volgadon Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 Black Friday reminds me of Woland's Black Magic Session and its Exposure held in the Variete Theatre. A pivotal scene in Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita. The Devil tries the people of Moscow to see what they are like on the inside. 1
Calm Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 Black Friday reminds me of Woland's Black Magic Session and its Exposure held in the Variete Theatre. A pivotal scene in Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita. The Devil tries the people of Moscow to see what they are like on the inside.It is strange to me that a holiday that is to celebrate thankfulness for what we have is being supplanted by a 'holiday' that celebrates indulgence, acquisitiveness and even perhaps greed.I don't see it as inherently wrong unless taken to extremes. Saving money is not a bad thing and if you are buying it anyway, why not take advantage of the sales. However, if you only buy it because you are persuaded by the marketing schemes or the shopping becomes more important to you then being with family, etc. then I think it can be problematic.
WalkerW Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 One could say the same thing about the commercialization of Thanksgiving, Christmas, and other "sacred" holidays.
WalkerW Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 Black Friday reminds me of Woland's Black Magic Session and its Exposure held in the Variete Theatre. A pivotal scene in Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita. The Devil tries the people of Moscow to see what they are like on the inside.You and your literary references. :-) 1
volgadon Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 You and your literary references. :-)I never leave home without one. =) 2
Calm Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) One could say the same thing about the commercialization of Thanksgiving, Christmas, and other "sacred" holidays.Indeed. At least no one is pretending there is the least sacred thing about Black Friday. They are being totally up front about its sole purpose. Edited November 24, 2012 by calmoriah
WalkerW Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 Nonetheless, an appropriate balance is needed in our consumption. One must have a continual sense of gratitude. This is an absolutely essential aspect of the gospel. Yet, there is nothing wrong with increasing in quality and quantity. If there was, we'd just tell the poor to "be grateful" for what they have and cease providing care for them.As Joseph Smith once prayed,"Lord, we thank Thee for this Johnny cake, and ask Thee to send us something better. Amen."**As recalled by Elder John Lyman Smith, brother of President George Albert Smith, and recorded in The Juvenile Instructor (1892).
MorningStar Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 If you don't like corporations, buy only the stuff marked down and nothing else. They lure you in in hopes you will stay and spend more, which I'm sure a lot of people do because they already went to the trouble to get there, so the might as well get most of their Christmas shopping done.
volgadon Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 It is strange to me that a holiday that is to celebrate thankfulness for what we have is being supplanted by a 'holiday' that celebrates indulgence, acquisitiveness and even perhaps greed.I don't see it as inherently wrong unless taken to extremes. Saving money is not a bad thing and if you are buying it anyway, why not take advantage of the sales. However, if you only buy it because you are persuaded by the marketing schemes or the shopping becomes more important to you then being with family, etc. then I think it can be problematic.Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to sales. My remark was more about the general attitude in which many people seem to engage in Black Friday. The entry of the magician with his tall assistant and his cat, who trotted on stage on his hind legs, pleased the audience greatly. 'Armchair, please,' said Woland quietly and instantly an armchair appeared on stage from nowhere. The magician sat down. 'Tell me, my dear Faggot,' Woland enquired of the check-clad buffoon, who apparently had another name besides 'Koroviev,': 'do you find the people of Moscow much changed?' The magician nodded towards the audience, still silent with astonishment at seeing an armchair materialise from nowhere. 'I do, messire,' replied Faggot-Koroviev in a low voice. 'You are right. The Muscovites have changed considerably... outwardly, I mean... as, too, has the city itself... Not just the clothes, but now they have all these... what d'you call 'em... tramways, cars...' 'Buses,' prompted Faggot respectfully....'Well, now,' replied the magician reflectively. 'They're people like any others. They're over-fond of money, but then they always were... Humankind loves money, no matter if it's made of leather, paper, bronze or gold. They're thoughtless, of course... but then they sometimes feel compassion too... they're ordinary people, in fact they remind me very much of their predecessors, except that the housing shortage has soured them...' 1
WalkerW Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to sales. My remark was more about the general attitude in which many people seem to engage in Black Friday.Thank you for clarifying this. I'm very much convinced that materialism and consumerism are not one in the same Edited November 24, 2012 by WalkerW
WalkerW Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 It might also be worth pointing out that it is generally those with lower income and younger that participate in Black Friday: http://www.forbes.com/sites/helaineolen/2012/11/23/who-really-shops-on-black-friday/One could look at this and see it as corporations "exploiting the poor." Or you could see it as a end-of-the-year boost in living standards for those who are, out of necessity, cost conscious. Take your pick.
Duncan Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 Riddle me this... if all the money spent on Black Friday,was instead donated to homeless shelters,would there still be the same number of shelters next year?You could donate your money for the poor to yours truly and i'll spend it come Boxing day! make everyone feel good! You donated to a poor person and I got stuff. it's a winning system 2
Stargazer Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 Just interested in hearing what people think about Black Friday. Is it a good thing for a Latter-day Saint to participate in?Why the heck not? Are you angling for some kind of pharisaic pronouncement or something? Jeeze, if we can't participate in Black Friday, then we must pay full retail price for everything! Including when it isn't Black Friday. I can see it now, go into WalMart, see the price on an item is $1.50, then at the checkout demand to pay full MSRP of $2.00. Sue them if they refuse to drop their price, claiming religious discrimination.Next question: is it OK for a Latter-day Saint to refinance his house at more than 80% of market value?
Stargazer Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 I think it testifies to are our wanton gluttonyRidiculous. I think it testifies to our desire to get the best possible price for an item.
Stargazer Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 "Black Friday" is a corporate concept motived entirely by greed, gluttony and the worship of material possessions. The corps must feed their lust for money - which is never satisfied. They use the "keep up with the Jones" concept to dupe the crowds to worship at the alters of Walmart, best buy, Apple etc etc etc."Black Friday" marks the beginning of the Christmas shopping season. Stores compete for customers by offering special sales on that day, because during the entire sales year for many retail businesses, this is the time in which their bottom lines finally ease out the "red" (meaning loss) and into the "black", meaning they will now be able to continue to stay in business, which means they will be able to continue to pay their employees and suppliers. Incidentally (for you blathering socialists who regard "profit" as a 4-letter word), they are also then going to be able to pay income taxes (which is paid on profit, not loss), and will permit them to pay their property taxes and sales taxes, which will keep the poor government employees in their jobs, too.An economy is not served if the buyers stay home and do not participate in free economic exchanges. Free exchange is in fact what keeps you in your job and able to feed, clothe and house your family. If everyone stayed home on Black Friday -- especially this one, where Obama has just been reelected -- then guess what would happen to any nascent recovery due to the uncertainties of the election being over? It would strangle it in its cradle, that's what it would do. Businesses which had risked capital and credit to buy stock for the day would cancel future orders, release seasonal staff, and tone down their advertising. It would signal to all and sundry that the people were afraid to spend their money, and it would be interpreted as a foreboding for a continuing recession, and possibly a new depression. The economy, already shaky, would tank.I'll bet you'd love that.I think we all will have to answer for our stewardship and what we did with our monies. So much of American is entrenched and addictively dependant on the idol worship materialism, and we Americans just gobble it down without thought. We are told in essence that we we can spend and borrow our way to the gluttonis feats we once had. we are never told that we should reevalute our concepts of self identity in terms of material things."Idol worship materialism." Oh, please. I have an idea. You should move to someplace where people don't have ambitions of buying the latest iPod or widescreen TV. Where they instead worry constantly about where their next meal is going to come from. Where their neighbors in the next town might come by the next night to raid their village because they belong to a different branch of the same religion. In such places there is no materialism because people are simply grateful to live. I'm sure you would love it. As to answering for our stewardships and what we did with our monies? I think we have a good idea of what the Lord thought the man who buried his talent instead of risking it in the free market. Outer darkness.
Stargazer Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) Riddle me this... if all the money spent on Black Friday,was instead donated to homeless shelters,would there still be the same number of shelters next year?There'd be more shelters because the economy would tank and unemployment would soar even higher than it is already. Not to mention the fact that if a billion dollars showed up at homeless shelters they would now be able to feed the homeless filet mignon, and everyone would show up. Edited November 24, 2012 by Stargazer 1
bluebell Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 Riddle me this... if all the money spent on Black Friday,was instead donated to homeless shelters,would there still be the same number of shelters next year?It would probably depend on what the economic impact would be of most retail stores remaining in the red for the year.
thesometimesaint Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 The few loss leaders on Black Fridays would be of less importance if customers spread their purchases out over the entire year, or at least several months. Plus we don't have to deal with the crowds.http://occupyamerica.crooksandliars.com/diane-sweet/wal-marts-black-friday-2012
Wants2know Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 I went shopping on Black Friday for the first time ever this year. My sister and I went together. It was much more civilized than I thought it would be, and I now have most of the shopping done and saved a ton of money! Other than the sleep deprivation, I really enjoyed it. I don't think participating has anything to do with being LDS or not. It's not shopping on Sunday…. and will probably save me from taking time away from my family over the next few weekends…
Calm Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 and will probably save me from taking time away from my family over the next few weekends…Big plus that one....
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 Just interested in hearing what people think about Black Friday. Is it a good thing for a Latter-day Saint to participate in?When in doubt hide in your room on this must unholiest of days.
Calm Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 When in doubt hide in your room on this must unholiest of days. I thought that was Halloween.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 I thought that was Halloween. It depends on who gets trampled more.
wenglund Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) There'd be more shelters because the economy would tank and unemployment would soar even higher than it is already. Not to mention the fact that if a billion dollars showed up at homeless shelters they would now be able to feed the homeless filet mignon, and everyone would show up.Good to see that someone understand the principle of the invisible hand. As strange as it may seem, and in spite of people's bests intents, mindless compassion in our culture has inadvertently and increasingly incentivized handouts and encourage an unsustainable taker society.Thanks, -Wade Englund- Edited November 24, 2012 by wenglund 1
Stargazer Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 Good to see that someone understand the principle of the invisible hand. As strange as it may seem, and in spite of people's bests intents, mindless compassion in our culture has inadvertently and increasingly incentivized handouts and encourage an unsustainable taker society.Thanks, -Wade Englund-Yes, and it is very unfortunate that so few understand the principles underlying the Invisible Hand, which include the Law of Unintended Consequences and the Law of Supply and Demand.Unintended Consequences -- giving money to a "homeless" person who shows up day after day at a given intersection may help him temporarily, but it also incentivizes him to park himself day after day in that location. In short you are paying him to stand there; it's his new job. Also known as Supply and Demand. You demand that he stay there, by means of paying him, and he supplies you with his presence. At least until you stop paying him.
Recommended Posts