Duncan Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 Don't throw virtual potatoes at me but as a Canadian I couldn't even tell you one US Founding Father or heck even Canada's founding fathers, other then a local guy named Louis Riel. Anyways, So we all know the story of how Pres. Woodruff saw in Vision the Founding fathers requesting their work be done. I have read though that some had already had their work done, so if this is legit, why would they come back to visit Pres. Woodruff and request it? why the need to get baptized twice or endowed twice? I am refraining from putting a joke in here but I like Americans so I will not do that!
theplains Posted November 22, 2012 Posted November 22, 2012 For those interested in the source, see the ldsces section. I suppose they were baptized twice because thefirst time (by a non-LDS Church) was invalid (non-authorized).Regards,Jim
ksfisher Posted November 22, 2012 Posted November 22, 2012 All had been baptized before, some twice. I read an article on this awhile back, but cannot remember where to find it at the moment. If I remember correctly all had been baptized and confirmed previously, but none had been endowed. While in the end the baptisms were not necessary, it did lead to their endowments being completed.
blackstrap Posted November 22, 2012 Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) I wonder if this is where the idea came from that we can do work for famous people not of our lineage. Edited November 22, 2012 by blackstrap
ksfisher Posted November 22, 2012 Posted November 22, 2012 I wonder if this is where the idea that we can do work for famous people not of our lineage.I think that it was after someone being baptized for Elvis requested a sequined jumpsuit that the policy changed. 2
volgadon Posted November 22, 2012 Posted November 22, 2012 Don't throw virtual potatoes at me but as a Canadian I couldn't even tell you one US Founding Father or heck even Canada's founding fathers, other then a local guy named Louis Riel.You are in his neck of the woods? How cool.
Duncan Posted November 22, 2012 Author Posted November 22, 2012 You are in his neck of the woods? How cool.YUP!!!!! other Canadians may not think so but! 1
blackstrap Posted November 22, 2012 Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) Good ol' Louis. Father of Manitoba, member of Parliament(sorta),nut case, preacher,prophet,traitor,prisoner,messiah,... truly a man for all reasons.Wonder if anyone has done his 'work' yet. If not,Duncan,check your geneology. Edited November 22, 2012 by blackstrap 2
Duncan Posted November 22, 2012 Author Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) Good ol' Louis. Father of Manitoba, member of Parliament(sorta),nut case, preacher,prophet,traitor,prisoner,messiah,... truly a man for all reasons.Wonder if anyone has done his 'work' yet. If not,Duncan,check your geneology.I was wondering when you would comment! haha! he is like the Ralph Klein of his day, no one really knows how to take him-We have Louis Riel day around here also known as 'Traitor day" by some! He isn't in my family history as I am bright white except on sundays in the summer Edited November 22, 2012 by Duncan 3
blackstrap Posted November 22, 2012 Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) Yep,Ralph was such a rebel in politics that he ... ACTUALLY BALANCED THE FREAKING BUDGET and GOT RID OF THE DEBT.Too bad his successors can't maintain that revolutionary mind set.!!!( rant off ) Edited November 22, 2012 by blackstrap 1
splendidsun Posted November 22, 2012 Posted November 22, 2012 See Brian Stuy's "Wilford Woodruff's vision of the signers of the Declaration of Independence" in either the JMH or Taysom's Mormon Studies reader. 2
Duncan Posted November 22, 2012 Author Posted November 22, 2012 Yep,Ralph was such a rebel in politics that he ... ACTUALLY BALANCED THE FREAKING BUDGET and GOT RID OF THE DEBT.Too bad his successors can't maintain that revolutionary mind set.!!!( rant off )ah you're the best! I think Louis Riel was needed in 1870 but the uprising in 1885...actually I have him to thank for some my family coming here in 1871, cheap land and plenty of it!
inquiringmind Posted November 22, 2012 Posted November 22, 2012 All had been baptized before, some twice. I read an article on this awhile back, but cannot remember where to find it at the moment. If I remember correctly all had been baptized and confirmed previously, but none had been endowed. While in the end the baptisms were not necessary, it did lead to their endowments being completed.Do you mean all the Presidents, all the signers of the declaration of independence, or all the prominent persons that WW saw in his vision (which would include mrs. Washington, John Wesley, and a lot of others I can't think of right now)?Also, what exactly is endowment, and how important is it?If you've been baptized, confirmed, and sealed in the Temple, would you still need endowment to make it all the way home?
thesometimesaint Posted November 22, 2012 Posted November 22, 2012 The Endowment is the giving of the power/knowledge necessary to make it all the way home. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted November 22, 2012 Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) ... Also, what exactly is endowment, and how important is it?If you've been baptized, confirmed, and sealed in the Temple, would you still need endowment to make it all the way home?The Endowment is the giving of the power/knowledge necessary to make it all the way home.And one must be baptized, confirmed, and (if male) have received the Melchizedek Priesthood before being endowed and sealed. (These ordinances, like the Endowment and Sealing, are performed by proxy in the Temple for those who did not receive them while living.) Edited November 22, 2012 by Kenngo1969
Calm Posted November 22, 2012 Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) http://www.lds.org/liahona/1988/08/preparing-for-your-temple-endowment?lang=engThe Meaning of the EndowmentFollowing baptism, we are endowed with the gift of the Holy Ghost. But a temple endowment is more than this. It is a series of covenants we make with the Father to live a life of chastity and virtue, to sacrifice our selfish desires in his service to our fellowmen to build up his kingdom; and he, in turn, promises us protection and blessings in this life and greater blessings and glory in eternity.President Brigham Young said: “Let me give you a definition in brief. Your endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the house of the Lord, which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels.” (Discourses of Brigham Young, selected by John A. Widtsoe, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1941, page 416.)Through this ordinance, worthy Saints can be endowed with power from on high to withstand the evils of the world. In it they are given instruction about the creation of the earth. They learn about the transgression of Adam and Eve and their expulsion from the Garden of Eden. They are taught of the plan of redemption, the apostasy and restoration of the gospel. Both the method of instruction and the content given them in the temple are distinctive and deserve a lifetime of regular temple worship and study.“The temple ceremonies are designed by a wise Heavenly Father who has revealed them to us in these last days as a guide and protection throughout our lives that you and I might not [lose the opportunity for] exaltation in the Celestial kingdom where God and Christ dwell.” (Harold B. Lee, Decisions for Successful Living, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1973, page 141.)Just as baptism is an ordinance essential to our salvation, the endowment is essential to our exaltation. Moreover, it is an individual ordinance that must be performed before we receive the sealing ordinance of eternal marriage.http://www.lds.org/manual/endowed-from-on-high-temple-preparation-seminar-teachers-manual/lesson-4-receiving-temple-ordinances-and-covenants?lang=enghttp://www.lds.org/general-conference/2001/04/personal-preparation-for-temple-blessings?lang=engFor pictures inside temples see: http://store.lds.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product3_715839595_10557_21001_-1__214504This can be downloaded. Edited November 22, 2012 by calmoriah 1
DavidB Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) I was wondering when you would comment! haha! he is like the Ralph Klein of his day, no one really knows how to take him-We have Louis Riel day around here also known as 'Traitor day" by some! He isn't in my family history as I am bright white except on sundays in the summerGiven that he died over 100 years ago, you do not need to related to him. As I understand it, the rule is you must be related if the person died within 95 years. Edited November 23, 2012 by DavidB
Duncan Posted November 23, 2012 Author Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) Given that he died over 100 years ago, you do need to related to him. As I understand it, the rule is you must be related if the person died within 95 years.I never said or implied that I was related to Louis Riel! what I did say was that he is a local hero and lived here or has root here, but not related to me. Some parts of Canada, like where Blackstrap live, dispute his "founding father" status. I threw in Ralph Klein alocal Alberta hero who is also controversial but in a different way, kinda like a Canadian Billy Carter Edited November 23, 2012 by Duncan
DavidB Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 Typo error.Since it has been over 100 years since his death any temple worthy male can be the proxy.
inquiringmind Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 All had been baptized before, some twice. I read an article on this awhile back, but cannot remember where to find it at the moment. If I remember correctly all had been baptized and confirmed previously, but none had been endowed. While in the end the baptisms were not necessary, it did lead to their endowments being completed.Do you mean all the Presidents, all the signers of the declaration of independence, or all the prominent persons that WW saw in his vision (which would include mrs. Washington, John Wesley, Columbus, and a lot of others I can't think of right now)?
Sevenbak Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 Don't throw virtual potatoes at me but as a Canadian I couldn't even tell you one US Founding Father or heck even Canada's founding fathers, other then a local guy named Louis Riel. Anyways, So we all know the story of how Pres. Woodruff saw in Vision the Founding fathers requesting their work be done. I have read though that some had already had their work done, so if this is legit, why would they come back to visit Pres. Woodruff and request it? why the need to get baptized twice or endowed twice? I am refraining from putting a joke in here but I like Americans so I will not do that!As I understand it, the issue was the endowment, not baptism. I'm also pretty sure I read somewhere legit that 2 of the spirits kept after him until he had done the 2nd anointing for them, I believe it was G. Washington and Columbus. 1
Nevo Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 Do you mean all the Presidents, all the signers of the declaration of independence, or all the prominent persons that WW saw in his vision (which would include mrs. Washington, John Wesley, Columbus, and a lot of others I can't think of right now)?Brian Stuy's JMH article that splendidsun mentioned can be found online here (unfortunately, you have to download the whole issue to get it). Stuy notes, as ksfisher stated, that "in fact, every signer of the Declaration of Independence had been baptized by proxy before Woodruff performed that ordinance in the St. George Temple in 1877" (70-71).
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