commodities was in place, and laws, in the US under the War Powers Clause of the Constitution, were passed to prevent hoarding: http://www.recipes4us.co.uk/History/WWII%20Food%20Rationing.htm .

I've heard rumors of "hoarders" getting roughed up by neighbors during these times. Only rumors, though. I've seen no reports that gave any stats, but could one reasonably expect that, during a death struggle, one would be funding sociological research?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

For those who find it unthinkable that the gov't might confiscate "hoarded" food or arrest, try and punish those who "hoard," I remind them of what happened in Britain and the US during WWII, Rationing of food, gas, and other commodities was in place, and laws, in the US under the War Powers Clause of the Constitution, were passed to prevent hoarding: http://www.recipes4us.co.uk/History/WWII%20Food%20Rationing.htm .

I've heard rumors of "hoarders" getting roughed up by neighbors during these times. Only rumors, though. I've seen no reports that gave any stats, but could one reasonably expect that, during a death struggle, one would be funding sociological research?

When I lived in Germany the military PX issued ration cards for each item covered by our WoW. Mormons were big targets for others to seek us out to get ours.

[tyler90az]

I've heard rumors of "hoarders" getting roughed up by neighbors during these times.

I think we should be way more worried about that then the government taking our food.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I think we should be way more worried about that then the government taking our food.

But is is the Gov't who would know where it is...

[thesometimesaint]

Not necessarily. From the outside, and I keep the inside clean and well organized, my house looks like any other ranch style tract house in southern California. I don't draw attention from others, including the government. Few if any know or would know about my food storage.

[Daniel Peterson]

Rand Paul only cares about furthering himself in politics. All he cares about is attacking the Obama administration with ridiculous claims. That whole drone strike on the US soil accusation is retarded and a waste of time. I hope for the sake of America he never becomes President. Thre has never been a politician that is so transparent in the fact he cares about no one but himself and how to politically move up. It is hard to believe people eat up what he says.

I had dinner with him a few years ago in Las Vegas. I found him very pleasant, extremely bright, and thoroughly genuine.

And I have a friend who knows him very well, has even traveled with him to the Middle East recently, and feels precisely the same.

Here's a relevant comment that I posted about him on my blog: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2013/03/dr-paul-goes-to-washington.html

Just for the record.

[Sleeper Cell]

Not necessarily. From the outside, and I keep the inside clean and well organized, my house looks like any other ranch style tract house in southern California. I don't draw attention from others, including the government. Few if any know or would know about my food storage.

I live in southern California and one of my neighbors has a ranch style tract house. You don’t suppose ….?

[thesometimesaint]

Coulds be.